USPS Heading For Default

[Caligari]

http://news.yahoo.com/usps-posts-3-1...145707721.html
"The U.S. Postal Service posted a net loss of $3.1 billion in its third quarter and warned again it would default on payments to the federal government if Congress did not step in."

[L-Pink]

Try delivering 3 days a week.

[Harmon]

They can thank email and social networking for that

[Harmon]

Try delivering 3 days a week.

Seriously. I check my mail at the PO Box like once a week if I am lucky.

[Caligari]

They can thank email and social networking for that

you're right USPS should be downsized, they really should go to 5 days a week delivery anyway. the amount of paper wasted on junk mail is staggering, i wouldn't mind seeing a tax on that crap.

[Sly]

you're right USPS should be downsized, they really should go to 5 days a week delivery anyway. the amount of paper wasted on junk mail is staggering, i wouldn't mind seeing a tax on that crap.

I wonder what percentage of their revenue is generated from junk mail.

Seriously, the world has changed. The mail system had a great run and performed a great function for many, many years. It's time to adapt to 2011. FedEx, UPS, and a handful of others seem to be doing okay with their parcel service. The USPS needs to make the adjustments necessary to stay afloat and Congress needs to stop blocking USPS requests to adjust service.

I get no "mail" that couldn't be completely electronic.

[Agent 488]

a large part of their revenue is from junk mail. like most of it. since the recession is sucking i'm sure there is a huge drop in mailings, thus the shortfall.

[KillerK]

I wonder what percentage of their revenue is generated from junk mail.

Seriously, the world has changed. The mail system had a great run and performed a great function for many, many years. It's time to adapt to 2011. FedEx, UPS, and a handful of others seem to be doing okay with their parcel service. The USPS needs to make the adjustments necessary to stay afloat and Congress needs to stop blocking USPS requests to adjust service.

I get no "mail" that couldn't be completely electronic.

I guess you never sell anything online like a Xbox 360 game. Try shipping that via ups and see that it takes 5-10 days to get to the location plus the cost is $10. Where shipping via the mail is like $2 and takes 3-4 days.

[Sly]

I guess you never sell anything online like a Xbox 360 game. Try shipping that via ups and see that it takes 5-10 days to get to the location plus the cost is $10. Where shipping via the mail is like $2 and takes 3-4 days.

I do use USPS for parcels, often. As I said, it needs to change.

[StinkyPink]

I wonder what percentage of their revenue is generated from junk mail.

Seriously, the world has changed. The mail system had a great run and performed a great function for many, many years. It's time to adapt to 2011. FedEx, UPS, and a handful of others seem to be doing okay with their parcel service. The USPS needs to make the adjustments necessary to stay afloat and Congress needs to stop blocking USPS requests to adjust service.

I get no "mail" that couldn't be completely electronic.

Not everybody has internet, and it is not available everywhere, and it is not free.

I mean I see how someone who works online and everyone they do business with is online and the folks he sells his products/services to are also online, could think that 'everyone' is online... but they are not, nor will they ever be.

[Sly]

Not everybody has internet, and it is not available everywhere, and it is not free.

I mean I see how someone who works online and everyone they do business with is online and the folks he sells his products/services to are also online, could think that 'everyone' is online... but they are not, nor will they ever be.

So instead of making changes to adapt to the new world, you suggest the USPS continue running as is while losing billions of dollars a year?

[kane]

From what I understand they have two major problems. First, between email, online payments and automatic deposit/withdraw many people just don't use the mail anymore. I don't remember when the last time I actually mailed something other than a Netflix DVD was.

Their second problem is that they have a ton of unfunded pensions. From what understand a normal company that offers you a 401K or some kind retirement sets that money aside over the years to pay for the retirement/pension when that person gets old enough to draw it. The USPS (and many government agencies) don't do that. The person retires and starts drawing their pension and it is just another bill that they now have to pay. I read a while back that they USPS has somewhere in the area of 4-5 billion dollars worth of unfunded pensions. All those baby boomers who got jobs working for them are now retiring and drawing pensions at the same time people are stopping using the service.

