Music Piracy Dead... Porn Piracy Thriving

[kroncheez]

Ok, maybe music piracy isn't completely dead, there is torrents etc, however to the mainstream population it is. A few months ago I asked an 11 year old kid who lives in my building how him and his friends get their music and he straight up told me "iTunes."

Do you remember when Napster and Limewire were super mainstream and there was a huge war between the music industry and these programs? Now where the fuck are they? Gone. And for whatever reason torrents haven't picked up in the same way.

Now the music industry thrives again with much much less of a hit from piracy.

Now my question is to you, what is stopping the porn industry from doing the same thing? What are the differences between the changes that happened in the music industry and what could potentially happen with the porn industry?

The main differences I see are:

1) there are much more mainstream Tube sites than there were p2p networks like Napster.
2) content producers in porn are willingly uploading their content to the piracy websites.

These are genuine questions, I do not have the answers. I do not even fully understand how p2p in the music industry went from mainstream to dead.

I simply seek to start a discussion about the possibilities of mirroring the changes that took place within the music industry. Is it possible? If so how?

[AdultKing]

Sorry OP, too many false assumptions.

The music industry is still being bled dry by piracy, so doing what the music industry is doing is not a quick cure all.

[kroncheez]

The music industry is still being bled dry by piracy

That's where we disagree.

Ask 4 or 5 of your non-computer-nerd friends where they get their music. Then ask them where they get their porn.

[AdultKing]

That's where we disagree.

Ask 4 or 5 of your non-computer-nerd friends where they get their music. Then ask them where they get their porn.

You can disagree all you like, I've spent the past two years doing nothing but fighting piracy.

The music industry is still being bled dry from Piracy.

[OneHungLo]

That's where we disagree.

Ask 4 or 5 of your non-computer-nerd friends where they get their music. Then ask them where they get their porn.

Anecdotal evidence? c'mon now, the music industry has lost billions and billions due to piracy. I think its like only 30% of music is now paid for.

[kroncheez]

Anecdotal evidence? c'mon now, the music industry has lost billions and billions due to piracy. I think its like only 30% of music is now paid for.

Piracy in music is no longer mainstream. It's reserved for a savvier demographic.

Porn piracy however is extremely mainstream and reserved for people who can type a .com into a web browser (everyone).

Of course the music industry is being hit by piracy... but nowhere on the level of what it was when Napster and Limewire were big, and nowhere on the level of whats happening in the porn industry.

To prove my point, try the experiment I mentioned above. Ask a small number of people (non-computer nerds) where they get their music, then ask them where they get their porn.

[AdultKing]

http://www.aria.com.au/documents/Aus...al11.03.13.pdf

That's the IFPI report from last year.

The OP started this thread on a premise which is simply wrong. It's fine to have discussions about solutions to piracy but useless when you start them with misinformation.

[kroncheez]

http://www.aria.com.au/documents/Aus...al11.03.13.pdf

That's the IFPI report from last year.

The OP started this thread on a premise which is simply wrong. It's fine to have discussions about solutions to piracy but useless when you start them with misinformation.

I do not need to read a 36 page australian brochure to see the difference between piracy in music and piracy in porn. To me it's obvious with a little questioning of the mainstream public.

[AdultKing]

I do need to read a 36 page australian brochure to see the difference between piracy in music and piracy in porn. To me it's obvious with a little questioning of the mainstream public.

Well it's a good thing you're not fighting piracy then, because you'd be hopeless at it.

For a start the IFPI is UK based.

[kane]

Piracy in music is no longer mainstream. It's reserved for a savvier demographic.

Porn piracy however is extremely mainstream and reserved for people who can type a .com into a web browser (everyone).

Of course the music industry is being hit by piracy... but nowhere on the level of what it was when Napster and Limewire were big, and nowhere on the level of whats happening in the porn industry.

