PHP Coders Who Use Zend to Protect Their Source Code

[Babaganoosh]

PHP 5.3 is the current version. It was released back in June of 2009! PHP 5.2 is no longer officially supported. It reached end of life back in January (I think).

I just saw that PHP 5.4 alpha 1 was released a few days ago.

If you encoded your scripts to run under 5.2 with Zend Optimizer, they will not run under 5.3 with Zend Guard. Why aren't more coders staying current? I'm not going to run a version of PHP that has reached EoL just so I can run your script. I've encountered two popular encoded scripts recently that won't run under PHP 5.3.

Seriously, is there some reason why these guys don't try to stay current? Are most of their customers too lazy or apathetic to upgrade?

[V_RocKs]

Most customers are running Mysql 4.x with PHP 5.2 or lower and won't upgrade until a major exploit is released to the public that hacks all installations...

Most programmers don't live by coding the scripts they sell here. So their day job takes up all of their time. The script was usually a way to do something other than "work"... But then their hobby got boring too since it was the same as work... So updating their script is like... work...

[CurrentlySober]

i cant afford php...

[mafia_man]

Zend is a complete waste of time anyway.

Everything can be reversed.

[ottopottomouse]

DeZend makes it pointless.

[Babaganoosh]

Most legit customers don't want to fuck with dezending a script. These are scripts I paid for. I expect them to work. I would really like to use uugallery on the site but there is no php 5.3 support so I might crack that one to make it work. Again, I have a legit license though.

Some of the cheapestadultscripts products don't work either but I can probably live without them.

[borked]

php -v
PHP 5.3.5 (cli) (built: Jan 6 2011 21:42:47)


Really didnt know this incompatibility between zended 5.2 and 5.3. However, for updated and supported software, this is kinda moot. Any dev will have zended versions of his/their script for each php version (private cloud setups allows for all this). I personally support any/all scripts I released for php 5.x. Past customers just have to ask if something isn't compatible.

Of course zend-encoded scripts can be reversed - this is high level coding. However, it still kills 99.9% of thefts.... the courts can take care of the remaining.

[borked]

These are scripts I paid for. I expect them to work. I would really like to use uugallery on the site but there is no php 5.3 support so I might crack that one to make it work. Again, I have a legit license though.

You have a license to run the software - not to own it... What you just said above amounts to somehting similar to "I bought Adobe Photoshop for the PC - now I bought a Mac, so I want that software to run on the Mac - hence I'm going to hack it whichever way I can so it runs as my PC license isn't supported for Mac."

Even if it isn't the same, you agreed to the software license as it was stated - you don't have the right to reverse engineer it simply because the developer stopped supporting a PHP version....

[Brujah]

Please stop buying encoded scripts. It only encourages the author to continue by supporting it.

[amvcdotcom]

Please stop buying encoded scripts. It only encourages the author to continue by supporting it.

I Agree!

[Brujah]

I Agree!

Better discussions on the pros and cons of encoding your scripts in this thread.
http://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=999976

[Babaganoosh]

You have a license to run the software - not to own it... What you just said above amounts to somehting similar to "I bought Adobe Photoshop for the PC - now I bought a Mac, so I want that software to run on the Mac - hence I'm going to hack it whichever way I can so it runs as my PC license isn't supported for Mac."

Even if it isn't the same, you agreed to the software license as it was stated - you don't have the right to reverse engineer it simply because the developer stopped supporting a PHP version....

Then I guess the developer can come and get me. I know they won't though. That would be work.

Now that I think about it, I don't think there was any license agreement with either script so the point is moot.

[fris]

the only reason im running php 5.2 is because the one app thats encoded with zend, hasnt been applied for 5.3, so thats my only drawback.

[Babaganoosh]

the only reason im running php 5.2 is because the one app thats encoded with zend, hasnt been applied for 5.3, so thats my only drawback.

Yep, sounds familiar. It seems crazy to hold back just because someone can't be bothered to reencode their script. One positive that came from this is I just discovered nextgen gallery is superior to uugallery.

Now if I can just figure out how to customize the pages that single images are shown on I am in business.

[Zorgman]

Maybe you should take this up with Zend Technologies Ltd not the programmer.

