WHERE THE HELL IS THE MUSIC COMING FROM?
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I still dont understand why is ibill the stand out? I understand what you worte but why did you pick ibill?Comment
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does this still apply if you have your own merchant account? no free trials?Looking to speak w/ high volume nutra CPA affiliates or networks... msg me
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somebody better have a backup because the hypocrisy meter is about to shatter!
I moved my sites to Vacares Hosting. I've saved money, my hair is thicker, lost some weight too! Thanks Sly!Comment
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True for small programs. Why would a large program take the chance? iBill is still going to process the rebills.Originally posted by Epoch
Through attrition of your recurring db and with no new signups you should be able to keep your VISA chargebacks below 100 in a month which prevents you from going into the VISA cbk program.
Clay
EPOCHComment
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Only for someOriginally posted by WiredGuy
Things are about to get really really ugly.
WG
Pornkings.comComment
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We did not "pick" them, it is their specific problems as written that is our sole motivation.Originally posted by tony404
I still dont understand why is ibill the stand out? I understand what you worte but why did you pick ibill?Comment
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Well ARS has already announced it will be dropping monthly price to $29.99 and no more free trials.
And of course they WILL be lowering payouts.
So who else is going to be lowering their payouts and who is going to keep them where they are?
This is a good opportunity for some smart sucessful sponsors to snag a ton of new affiliates.Learn SEO - make $$ residually - icq me 333485092Comment
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It is no secret that Ibill has been in turmoil. Managing CB's is not monkey business. After hearing the story about 2 major players having CB's with Ibill over 3%, and the same traffic with Epoch has significantly lower CB's. Makes you wonder if that photo of monkeys on Ibill desks that someone posted was real???Sig too big
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Can anyone tell me why it wouldn't be a good idea to get a merchant account instead of using an IPSP? If my name is listed as the one responsible and and my chargeback ratio is over 1%, it appears it wouldn't matter if I'm using an IPSP or not... I'd get TMF'ed either way.Originally posted by Rand
Penalties For Failure To Comply
There are severe economic penalties for violation of the ratios. The penalties are $100 per chargeback for up to a 6-month period. Failure to become compliant will result in the termination by Visa of your ability to accept Visa. This means that your url?s, as well as your corporate name and the name of the responsible party as listed on your Visa Registration, will be placed on the Terminated Merchant File (?TMF?).
Visa is very serious about this process and has sophisticated systems to track urls to prevent the content from being sold in the future to Visa cardholders. It has been proven several times that you can run, but you cannot hide from Visa.Comment
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You are 100% correct, my statement was dependent on the current volume of your rebills.Originally posted by woodman
True for small programs. Why would a large program take the chance? iBill is still going to process the rebills.
I guess the question some large program owners have to ask themselves is "can I get below 1% with Ibill?"
if the answer is No or Probably Not then some very important decisions have to be made...Comment
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I'm pretty sure I know who at least one of the 'big 2' is and in that case the ibill thing still makes little sense. To prevent people using them puts the blame on ibill's system for the chargeback. Presuming I'm right at least one of those sites made it VERY difficult if not impossible for your average surfer to cancel ibill memberships - they even had a cancellation form that literally done nothing accept falsely state that your membership was cancelled. I'd suggest that the ibill problem may well be the site and not ibill themselves. Mind you... as we are talking about ibill here nothing would surprise me.Ignorance is never bliss.
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your own merchant account isn't necessarily a good idea depending on your volume.Originally posted by calvin
Can anyone tell me why it wouldn't be a good idea to get a merchant account instead of using an IPSP? If my name is listed as the one responsible and and my chargeback ratio is over 1%, it appears it wouldn't matter if I'm using an IPSP or not... I'd get TMF'ed either way.
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as far as i know, you cancel your membership through a form designed and hosted by ibill.Originally posted by Tipsy
I'm pretty sure I know who at least one of the 'big 2' is and in that case the ibill thing still makes little sense. To prevent people using them puts the blame on ibill's system for the chargeback. Presuming I'm right at least one of those sites made it VERY difficult if not impossible for your average surfer to cancel ibill memberships - they even had a cancellation form that literally done nothing accept falsely state that your membership was cancelled. I'd suggest that the ibill problem may well be the site and not ibill themselves. Mind you... as we are talking about ibill here nothing would surprise me.