To prove my point, try the experiment I mentioned above. Ask a small number of people (non-computer nerds) where they get their music, then ask them where they get their porn.

While music piracy may be down, it is still alive and well. Go to youtube and do searches for band's full albums. You might be surprised at what you find. I'm sure some acts and labels don't care if their full albums are up there, but I'm pretty sure there are plenty that do.

For example, Lorde's debut album has sold around 1.3 million copies worldwide. The full album on youtube has around 700,000 views. Again, maybe her label doesn't care if it is up there. She is a breaking your artist and that exposure can help. But, there are also many labels that just get tired of playing the whack-a-mole that is constantly trying to find and remove stuff.

With just about any major artists the day their full album comes out (and before that if it was leaked at all) you will be able to get it for free on youtube.

[kroncheez]

While music piracy may be down, it is still alive and well. Go to youtube and do searches for band's full albums. You might be surprised at what you find. I'm sure some acts and labels don't care if their full albums are up there, but I'm pretty sure there are plenty that do.

For example, Lorde's debut album has sold around 1.3 million copies worldwide. The full album on youtube has around 700,000 views. Again, maybe her label doesn't care if it is up there. She is a breaking your artist and that exposure can help. But, there are also many labels that just get tired of playing the whack-a-mole that is constantly trying to find and remove stuff.

With just about any major artists the day their full album comes out (and before that if it was leaked at all) you will be able to get it for free on youtube.

The difference is people don't want to sit at their computer everytime they want to hear an album they like. They want to hear it on their headphones in the street, in their car stereo etc.

When you want to beat off you don't need to download it to go beat off on the subway, its all used behind closed doors anyway. And when they come back to the site the next day, the same video is still sitting there.

[Robbie]

kroncheez, the main difference between porn vs music or hollywood movies being pirated is:
The Govt. actually goes after mainstream piracy and courts actually are sympathetic to the Music Industry and Hollywood.

When it comes to porn? The Govt. is GLAD we are getting destroyed and so are the courts.

If you pirate a Hollywood movie or an album, you would know that there is a possibility you could get into trouble.

If you pirate a porn movie? You get a high-five from your buddies and don't have to worry at all about getting in trouble.

Plus when it's all sitting there on tube sites with full scenes by the tens of thousands...it's OBVIOUSLY free.

You didn't see the music industry putting up sites like Napster themselves.

But people in our industry do just that. Pornhub is FULL of stolen full scenes of porn.
And then Mansef/Manwin/MindGeek also hire a team to dmca Brazzers videos down from other pirate sites.
And to top it all off...the very companies who get their shit stolen and put up on Pornhub, then turn around and PAY Pornhub for the traffic that their own stolen scenes are generating!

Can you imagine a band paying Napster back in the day to give away their own music in the hopes that 1 in 10,000,000 MIGHT buy the album?

It's called cutting your own throat.

[kane]

The difference is people don't want to sit at their computer everytime they want to hear an album they like. They want to hear it on their headphones in the street, in their car stereo etc.

When you want to beat off you don't need to download it to go beat off on the subway, its all used behind closed doors anyway. And when they come back to the site the next day, the same video is still sitting there.

With two clicks of the mouse you can download a youtube video then copy to your phone/mp3 player. Also, with various apps these days you can access youtube from pretty much anywhere.

[mineistaken]

With two clicks of the mouse you can download a youtube video then copy to your phone/mp3 player. Also, with various apps these days you can access youtube from pretty much anywhere.

One thing to consider - youtube quality is not good enough to listen and enjoy music. Yes, people burn mp3s from youtube videos but they are still not satisfied with the quality.
While speaking about porn tubes - sound/video quality is not that crucial for most viewers.

[AdultKing]

While there are hundreds upon hundreds of sites that people can frequent to download 0day music at a click of a mouse and the music industry is haemorrhaging cash due to piracy it's not even remotely possible to declare music piracy dead.

