50 submitters...
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No. I think I started a thread about this a year ago also.....but it was a good time to bring it up again with everyone whining in the GTS thread about the paid partner accounts.Originally posted by FreeHugeMoviessig too bigComment
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there are many more ways to get free traffic than tgps. they are a waste of time to submit to unless you have accounts with the big tgps anyhow. SE is where the good free traffic is.you don't know you're wearing a leash if you sit by the peg all day..Comment
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Let me get this straight.... First... LL and TGP owners put in a lot of hard work to maintain their sites. Ok got that out of the way. However, if the "little guy" doesn't submit to your LL or TGP you don't stand a chance at becoming successful...or even maintaining your current level of success... Gallery and freesite submitters are what make a TGP and Link List successful by providing free content. Should I repeat that? "Gallery and freesite submitters are what make a TGP and Link List successful by providing free content."Originally posted by Lenny2Looking forward to where the TGP market is trending, with practically no free traffic, I see it like this.
2K a month will buy you partner accounts on every TGP that matters (and then some) You'll be able to submit probably 3-5 galleries per day, using your sponsor's content and free hosting.
So next year the average gallery guy will be no worse off than I was when I started in late 2000. The current trend is more of a "market correction" than the gloom and doom scenario alot of people are making it out to be.
Now after years of getting people to sub to you and help to make your site successful you gonna thank everyone buy charging for partner accounts...Give me a fucking break!ICQ: 150-803-430
Email: marketing7(at)cox(dot)netComment
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Great post Lenny,
DHComment
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That was once true. However with the way the industry has evolved.......free hosted galleries, content blowout deals, bannerless free hosting, free sponsor content, outsourced labor that can mass produce galleries......submitters are expendable.Originally posted by NTSSsig too bigComment
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Sure but that's not relevant to this thread.Originally posted by BlackCrayonsig too bigComment
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Originally posted by Lenny2
You can always tell ( or almost always ) when the outsourced labor submits because you get descriptions like:
"the hardcock fucks two man deep ladies pusy"
I should copy and paste a couple more... lolhttps://3-veo.com/
The best AI video maker portal.Comment
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No the best are the partner account requests.Originally posted by Huggles
This is an actual cut and paste from a partner request email
Hello!
Dear webmaster... I've been in adult business for 2 years, so my
experience is very big, therefore I've good clean galleries with a fresh
content, fast hosting and many partner accounts at most biggest TGP's
on the world.(croseries, sexzool, freepornpictures.org and many other.)
I'd like to apply for a password in order to submit to your TGP.sig too bigComment
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A TGP/MGP cannot become successfull using only FHG's. (keep in mind that the term "successfull" is relative to one's definition)Originally posted by Lenny2
Bannerless free hosting companies come and go. There's a handfull of new ones every year, and 99% of them go under.i buy massive xxx dating traffic.Comment
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First of all I wasn't talking about using only hosted galleries.....there were many other things I listed.Originally posted by Nismo
Get some cheap outsourced labor to build massive amounts of galleries everyday......that's just one option.
Also, I never mentioned a bannerless free hosting "company"
I was referring to the sponsors that will give you free hosting for promoting them. Its almost a standard thing now.
Submitters are expendable. You may not WANT to believe it and can maybe even come up with logical arguments about why it shouldn't happen....but you should at the very least be prepared for the day it does happen.sig too bigComment
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I'm used to paying to advertise... things like banner ads and text spots always required payment. Paid partner accounts seem like a natural evolution. Great post Lenny.Comment
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Originally posted by Lenny2
Well, ok then.
What's so bad about a sponsor giving free hosting for submitters?
And who here earns a living solely from submitting to other(s) tgp's? That would be kind of foolish to keep your eggs in 1 basket.
I don't know - maybe I am just completely naive.i buy massive xxx dating traffic.Comment
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Nothing wrong with sponsors giving free hosting. I was just pointing out that its a reason submitters are expendable....the TGP owner can have his own galleries built and hosted for free.Originally posted by Nismo
There are plenty of people whose only source of income is from gallery submissions, unfortunately for them it won't be that way much longer.