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email: psyko514(a)gmail.com | icq: 214-702-014Comment
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New meaning given to the term:
"Regime Change!"
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we also will be lowering our paid trial program from $40 to $30.Originally posted by jojojo
Well ARS has already announced it will be dropping monthly price to $29.99 and no more free trials.
And of course they WILL be lowering payouts.
So who else is going to be lowering their payouts and who is going to keep them where they are?
This is a good opportunity for some smart sucessful sponsors to snag a ton of new affiliates.
but we saw this coming thats why we launched Porn4aBuck which as been very successful with a payout 0f $25 that converts extremely well so its like getting paid $50 like most Paid trial programs.
the free trial programs are getting removed. no sweat... cause it didn't convert as well as our Porn$abuck model
we just threw it out there for those who only promoted free stuffLast edited by Pornkings; 07-10-2003, 04:08 PM.Pornkings.comComment
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Not on one of the very big sites that uses (edit to say used to use now) epoch and ibill you don't although that may have changed recently. I even have a copy of a nice little e-mail from ibill confirming that this was the case when they checked themselves a few months back.Originally posted by psyko514
as far as i know, you cancel your membership through a form designed and hosted by ibill.
I wont be posting it for the same reason I wont post the program name. I'll only bash a company when I have a very valid personal reason to do so. Burning bridges and all that. However the problem and the e-mail are (or at least were) very real.Ignorance is never bliss.
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thanks. one last question. Are you sayin Epoch has no clients on this chargeback program with Visa currently?Originally posted by Epoch
You are 100% correct, my statement was dependent on the current volume of your rebills.
I guess the question some large program owners have to ask themselves is "can I get below 1% with Ibill?"
if the answer is No or Probably Not then some very important decisions have to be made...Comment
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If the chargeback threshhold is 100 in a month, it would seem smaller sponsored merchants would be less likely to run into problems? Am I mis-understanding?
And if I understand correctly that your risk is lower on smaller volume merchants, are you imposing this new rule accross the board? And why?Comment
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Originally posted by Rich
Geez with the 30 minute free trials and multiple $40 cross sells, I never saw this coming.
WHEW, I thought I was the only rocket scientist here that had the pulse on Dion Warwick and her psychic buddies...
this has been predictable for quite a while now...Investor with 5m - 15m USD to invest. Do you have a site or network of sites earning 50k - 200k a month income? Email your contact and preliminary data to: domain.cashventures (at) gmail.com....Please...no tire kickers...serious offers and inquiries only.
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This statement doesn't make much sense.Originally posted by Chris Mallick
What is being ?killed off? are only a few features. And they are not being taken away because those features caused a problem. The issue is that when you are told to reduce from the previous threshold by 60% without any new tools to help, you have to cut. That is what is going on. Hope this helps.
C
In the past, you guys have said that cross sells and other features didn't cause chargebacks.
But you are now announcing that in order to cut back on chargebacks, you have to reduce and cut back on those features.
Also, I don't understand why you don't get rid of the pre-checked boxes all together. Why even risk keeping one pre-checked box?Comment
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hmmwe'll miss you our friend. RIPComment
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This is correct.Originally posted by woodman
thanks. one last question. Are you sayin Epoch has no clients on this chargeback program with Visa currently?
Clay
EPOCHComment
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Just wanted to point out that we've been paying out $30/join from the beginning because that's REALLY what we can afford without any tricks...
Our content sells itself and our members love us and stay forever. Now is the time to try a partnership program that really retains its members! We have webmasters who have rebilling members from the 90's still LOL...Comment
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Whenever something bad happenes to the adult entertainment it just makes the industry stronger
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Maybe it didn't cause problems when the chargeback limit was 2.5%. 1% isn't much room for even a slight risk.Originally posted by thetrog
This statement doesn't make much sense.
In the past, you guys have said that cross sells and other features didn't cause chargebacks.
But you are now announcing that in order to cut back on chargebacks, you have to reduce and cut back on those features.