The OP obviously has little understanding of the extent of the piracy eco systems involved in illegal music distribution.

[kane]

One thing to consider - youtube quality is not good enough to listen and enjoy music. Yes, people burn mp3s from youtube videos but they are still not satisfied with the quality.
While speaking about porn tubes - sound/video quality is not that crucial for most viewers.

For some people that is likely true. However, like I said above, there are full albums that have hundreds of thousands of views. Clearly there are plenty of people who are just fine with the quality.

[kane]

Just as an update. To humor myself I went to Billboard's website to see what the Top 15 albums on the charts are right now. You can easily find 14 of of the 15 full albums on youtube. The 15th is one of those Now music collections so it might be there, but it is all singles that are widely available even if the full album isn't.

What is funny to me is that with some of these albums they also have deluxe editions that are only sold in certain stores or are only available in specific ways and those deluxe versions are also available.

[Sly]

That's where we disagree.

Ask 4 or 5 of your non-computer-nerd friends where they get their music. Then ask them where they get their porn.

Spotify and PornHub.

Spotify/Pandora/etc are the new leaches. Musicians were probably better off with rampant theft as opposed to the ease of streaming services for $10 a month.

[ITraffic]

musicians make pennies compared what they used to. it took awhile, but the quality ov music is now declining because the incentives aren`t there any more. artists will just develop games or apps or whatever now.

[brassmonkey]

Sorry OP, too many false assumptions.

The music industry is still being bled dry by piracy, so doing what the music industry is doing is not a quick cure all.

maybe if they don't over price the value people won't download copies

[AmeliaG]

Not sure which bbcode is for embedding videos from YouTube, but I think this answers the question of what the results of music piracy are. These guys have AWESOME swag and they are easy on the eyes.

http://youtu.be/4bEDM4bsfWg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bEDM4bsfWg

So what are the secondary merch and touring products adult should sell?

[Robbie]

So what are the secondary merch and touring products adult should sell?

There is none for the producers.

Now the actual entertainer/performers in porn can and do profit from piracy.

Makes them more "famous". So they get more money dancing in strip clubs, escorting, and doing live cams.

That's about the only analogy I can see for the porn industry.

Unless you got a group of 4 or 5 girls together, shot a ton of super hot hardcore movies with them, gave the movies away for absolutely free on the net...and then personally took them on "tour" as a Feature Package to strip clubs in cities across the world.

Then you could do all the things that feature dancers used to do...have a "gimmick table" (or swag as people call it) to sell signed 8x10's, charge guys to take pics with the girls, etc. (and of course I'm sure the girls would be doing some extracurricular "work" after hours as well).

Even at that...it wouldn't make the kind of money that rock stars do with merchandising.
But it would damn sure be as big of a headache as touring with a rock band! lol

I could just imagine the nightmare of alcohol and pills that would turn into.

No, the porn industry is supposed to sell...PORN.
That's the insanity of piracy and giving away full scenes for traffic to nowhere.

[AdultKing]

maybe if they don't over price the value people won't download copies

That's like saying you think a particular TV is too expensive so just go and steal it instead.

Copyright owners have the sole rights to determine who can purchase their content and on what terms. If people think it's overpriced that's no excuse for them to steal it.

[blackmonsters]

It's easier to spot copyright infringement for music and mainstream movies than it is for porn.

Porn has a system of plenty of content posted on affiliate sites and most of those sites are NOT violators.
No such system for mainstream.

[signupdamnit]

kroncheez, the main difference between porn vs music or hollywood movies being pirated is:
The Govt. actually goes after mainstream piracy and courts actually are sympathetic to the Music Industry and Hollywood.

When it comes to porn? The Govt. is GLAD we are getting destroyed and so are the courts.

If you pirate a Hollywood movie or an album, you would know that there is a possibility you could get into trouble.

If you pirate a porn movie? You get a high-five from your buddies and don't have to worry at all about getting in trouble.