Those unfunded pensions are likely the reason nobody would buy the USPS from the government and privatize it because they could never make a profit owing all that ongoing debt.

[brassmonkey]

3 days a week wont cut it improve the fucking service and people will buy it. get rid of the drunks druggies and lazy muther fuckers.

[woj]

Their second problem is that they have a ton of unfunded pensions. From what understand a normal company that offers you a 401K or some kind retirement sets that money aside over the years to pay for the retirement/pension when that person gets old enough to draw it. The USPS (and many government agencies) don't do that. The person retires and starts drawing their pension and it is just another bill that they now have to pay. I read a while back that they USPS has somewhere in the area of 4-5 billion dollars worth of unfunded pensions. All those baby boomers who got jobs working for them are now retiring and drawing pensions at the same time people are stopping using the service.

Those unfunded pensions are likely the reason nobody would buy the USPS from the government and privatize it because they could never make a profit owing all that ongoing debt.

it's basically a disguised ponzi scheme...

[GatorB]

3 days a week wont cut it improve the fucking service and people will buy it. get rid of the drunks druggies and lazy muther fuckers.

There's nothing to "improve". Do you write letters? Nope. e-mail, text messaging etc. Do you pay bills in the mail? Nope online payments. Why pay 44 cents to send a letter when I can send an e-mail for FREE and it will get there MUCH faster. I bet if it wasn't for Netflix sending DVDs in the mail the USPS would be even worse off. Oh but wait Netflix is moving towards streaming delivery.

There no need for 6 day a week delivery. The USPS wants to go to 5 days a week but needs congress's approval. They're to busy complaining about deficits( ironically ) and going on vacation to address a $3 bil issue. They also want to close many smaller post offices but once again needs approval by Congress.

[GatorB]

Not everybody has internet, and it is not available everywhere, and it is not free.

I mean I see how someone who works online and everyone they do business with is online and the folks he sells his products/services to are also online, could think that 'everyone' is online... but they are not, nor will they ever be.

No one is saying get rid of the USPS entirely. The days of needing delivery 6 days a week is long over. Hell I hardly even get junk mail anymore. Besides what can you do on a saturday? Most banks are closed and things like paying utilities can't be done in person on a saturday.

[kane]

There's nothing to "improve". Do you write letters? Nope. e-mail, text messaging etc. Do you pay bills in the mail? Nope online payments. Why pay 44 cents to send a letter when I can send an e-mail for FREE and it will get there MUCH faster. I bet if it wasn't for Netflix sending DVDs in the mail the USPS would be even worse off. Oh but wait Netflix is moving towards streaming delivery.

There no need for 6 day a week delivery. The USPS wants to go to 5 days a week but needs congress's approval. They're to busy complaining about deficits( ironically ) and going on vacation to address a $3 bil issue. They also want to close many smaller post offices but once again needs approval by Congress.

A few years back I sold a lot of stuff on ebay so I spent a lot of time at the post office. The people working there told me that the Netflix and Ebay sales were two of the biggest things they had now and without them they would be screwed. They have actually done a lot of stuff to streamline and make doing mass shipping with them a lot easier.

[dyna mo]

we owe that debt to ourselves so we can just cancel it out, you know, the ron paul way.

[kane]

it's basically a disguised ponzi scheme...

Exactly. You retire, but they have no money set aside to pay the pension you earned. They hire someone to take your place and start paying your pension and now they are basically paying two salaries for one worker. From there it just builds and builds until it collapses on itself.

[L-Pink]

Seriously. I check my mail at the PO Box like once a week if I am lucky.

You only receive bills once a month, then pay them a week later.

[kane]

To me the USPS is going to become one of those things where we as a country have to decide if the value and service it provides is worth the cost. It likely is never going to be solvent again so we have to decide if we are willing to spend the money to keep it going so we can have mail delivery or if eventually we will close it down and let other private companies take over.