Also, I don't understand why you don't get rid of the pre-checked boxes all together. Why even risk keeping one pre-checked box?
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Hi,Originally posted by Chris Mallick
No. The threshold is 100 chargebacks for a Sponsored Merchant to be required to meet the 1% ratio.
C
Just to be completely clear, if you are below 100 chargebacks then the 1% rule does not apply? What period are the 100 chargebacks counted over?Comment
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But regardless of the differences in chargeback thresholds, they are now admitting to a direct connection between cross sells and chargebacks.Originally posted by stocktrader23
Maybe it didn't cause problems when the chargeback limit was 2.5%. 1% isn't much room for even a slight risk.
In the past, Epoch always said that wasn't the case.Comment
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although the adult biz had it comming, i dont understand why mainstream is under this umbrella as well.
this now means that if i go to a tanning supply store online and purchase products then proceed to chargeback, i could literally tank that persons online business (if that is all the person has and not a brick and morter to back up its amount of sales). honestly, the mom and pop shops do not receive the same amount of traffic as joe porn site does. why are they included?ICQ: 309756847
]Comment
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very good point.Originally posted by stocktrader23
Maybe it didn't cause problems when the chargeback limit was 2.5%. 1% isn't much room for even a slight risk.
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email: psyko514(a)gmail.com | icq: 214-702-014Comment
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Yes - what is the period?Hi,
Just to be completely clear, if you are below 100 chargebacks then the 1% rule does not apply? What period are the 100 chargebacks counted over?Learn SEO - make $$ residually - icq me 333485092Comment
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That's a very interesting issue, assuming it's true.Originally posted by Tipsy
Not on one of the very big sites that uses (edit to say used to use now) epoch and ibill you don't although that may have changed recently. I even have a copy of a nice little e-mail from ibill confirming that this was the case when they checked themselves a few months back.
I wont be posting it for the same reason I wont post the program name. I'll only bash a company when I have a very valid personal reason to do so. Burning bridges and all that. However the problem and the e-mail are (or at least were) very real.
So what if everyone who uses IBill get's cut off by Epoch. Or has to dump IBill to keep Epoch.
And it turns out that the real problem was caused by the sponsor in question, not IBill.
What a mess.Last edited by thetrog; 07-10-2003, 04:29 PM.Comment
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like Clay said, the threshold is 100 chargebacks... If the mom and pop shops have a trickle of traffic and 100 chargebacks, there's a big problem somewhere.Originally posted by Cassie
although the adult biz had it comming, i dont understand why mainstream is under this umbrella as well.
this now means that if i go to a tanning supply store online and purchase products then proceed to chargeback, i could literally tank that persons online business (if that is all the person has and not a brick and morter to back up its amount of sales). honestly, the mom and pop shops do not receive the same amount of traffic as joe porn site does. why are they included?
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email: psyko514(a)gmail.com | icq: 214-702-014Comment
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That's true. They also said almost a year ago that Visa International would follow Visa USA and do the $750 thing and high risk registration thing. And that all the european and offshore billers would be out of business come November 2002. That didn't happen. It's coming up on a year now.Originally posted by thetrog
But regardless of the differences in chargeback thresholds, they are now admitting to a direct connection between cross sells and chargebacks.
In the past, Epoch always said that wasn't the case.
Now it's seems like a similar story - that Visa USA has implemented this 1% rule and Visa International will "follow soon".
It seems to me that it is the USA region exclusively that is on a mad vendetta against third party billing and maybe porn in general. And maybe they are on this vendetta because chargebacks have been out of whack in this industry for a long time. Cross sells, free trials, difficult cancellations all contributed to that.Comment
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Ok, look at it this way. Some surfers sign up with the intent to charge back. If they signed up for a site with two cross sales they merchant would get hit with 3 chargebacks instead of 1 or 2.Originally posted by thetrog
But regardless of the differences in chargeback thresholds, they are now admitting to a direct connection between cross sells and chargebacks.
In the past, Epoch always said that wasn't the case.
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Can you provide us with a bit more info on the two clients you are referencing? Do those two clients also bill with Paycom and/or CCBill? Why does it matter if they are in the break out program?Originally posted by Chris Mallick
We did not "pick" them, it is their specific problems as written that is our sole motivation.