[Babaganoosh]

Maybe you should take this up with Zend Technologies Ltd not the programmer.

Zend didn't choose to encode the script nor did they choose to not keep up with current technology. If they can't keep up, they shouldn't be encoding their scripts.

[marlboroack]

Php= Philippine Peso Bump for this interesting thread.

[kaori]

Interestingly, I had an early version of 5.2, but the most recent wordpress wouldn't upgrade unless I went to 5.2.14 or greater.
Natnet suggested that I not update to PHP 5.3 and instead, upgraded to a later version of 5.2.

"I have upgraded the server to php 5.2.17. There were a large number of changes in the 5.3 release and many scripts are broken with that release. Please let us know if there is anything else we can do for you."

Good thing, as I have a few zend scripts, including UUGallery.

[Jakez]

Most programmers don't live by coding the scripts they sell here. So their day job takes up all of their time. The script was usually a way to do something other than "work"... But then their hobby got boring too since it was the same as work... So updating their script is like... work...

Lol excellent.

[raymor]

Please stop buying encoded scripts. It only encourages the author to continue by supporting it.

Yep and it really sucks when you need to switch or upgrade a server and the "programmer" is no longer around. Also when a serious buys is discovered and the company that sold it firefly fix it because they lost their programmer or something. It happens all the time. At least, don't make your business DEPENDANT on an encoded script. An encoded contact form is one thing. It can be easily replaced. An encoded CMS is a major headache waiting to happen.

After three well known CMS companies went belly up, leaving their customers stranded, I made an offer to some remaining companies. They could put their source code "in escrow", put away with us, in case anything happened to them. Their customers could still have what they would need to keep running their business long term. None have taken us up on it so far. If some do, that would be a sign to their potential customers that they take the customers business seriously.

The comment that you do not own an encoded script, but have only purchased the right to use it for a little while is telling. It's an admission by one if those companies that indeed that software can be yanked away from you at any time, so you better not depend on it.

[k0nr4d]

Yep and it really sucks when you need to switch or upgrade a server and the "programmer" is no longer around. Also when a serious buys is discovered and the company that sold it firefly fix it because they lost their programmer or something. It happens all the time. At least, don't make your business DEPENDANT on an encoded script. An encoded contact form is one thing. It can be easily replaced. An encoded CMS is a major headache waiting to happen.

After three well known CMS companies went belly up, leaving their customers stranded, I made an offer to some remaining companies. They could put their source code "in escrow", put away with us, in case anything happened to them. Their customers could still have what they would need to keep running their business long term. None have taken us up on it so far. If some do, that would be a sign to their potential customers that they take the customers business seriously.

The comment that you do not own an encoded script, but have only purchased the right to use it for a little while is telling. It's an admission by one if those companies that indeed that software can be yanked away from you at any time, so you better not depend on it.

What constitutes something happening to one of those companies though? Them literally going out of business or them just not replying to emails and support tickets?

[k0nr4d]

BTW the vast majority of people still run php 5.2, because that's what the vast majority of package managers seem to install on servers for some reason. CentOS for instance installs 5.2.17 if you do yum install php.

[Babaganoosh]

BTW the vast majority of people still run php 5.2, because that's what the vast majority of package managers seem to install on servers for some reason. CentOS for instance installs 5.2.17 if you do yum install php.

Really? Still? I figured people were just too lazy to update. apt-get on debian 6 installs 5.3, so does yum on centos 6. I guess there are probably lots of people running older distros though.

[fris]

Yep, sounds familiar. It seems crazy to hold back just because someone can't be bothered to reencode their script. One positive that came from this is I just discovered nextgen gallery is superior to uugallery.

Now if I can just figure out how to customize the pages that single images are shown on I am in business.

hit me up if you need help, ive done this before.

704-299

[k0nr4d]

Really? Still? I figured people were just too lazy to update. apt-get on debian 6 installs 5.3, so does yum on centos 6. I guess there are probably lots of people running older distros though.

Yeah, i'd say at least 3/4ths that I encounter are still on 5.2. Alot of people are running CentOS 5.6, and on that one "yum install php" installs 5.2
You have to do "yum install php53"

[just a punk]

Most customers are running Mysql 4.x with PHP 5.2 or lower and won't upgrade until a major exploit is released to the public that hacks all installations..