Plus when it's all sitting there on tube sites with full scenes by the tens of thousands...it's OBVIOUSLY free.

You didn't see the music industry putting up sites like Napster themselves.

But people in our industry do just that. Pornhub is FULL of stolen full scenes of porn.
And then Mansef/Manwin/MindGeek also hire a team to dmca Brazzers videos down from other pirate sites.
And to top it all off...the very companies who get their shit stolen and put up on Pornhub, then turn around and PAY Pornhub for the traffic that their own stolen scenes are generating!

Can you imagine a band paying Napster back in the day to give away their own music in the hopes that 1 in 10,000,000 MIGHT buy the album?

It's called cutting your own throat.

+1 Pretty much my thoughts on it as well. The only addition I have to make is to point out that since the people in the top of our industry seem to condone the piracy (or even be pirates themselves) it is no wonder there is little chance of the government helping us. You do not see AVN and XBIZ for example taking a hardline anti-pirate approach. Instead often the pirates give the keynote speeches and sometimes they are able to get incriminating posts by others removed.

In fact there is a case for saying piracy was used as a method to gain a monopoly or near monopoly in the industry. Thousands and thousands of people who were competition (including affiliates) were pushed out largely as a result of the piracy. One company in particular bought up most of the others for pennies on the dollar. They are starting to fail now IMO but it's clear what was happening.

[signupdamnit]

Not sure which bbcode is for embedding videos from YouTube, but I think this answers the question of what the results of music piracy are. These guys have AWESOME swag and they are easy on the eyes.

http://youtu.be/4bEDM4bsfWg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bEDM4bsfWg

So what are the secondary merch and touring products adult should sell?

You were close: [ y o u t u b e ] 4bEDM4bsfWg [ / y o u t u b e ]

[mineistaken]

For some people that is likely true. However, like I said above, there are full albums that have hundreds of thousands of views. Clearly there are plenty of people who are just fine with the quality.

For listening via youtube of course it is ok, I was talking about burning songs into mp3 player for off line listening, or making CD for your car it is not enough for most.
Different thing - youtube is rarely used for "real" music listening. Rather than just getting to know the songs etc. Maybe before buying or "torrenting" real mp3 quality.
I mean would you burn mp3s from youtube quality? You might but you would still have that thing in your mind that you have crapy quality and for music quality is far far far far far far far more important than for porn scenes.

2 VERY different things:

If people want pirate porn they just go to some tube. If they want to pirate music it is not enough to go to some tube. Very different things.

[jigg]

why pirate music when there's VEVO.com, VEVO on Youtube, Pandora, Rdio, iTunes radio where you can watch and listen to almost any music for free free with ads or for dirt cheap with no limits, even build your own radio?

[brassmonkey]

That's like saying you think a particular TV is too expensive so just go and steal it instead.

Copyright owners have the sole rights to determine who can purchase their content and on what terms. If people think it's overpriced that's no excuse for them to steal it.

bullshit! music is a fucking copy! you know business right? its always marked up 300%+ STFU

[kane]

For listening via youtube of course it is ok, I was talking about burning songs into mp3 player for off line listening, or making CD for your car it is not enough for most.
Different thing - youtube is rarely used for "real" music listening. Rather than just getting to know the songs etc. Maybe before buying or "torrenting" real mp3 quality.
I mean would you burn mp3s from youtube quality? You might but you would still have that thing in your mind that you have crapy quality and for music quality is far far far far far far far more important than for porn scenes.

2 VERY different things:

If people want pirate porn they just go to some tube. If they want to pirate music it is not enough to go to some tube. Very different things.

The gear you have also plays a big role in it. If you have some crappy, low quality headphones you likely won't be able to tell the difference between a low bitrate rip and a very high quality recording. If you have higher quality headphones (or speakers) you can.

I just used a free online ripper to rip a song from youtube and it had nearly the same bitrate as a typical song you would get from iTunes. Obviously there are many other variables. The quality of the sound in the youtube video being one of the major ones.