sig too bigComment
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Not true at all. No matter how hard a TGP may try to replace the job submitters do it can't. Submitters are like a 1000 person work force dedicated to searching for the best content and trying to build the best galleries. The amount of effort and time they put into their job would cost a TGP tens of thousands of dollars daily just to even come close to approximating. There may only be one or two sites that could afford this.Originally posted by Lenny2Comment
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I completely ignoire those TGPs....if I'm paying for a partner account, I'm not going to do the bullshit recip thing...the ONLY exception I've made is Al4A, because the traffic fucking rocks...beyond that, I won't pay for a submission account AND put up a recip...it's either/or and some TGP owners need to make up their minds...Originally posted by FunForOneComment
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I'll revise the statement. Free submitters are expendable.Originally posted by rhizome
The big TGP's will get everything they need from the people who pay for partner accounts.sig too bigComment
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For VOLUME, Lenny's right on the money. Things are going the "pay to play" route because people assume that QUANTITY of traffic is the best metric of any campaign's success. Perhaps, once "pay to play" is the standard, the next step will be a standardized measure of ROI? Volume is nice but volume that pays for itself along with producing a profit is even nicer. This is a big problem and will not be fixed quickly since there's many technical/logistical issues re standardization and reporting accuracy.
Regardless, there's other free sources of traffic out there. See: http://justtraffic.blogspot.comComment
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yep, some people will have to start making some changes.Comment
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Originally posted by jollyperv
Let me correct that for you:
"For everyone who charges for a partner account, there will always be 100 sites who don't...until they have enough traffic to charge for partner accounts."
The paid submit accounts are the way of the future. And about damned time.Comment
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charging for spots is fucked up.Comment
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why? if you were a tgp/mgp owner and had a good amount of traffic why not add the extra source of income? Smart business move. As a submitter, we will will just have to evolve to the changes and think of new ways if you don't want to pay for listings. Takes money to make money.Originally posted by nico-tComment
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(quote)
That was once true. However with the way the industry has evolved.......free hosted galleries, content blowout deals, bannerless free hosting, free sponsor content, outsourced labor that can mass produce galleries......submitters are expendable.
(unquote)
I am afraid he is having a point thereComment
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TIME = MONEY!!!!!!Originally posted by KristianI'm not hating dude, I just don't agree. I do, however, agree that it's a pretty crumby way to make money!
Here's why I think there will be free tgp traffic (for as long as tgps are a popular business model).
1. That 1000 or 2000 tgps with only a few K traffic cannot charge traffic. Submit to enough daily and you'll get accepted on enough to get some free traffic.
2. It's in the best interest of the business entities who sell autosubmitters to webmasters to fill their lists with free-submission tgps/mgps. They get more sales this way by appealing to a wider demographic of the market.
Anyway, no worries, opinions are like assholes - we all have one!
How many little tgp sites do you think you would need to submit to that would get you the same amount of traffic from 1 big tgp that you have a partner account with.
You guys are missing the big picture. Sure you can spend 10 hours a day submitting to the little tgps to get say 100K hits to your gallery for free, or you could pay $100 bucks a month to submit 1 gallery to a big tgp and get the same anount of traffic... what is your time worth ????????ICQ: 86364801 Email: will [at] innovativeassets [dot] com
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good post and insight on the way the things WILL change over the next couple years. For the top 100+ TGP's it will be paid spots and/or paid partner accounts ONLY in the next year or so.Originally posted by Lenny2The free traffic pool is shrinking every day and is almost at zero. Pretty soon you're going to have to pay for traffic in one way or another, be it paid listings or paid partner accounts.
I don't really see this as a bad thing. Its not that much different from when I started in this business.
While the bar for entry into this business has never been very high, its never been lower than it was in the past year.
When I first started in late 2000 there were MASSIVE AMOUNTS of FREE TRAFFIC available.
There was however, very little free content, most sponsors hated TGP's, said they were giving the store away, and they weren't about to give you free content to support what they saw as the problem.
Bannerless free hosting didn't exist. If you wanted free hosting you had to give up the header and footer of your page, and worry that the host wouldn't be there in 3 months.
If you went with paid hosting it would cost you between $3-$5 per gig.
So while I could submit a gallery to maybe the top 50 TGP's and get 150-200K uniques to that gallery, easily....it cost me at LEAST $20 in content and $50 in bandwidth for every picture gallery I submitted.
That's in the neighborhood of 2K a month in overhead to submit a gallery every day. People who were in the game back then can back me up on that.
To do 2 galleries a day would cost you 4K a month, and so on and so forth.
Over time the price of bandwidth dropped, sponsors started offering bannerless free hosting, and tons of new sites hit the scene, all offering free content for use on galleries. Now it didn't cost ANYTHING to get into the TGP gallery game.
Looking forward to where the TGP market is trending, with practically no free traffic, I see it like this.
2K a month will buy you partner accounts on every TGP that matters (and then some) You'll be able to submit probably 3-5 galleries per day, using your sponsor's content and free hosting.