That's right. I don't use Zend, but still not ready to encode my scripts as PHP 5.3+ only. I believe my customers won't appreciate such a move

[Babaganoosh]

That's right. I don't use Zend, but still not ready to encode my scripts as PHP 5.3+ only. I believe my customers won't appreciate such a move

Personally if I did encode them I would at least have versions available to accommodate everyone. Programmers who sell compiled code usually have multiple binaries available. I don't know why PHP coders can't. If they can't or won't they shouldn't be encoding their scripts in the first place.

[k0nr4d]

Personally if I did encode them I would at least have versions available to accommodate everyone. Programmers who sell compiled code usually have multiple binaries available. I don't know why PHP coders can't. If they can't or won't they shouldn't be encoding their scripts in the first place.

I didn't check but maybe they'd need to buy a new zend encoder license to encode for 5.3? That could be a big reason too. Programmers aren't really used to having business costs

[just a punk]

Personally if I did encode them I would at least have versions available to accommodate everyone. Programmers who sell compiled code usually have multiple binaries available. I don't know why PHP coders can't. If they can't or won't they shouldn't be encoding their scripts in the first place.

I my case it's a bit different story. Right now my encrypted code works on both PHP <5.3 and >5.3. However if I encode it as 5.3+, it will work on PHP >5.3 only. So I don't see any issue at the current moment.

[blackmonsters]

Personally if I did encode them I would at least have versions available to accommodate everyone. Programmers who sell compiled code usually have multiple binaries available. I don't know why PHP coders can't. If they can't or won't they shouldn't be encoding their scripts in the first place.

No programmer would bother to encode anything if people would stop stealing from them.

Every unencoded script ends up being posted on file sharing sites for free.

The programmer sells 5 copies and 3 days later 300 stolen copies are running on
the net. What's the point of doing all that work? None.

[Babaganoosh]

No programmer would bother to encode anything if people would stop stealing from them.

Every unencoded script ends up being posted on file sharing sites for free.

The programmer sells 5 copies and 3 days later 300 stolen copies are running on
the net. What's the point of doing all that work? None.

Encoding won't stop anyone. You can dezend a script in just a few minutes. Search Google for "nullled scriptname" and you'll usually find whatever you want already decoded.

How many legit customers are scared away by encoded scripts? My new policy is to never buy an encoded script.

The question is which causes a coder to lose more money, piracy or potential legit customers scared off by encoded scripts.

[blackmonsters]

Encoding won't stop anyone. You can dezend a script in just a few minutes. Search Google for "nullled scriptname" and you'll usually find whatever you want already decoded.

How many legit customers are scared away by encoded scripts? My new policy is to never buy an encoded script.

The question is which causes a coder to lose more money, piracy or potential legit customers scared off by encoded scripts.

Stealing/piracy loses more money. Not even close. Please skip the Gideongallery
shit bro.

Sale something and get ripped, then re-read your own quotes.

It's encoded to stop people from stealing.

You say it doesn't work, but it does work for those that don't understand how to beat it.

You are basically telling programmers to "don't bother locking your doors at home,
because a good crook can get in anyway".

And everybody knows that there are more bad crooks than good ones.

[just a punk]

That's funny

[Babaganoosh]

Stealing/piracy loses more money. Not even close. Please skip the Gideongallery
shit bro.

Sale something and get ripped, then re-read your own quotes.

It's encoded to stop people from stealing.

You say it doesn't work, but it does work for those that don't understand how to beat it.

You are basically telling programmers to "don't bother locking your doors at home,
because a good crook can get in anyway".

And everybody knows that there are more bad crooks than good ones.

I'm not talking out of my ass here. You know I used to write and sell software, right? It was written in Perl so there was no easy way to encode it. I had a few hundred licensed domains running my scripts. My scripts did phone home and I did occasionally catch someone running a copy they weren't licensed for. Usually a quick email resulted in them buying the script or removing it from the server. I had to contact the host to deal with it a couple of times. Piracy on those scripts wasn't that big of an issue.