[dyna mo]

Exactly. You retire, but they have no money set aside to pay the pension you earned. They hire someone to take your place and start paying your pension and now they are basically paying two salaries for one worker. From there it just builds and builds until it collapses on itself.

actually, this all happened when congress raided the usps coffers way back when, usps never recovered. usps ran a tight accounting ship for decades but never truly recovered.

[Sly]

Their second problem is that they have a ton of unfunded pensions. From what understand a normal company that offers you a 401K or some kind retirement sets that money aside over the years to pay for the retirement/pension when that person gets old enough to draw it. The USPS (and many government agencies) don't do that. The person retires and starts drawing their pension and it is just another bill that they now have to pay. I read a while back that they USPS has somewhere in the area of 4-5 billion dollars worth of unfunded pensions. All those baby boomers who got jobs working for them are now retiring and drawing pensions at the same time people are stopping using the service.

I don't know enough about pensions to have a full discussion on them, but the way a 401(k) works is the employer can offer a contribution or a employee match of some sort. So let's say that the employer agrees to contribute a 1% match. This means that if the employee makes $100,000 a year and the employee contributes 1% of their salary to their 401(k), the employer will match that 1% contribution. That match is on the spot, it happens at the same time as the employee contribution. Not 10, 15, 20 years later when the employee retires. The employer really has little to do with the employees retirement aside from that 401(k) contribution.

[Sly]

actually, this all happened when congress raided the usps coffers way back when, usps never recovered. usps ran a tight accounting ship for decades but never truly recovered.

So Congress stole money from the USPS and never gave it back? They have a habit of doing that... so nice of them.

[DWB]

People who work for the post office have big salaries, so do contractors who do work for them. In another life I was an electrician and we did a lot of work for the post office in Dayton and Cincinnati, Ohio, and I don't remember the exact amount but it was something like $30 an hour (I was 19 years old - woohoo!) + overtime, and my boss was making money per hour no each of us on top of that. Whenever we'd work at a post office we'd work 18 hour days for months on end.

[Agent 488]

how degraded are working people when they see those who make wages that keep up with inflation as "privleged." i guess the brainwashing is complete ...

[potter]

USPS Hasn't turned a profit in what 20 years or something?

[dyna mo]

So Congress stole money from the USPS and never gave it back? They have a habit of doing that... so nice of them.

i can't recall the exact details but congress did send the usps in a downward spiral when it *borrowed* most of its reserves back in the 80s i believe.

[kane]

I don't know enough about pensions to have a full discussion on them, but the way a 401(k) works is the employer can offer a contribution or a employee match of some sort. So let's say that the employer agrees to contribute a 1% match. This means that if the employee makes $100,000 a year and the employee contributes 1% of their salary to their 401(k), the employer will match that 1% contribution. That match is on the spot, it happens at the same time as the employee contribution. Not 10, 15, 20 years later when the employee retires. The employer really has little to do with the employees retirement aside from that 401(k) contribution.

This is how it is supposed to work. You and your employer set aside money that is invested or gains interest over the life of your employment with them. When you then retire that money is in an account. For a while the USPS did that, but some of that money was taken for other thing by the government and then they just got away from it completely. At one point they actually transferred 30 billion in unfunded pension debt to the general federal employee pension fund so it could be paid on the federal level. They were also given a $15 billion line of credit and it still looks like they have around $50 billion in unfunded pension costs and that number is growing by as much as $4-$5 billion per year.

Each year that passes they get further and further behind. They will have to change that soon if they ever want to see the light of day again.

[Barry-xlovecam]

This letter has a 65 cent stamp ...

Carnac the Magnificent

[GregE]

how degraded are working people when they see those who make wages that keep up with inflation as "privleged." i guess the brainwashing is complete ...

No shit.

It's all about this "new normal" crap we keep hearing about.