So next year the average gallery guy will be no worse off than I was when I started in late 2000. The current trend is more of a "market correction" than the gloom and doom scenario alot of people are making it out to be.
ICQ: 86364801 Email: will [at] innovativeassets [dot] com
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I agree - with so many free hosted galleries...there is enough content to go around and the TGP owner will get credit on it. I've thought that gallery submitters would get phased out of the equation eventually.Originally posted by Lenny2The free traffic pool is shrinking every day and is almost at zero. Pretty soon you're going to have to pay for traffic in one way or another, be it paid listings or paid partner accounts.
I don't really see this as a bad thing. Its not that much different from when I started in this business.
While the bar for entry into this business has never been very high, its never been lower than it was in the past year.
When I first started in late 2000 there were MASSIVE AMOUNTS of FREE TRAFFIC available.
There was however, very little free content, most sponsors hated TGP's, said they were giving the store away, and they weren't about to give you free content to support what they saw as the problem.
Bannerless free hosting didn't exist. If you wanted free hosting you had to give up the header and footer of your page, and worry that the host wouldn't be there in 3 months.
If you went with paid hosting it would cost you between $3-$5 per gig.
So while I could submit a gallery to maybe the top 50 TGP's and get 150-200K uniques to that gallery, easily....it cost me at LEAST $20 in content and $50 in bandwidth for every picture gallery I submitted.
That's in the neighborhood of 2K a month in overhead to submit a gallery every day. People who were in the game back then can back me up on that.
To do 2 galleries a day would cost you 4K a month, and so on and so forth.
Over time the price of bandwidth dropped, sponsors started offering bannerless free hosting, and tons of new sites hit the scene, all offering free content for use on galleries. Now it didn't cost ANYTHING to get into the TGP gallery game.
Looking forward to where the TGP market is trending, with practically no free traffic, I see it like this.
2K a month will buy you partner accounts on every TGP that matters (and then some) You'll be able to submit probably 3-5 galleries per day, using your sponsor's content and free hosting.
So next year the average gallery guy will be no worse off than I was when I started in late 2000. The current trend is more of a "market correction" than the gloom and doom scenario alot of people are making it out to be.
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Lenny, we should get together and have a SubmitPasses/Project Revenue GFY give away
RayComment
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meh traffic is easy, its sales that are getting harder.no sigComment
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Originally posted by Lenny2
Ok...glad you agree...now if a tgp became successful using all the resources mentioned above...then I don't have a problem with that all...but how my big TGP's became successful this way?ICQ: 150-803-430
Email: marketing7(at)cox(dot)netComment
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Autosubmit, rudeboyOriginally posted by will76
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I'm not saying you're a noob, but what you just posted is like it was years ago, and times have changedOriginally posted by NTSS
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The biggest TGP's pre-date all of the things I mentioned.Originally posted by NTSS
If those tools were available to them in the beginning, I'm sure they would have used them.
Every big TGP uses hosted galleries (with the notable exception of The Hun)
They all have partner accounts for submitters that either cost $$ now or will cost $$ in the future.
You seem to be in denial so here's a new word for you to learn.
Disintermediate.
Our business isn't the first nor will it be the last where this occurs.sig too bigComment
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Another thing I'd like to add here
I DON'T OWN A TGP....this situation affects me the same way it affects anybody who makes money from galleries.
(technically I do own a TGP, but its nothing really, just a filter for my 404 traffic)
I'm simply pointing out that the way the market is heading isn't the end of the world. As I pointed out in my initial post, the cost of buying accounts at the top TGP's, the ones that can send both quantity and quality traffic, will be very similar to what the cost of bandwidth and content was 5 years ago.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.sig too bigComment
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Lenny think about this most of the really big tgp's who are sold out, These spots are mostly taken up with programe owners who make 100% of the sale so they can make less sales and pay more for those spots. The prices on these tgp's are getting out of reach for even the pro gallery guys because at best they make 60%. This means those big tgp's have more or less have the same galleries on them from the same sponosrs. This means bookmarkers come back less and tgp owner has to buy traffic to keep the numbers up.
After a while this takes it's toll and the tgp traffic is worthless.
The tgp's that still take some free submissions are fresher and keep there bookmarkers.
I used to budget 3k a month for buying gallery spots but I no longer as I cant make enough back to justify it these days those same tgp are now more expensive and there traffic worse.
When I buy positions now I look for tgp's that have a good mix of free and payed spots.Buy great domains from drunken burned out old webmaster CHEAP bullseyeporn.com art-met.com and more.