Really though, these encoded scripts can't be run on a current version of PHP. I paid for the scripts. The encoding is preventing a legit customer from using what they paid for and that's fucked up. If they weren't encoded I would still be able to use what I bought.

I am never buying another encoded script...ever. Whoever encodes their software can forget me buying their scripts. That's a guaranteed lost sale. You act like every illegal copy of a script is a lost sale. Most of the people who steal software likely would never purchase anyway.

Zend encoding is not a reliable way to protect code anyway since it can be broken so easily. For instance, core.php from uugallery took me about 2 seconds to crack. How is that protecting anything?

[blackmonsters]

I'm not talking out of my ass here. You know I used to write and sell software, right? It was written in Perl so there was no easy way to encode it. I had a few hundred licensed domains running my scripts. My scripts did phone home and I did occasionally catch someone running a copy they weren't licensed for. Usually a quick email resulted in them buying the script or removing it from the server. I had to contact the host to deal with it a couple of times. Piracy on those scripts wasn't that big of an issue.

Really though, these encoded scripts can't be run on a current version of PHP. I paid for the scripts. The encoding is preventing a legit customer from using what they paid for and that's fucked up. If they weren't encoded I would still be able to use what I bought.

I am never buying another encoded script...ever. Whoever encodes their software can forget me buying their scripts. That's a guaranteed lost sale. You act like every illegal copy of a script is a lost sale. Most of the people who steal software likely would never purchase anyway.

Zend encoding is not a reliable way to protect code anyway since it can be broken so easily. For instance, core.php from uugallery took me about 2 seconds to crack. How is that protecting anything?

Man, I thought you would skip the Gideongallery shit.

You will never convince me that piracy increases sales.

Bottom line : You're in this mess because you bought some fucked up PHP to begin with.

Buy PERL next time and your shit would still be running.

Perl doesn't need an update because they already fixed all their bugs a log time ago.

[Babaganoosh]

Man, I thought you would skip the Gideongallery shit.

You will never convince me that piracy increases sales.

Bottom line : You're in this mess because you bought some fucked up PHP to begin with.

But PERL next time and your shit would still be running.

Perl doesn't need an update because they already fixed all their bugs a log time ago.

I never said or even implied that piracy increases sales. I might be a little slow but I am not retarded.

but yeah, I love Perl. All of my own backend stuff is still in Perl and some Python.

[blackmonsters]

I never said or even implied that piracy increases sales. I might be a little slow but I am not retarded.

but yeah, I love Perl. All of my own backend stuff is still in Perl and some Python.

True, you never said that piracy increased sales.

I'm just saying that programmers who want to sell software are going to try to
protect their creative rights because nobody respects those rights.

And I will add that the argument for decoded software would be best made
by people who access the internet without Microsoft or Apple products.
Because it's all encoded.

So here we are, people are using encoded software to tell other programmers
to stop doing it.

And go broke in the process.

Quit fucking stealing and it will all work out.
Programmers need to raise the price of software to pay for their work since
so many people are stealing and not buying.

The low price of scripts is based on people buying and not stealing.
A $50 script needs to sale for $3000 to fix the theft problem.

Do you want to pay $3000?

If not then encoding is a alternative.

[Sly]

Would it be incorrect to say that a lot of these coders you speak of are no longer actively coding? Are they putting out new product in general? If they don't put out new product, I highly doubt they would care about updating old product. If they are putting out new product, then yes, they they probably should update old product but if the old product isn't really selling anymore, many will probably not care.

[Babaganoosh]

Would it be incorrect to say that a lot of these coders you speak of are no longer actively coding? Are they putting out new product in general? If they don't put out new product, I highly doubt they would care about updating old product. If they are putting out new product, then yes, they they probably should update old product but if the old product isn't really selling anymore, many will probably not care.

One is uugallery. Chariot is a really nice and helpful guy. We've talked about this issue today. He's able to do an ioncube encoded script as well. The other is cheapestadultscripts.com. I can live without those scripts. They were useful back in the splog days so I don't care about them anymore.

I still don't understand the thinking that encoding a script protects it against theft. I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed and I can decode those scripts in seconds. If I were a pirate I'd be posting that code all over the internet.