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or maybe ashdick is using visa to do what congress wont.Originally posted by ozzymandius
And maybe they are on this vendetta because chargebacks have been out of whack in this industry for a long time.the revolution is coming.Comment
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ok so lets clarify...
IF you have under 100 chargebacks this doesn't affect u? seems to be some confusion on this? Can people please explain?
and if so whats the period.Comment
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I understand the ratio problem you are describing.Originally posted by stocktrader23
Ok, look at it this way. Some surfers sign up with the intent to charge back. If they signed up for a site with two cross sales they merchant would get hit with 3 chargebacks instead of 1 or 2.
What I don't understand is Epoch's inconsistant statements.
I do appreciate the information they give us, but sometimes it's not always credible.Comment
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Originally posted by EscortBiz
Whenever something bad happenes to the adult entertainment it just makes the industry stronger
KEEP IT CUMMMMMMMMMIN
Comment
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And.... still not sure how another Sponsored Merchant being out of compliance effects the risk of ME?
last 3 months statements from ibill
36 chargebacks / 5146 transactions : .7% cb
last 3 months at epoch
10 chargebacks / 1804 transactions: .55% cb
Any way you slice it, I'm not over 1%, I'm no where near 100 cb in a month. Why do you want to lose the secondary processing I do with you?Comment
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it's not you. it's ibill. figure it out.Originally posted by khy
And.... still not sure how another Sponsored Merchant being out of compliance effects the risk of ME?
last 3 months statements from ibill
36 chargebacks / 5146 transactions : .7% cb
last 3 months at epoch
10 chargebacks / 1804 transactions: .55% cb
Any way you slice it, I'm not over 1%, I'm no where near 100 cb in a month. Why do you want to lose the secondary processing I do with you?
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email: psyko514(a)gmail.com | icq: 214-702-014Comment
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Umm - what is up with the 100 CB amount to be even considered for 1% - is this accurate and what is the period?
This is crucial - because 100 in 10,000 sales is 1%
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thats what im thinking its very crucial....Originally posted by jojojo
Umm - what is up with the 100 CB amount to be even considered for 1% - is this accurate and what is the period?
This is crucial - because 100 in 10,000 sales is 1%
Lots of paysites don't do that many sales in a year...Comment
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If you have your own merchant account, it is your call. However, I do not recommend it. We do have some merchants who do free trials and unless you have a very dedicated customer base, it is not a good idea.Originally posted by robfantasy
does this still apply if you have your own merchant account? no free trials?
Mitch
Mitch Farber
CEO - NETbilling, Inc.
Email / Phone: 888-357-8166 / 661-252-2456
Transaction processing & 24/7 call center services with exceptional rates and flexibility, since 1998!Comment
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Is it right that you have to have 100 chargebacks a month to be held to the 1% rule?
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I don't get that either. If I'm reading this correctly, the break out program means they could lose Visa processing all together, no matter which processor they are with, including Epoch processing.Originally posted by scoreman
Can you provide us with a bit more info on the two clients you are referencing? Do those two clients also bill with Paycom and/or CCBill? Why does it matter if they are in the break out program?
But only if they don't clean up their act in six months.
What I don't understand is why this prohibits everyone from also doing business with IBill.
Wouldn't it be more fair to allow Ibill processing as long as you don't get flagged with the break out program? Especially since there's a six month window on that?
What's the risk for Epoch in that scenario?Comment
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hmmmmm.Originally posted by x582
whoa
Hook 'em.Comment
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No risk to Epoch. Think a little deeper as to why they are doing this.Originally posted by thetrog
I don't get that either. If I'm reading this correctly, the break out program means they could lose Visa processing all together, no matter which processor they are with, including Epoch processing.
But only if they don't clean up their act in six months.
What I don't understand is why this prohibits everyone from also doing business with IBill.
Wouldn't it be more fair to allow Ibill processing as long as you don't get flagged with the break out program? Especially since there's a six month window on that?
What's the risk for Epoch in that scenario?
<hint> it has nothing to do with the two clients on some ibill breakout list at visaComment
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Now's a good time to sell shares in ibill's company it seems.Ignorance is never bliss.
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