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gallery submitters have a very inflated sense of self worth
they are almost as bad as the TGP ownersComment
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i would hate to take webmasters money and not list their galleries...
gallery submitters paying for the pleasure of having their galleries "reviewed" doesnt impress me at all..Comment
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I'm not a gallery submitter in the true sense of the word. Submitted several, had a few listed at PK, Worldsex and a couple others but most were not listed.. and some that were not listed were decent galleries... Couldn't complain because it was free.
So to touch on what Shemp posted...Why would anyone pay to have their galleries reviewed with no guarantee that they would be listed?
Basically we are talking paid advertising here..and all the places that I pay to advertise place my ad because that is what I paid for. Not only do they list your ad they notify you regarding your ad and if not, it's very easy to locate, not so with TGP's.
If you want to charge for advertising, err "partner accounts" then there should be an approval process in place before you start accepting payment. You should be prepared to inform your "partner" about the location, date and duration of their listing. Let them know if it is not going to be listed and why, then give them an opportunity to modify it accordingly. Taking in to account the current practices of most tgp's I don't think they are ready for this.
If I'm paying a monthly fee I would want to be well informed...this is not presently the case.ICQ: 150-803-430
Email: marketing7(at)cox(dot)netComment
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I had to consult with a dictionary on that one (Disintermediate)Originally posted by Lenny2
...this is what I got:
"The word you've entered isn't in the dictionary." (Webster)
"No documents match the query." (American Heritage)
"was not found in the Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary" (Cambridge)
Damn you a bad dude!ICQ: 150-803-430
Email: marketing7(at)cox(dot)netComment
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Decent point, but what we are dealing with here is supply and demand. Currently, demand for advertising/listings on TGP sites is so great, that many people are willing to pay solely for the chance of being listed. This business model will work (at least for now), because in most cases, the smart submitter will make their money back. Time, work, and energy must also be factored into the profit margin though. This is something, I think most submitters do not consider or seem not to care about.Originally posted by NTSSComment
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Originally posted by KristianAutosubmit, rudeboy
last i checked does auto submit make all of those tgp pages for you and add the banner of the site on it or the receipt link back, for 1000 sites ??? also you will have to modify if some open to new windows when you click thumbs, some open same window, some need 12 or more pics some need 16, some have to be certain since, some only can have no more then 3 links to your site, etc. etc.. etc... how long will it take you to make all 100 of the pages, load the auto submitter with all the info and hit submit it then track your 100 mess of a clusterfuck of tgp's and good luck tracking your pages to see where the signup came from... even if you can do this in 2 hours (i doubt this) 2hours x 30 days 60 hours total... all of this to generate the same amount of traffic from 1 partner account for a big tgp for say $100 ... hmm $100 to save 60 hours time?
like i said what is your time worth? unless you are happy to make $1.50 an hour???ICQ: 86364801 Email: will [at] innovativeassets [dot] com
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Oh shit. I think that sky just fell.
Opps, Guess I was wrong.PornGuy skype me pornguy_epic
AmateurDough The Hottes Shemales online!
TChicks.com | Angeles Cid | Mariana Cordoba | MAILERS WELCOME!Comment
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I agree cunrent trends are heading that way. As most of the large LinkLists such as Tommy's is payed submit now, and many large tgps also heading down that path I see it as a good thing.
Most of these tgps/linklists are large quality traffic sources, and by them charging a reasonable fee per month or year they are weeding out the shitheads and scammers, thus making it more fair for the honest joe/ts trying to get a head.
As a submitter myself I pay for hosting, content, etc. I see paying for partner accounts as just another essential business expense.
Just and observation.
-NComment
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Why do we need gallery submitters? There are enough FHGs available.
The majority of submitters simply rip out FHGs and include recip links at the top, as if I can't do that myself? HAH!Comment
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Your just stupidOriginally posted by nmcogBuy great domains from drunken burned out old webmaster CHEAP bullseyeporn.com art-met.com and more.
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TGP's that do a combination of paid spots and free submissions will definitely be fresher and more pleasing to their surfers. Something similar to the way thehun operates where the highest few spots are paid, but the remainder are still up for grabs to free submissions. It keeps content interesting the traffic coming back to the TGP.Originally posted by BakeComment
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Now thats funnyOriginally posted by SteveBuy great domains from drunken burned out old webmaster CHEAP bullseyeporn.com art-met.com and more.
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[B][COLOR="RoyalBlue"]ICQ# 193-939-788Comment
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