To me the people who are real audiophiles and huge music fans that have nice headphones and speakers aren't going to bother ripping songs from places like youtube. Like you said they may use it to find new artists or preview stuff before they buy it, but I still think there are plenty of people who would rather have it for free than pay for it.

If I'm a cheap bastard I can do exactly like you said. I can use youtube to find something new then use a torrent to download. These days it is fast and easy.

As I said before I think Spotify, Pandora and other streaming services along with things like iTunes and Amazon have curbed music piracy, but I think it is still alive and doing very well.

[WDF]

One thing to consider - youtube quality is not good enough to listen and enjoy music. Yes, people burn mp3s from youtube videos but they are still not satisfied with the quality.
While speaking about porn tubes - sound/video quality is not that crucial for most viewers.

Several popular sites on the net allow the HQ YouTube/VEVO/Etc. streams to be downloaded.

Conversion software is available for free online that will provide CD quality or better MP3 and FLAC copies.

Music Piracy is very much alive though.

Walk down Music Row in Nashville and ask anyone you meet if music piracy is still a problem.

Discussion is good

You need to remember the movie and music industries organized efforts are massive and expensive.
I just do not see the kind of organization and support needed to carry the same type of effort.

There are many other factors that need to be addressed also.

There are support businesses that do business with pirates that everyone seems to forget about.

So few understand the money flow resulting from online/digital piracy.

[SilentKnight]

maybe if they don't over price the value people won't download copies

That's like saying you think a particular TV is too expensive so just go and steal it instead.

Copyright owners have the sole rights to determine who can purchase their content and on what terms. If people think it's overpriced that's no excuse for them to steal it.

bullshit! music is a fucking copy! you know business right? its always marked up 300%+ STFU

You truly deserve a special *Biggest Asshat on GFY* award for this one.

[EpicPanda]

2257 creates a problem for making a "porn iTunes". Some people are willing to take the risk (like clips4sale), but it's a legal nightmare.

[ITraffic]

mindgeek is working on a porn itunes.

[InfoGuy]

Not sure which bbcode is for embedding videos from YouTube, but I think this answers the question of what the results of music piracy are. These guys have AWESOME swag and they are easy on the eyes.

http://youtu.be/4bEDM4bsfWg

[*youtube]4bEDM4bsfWg[/*youtube]
[i]remove the *s[/i]

[brassmonkey]

You truly deserve a special *Biggest Asshat on GFY* award for this one.

[Sly]

I'm looking at your website. I see a template that I want, but it's $49. That's ridiculous. It's just a digital copy. You should be listing those for $15, 300% markup and all.

[SilentKnight]

I'm looking at your website. I see a template that I want, but it's $49. That's ridiculous. It's just a digital copy. You should be listing those for $15, 300% markup and all.

Good call.

[AdultKing]

I'm looking at your website. I see a template that I want, but it's $49. That's ridiculous. It's just a digital copy. You should be listing those for $15, 300% markup and all.

According to BrassMonkey even if I think $15 is ridiculous, it's just a copy, you can take it for free.

[RandyRandy]

mindgeek is working on a porn itunes.

PornSync.com came out a few years ago. Pay a monthly subscription, only get HD quality movies. Don't think they're still around, but I liked the idea.

[brassmonkey]

I'm looking at your website. I see a template that I want, but it's $49. That's ridiculous. It's just a digital copy. You should be listing those for $15, 300% markup and all.

say what you want i say what's the truth now im all of the pirates? eat shit

[kane]

say what you want i say what's the truth now im all of the pirates? eat shit

Shouldn't the market determine what something costs? McDonald's is free to charge $50 for a Big Mac, but they know if they did they would be out of business pretty quickly.

If a musician wants to change more for their music than others, they should be allowed to. If you don't want to pay that price for it, you are free to not buy it.

[brassmonkey]

Shouldn't the market determine what something costs? McDonald's is free to charge $50 for a Big Mac, but they know if they did they would be out of business pretty quickly.

If a musician wants to change more for their music than others, they should be allowed to. If you don't want to pay that price for it, you are free to not buy it.

not really up for debate.

[Robbie]

say what you want i say what's the truth now im all of the pirates? eat shit

I don't think there are many artists out there who write music that would agree with your "truth".

You are entitled to your opinion of course. But if YOU were a great songwriter and had people stealing your shit and making money for themselves off of your creativity, you would have a different view of the "truth".

By the way...I don't think you are a "pirate" or anything. I just think that your comment didn't show any respect for the talent, creativity, and many times sacrifices in life that musicians, artists, writers, etc. make to create the different arts that we all enjoy.

[brassmonkey]

I don't think there are many artists out there who write music that would agree with your "truth".

You are entitled to your opinion of course. But if YOU were a great songwriter and had people stealing your shit and making money for themselves off of your creativity, you would have a different view of the "truth".

By the way...I don't think you are a "pirate" or anything. I just think that your comment didn't show any respect for the talent, creativity, and many times sacrifices in life that musicians, artists, writers, etc. make to create the different arts that we all enjoy.

go to the store and buy 10 cd's support the artist

[Robbie]

go to the store and buy 10 cd's support the artist

I would...but what store would I go to? Peaches? That chain is closed. Tower Records? Closed.

Maybe that tiny little section in the back at Walmart or Best Buy?

[ContentPimp]

Now my question is to you, what is stopping the porn industry from doing the same thing? What are the differences between the changes that happened in the music industry and what could potentially happen with the porn industry?

Answer is simple, the music industry united, and together took action.

Porn industry cannot unite, everyone is doing their own shit, and it's not cool to look at porn - publically NO ONE looks at porn. If it had a governing body like the RIAA then there could be joint efforts taken to setup a iTunes like monopoly and feed it via advertising to the mainstream where to get their porn.

But since "no one looks at porn", it's a totally different case.

[daviking]

Since the introduction the iTunes Music Store on April 28, 2003, music sales have plummeted in the United States -- from $11.8 billion in 2003 to $7.1 billion last year. When adjusted for inflation, revenue has been more than halved since Apple launched the iTunes Music Store.

If you compare todays music sales with sales in 1999 you will see that the music industry lost about two thirds of their market.

[ilnjscb]

just for stats:

The Kids Think YouTube Is a Music Service — and They’re Right

music service of a new generation.
Market research firm Nielsen released its latest “Music 360” study this week, bringing a few revelations about how people discover and enjoy music these days - a whopping 64 percent of teens prefer to do their music listening on YouTube — more than on any other medium.

[kane]

Since the introduction the iTunes Music Store on April 28, 2003, music sales have plummeted in the United States -- from $11.8 billion in 2003 to $7.1 billion last year. When adjusted for inflation, revenue has been more than halved since Apple launched the iTunes Music Store.

If you compare todays music sales with sales in 1999 you will see that the music industry lost about two thirds of their market.

I was looking at some sales numbers earlier today and saw that from 1995-2005 the top selling album of the year sold at least 5 million or more copies with some going as high as 9 million. To be 100% accurate there were two that came in at 4.9 million copies sold.

Since 2005 there has been 1 that sold 5 million and 1 that sold 4 million and the rest were all below that.

I know this isn't all due to piracy, it is also because with iTunes the music business became a singles industry. The days of having to buy a full album to get a couple of songs are gone. Now you can just spend a few bucks and get the ones you want.

Piracy does play a role. There are still plenty of people who think $1.00 is too much to pay for a song. Just look at some of the copyright and piracy threads on sites like Torrentfreak and Reddit and you will see what I mean. There is a group of people out there that will never pay. It is almost like they are offended that people want to sell their music.