Zorgman & Tevs: I have serious question about your software

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  • teksonline
    So Fucking Banned
    • Jan 2005
    • 2904
    #1

    Zorgman & Tevs: I have serious question about your software

    You have made a statement saying that you will terminate anyone's license that is using your software for illegal tube action...

    I need to know the answer to a question, since i have been looking at your HTML and can tell you are spying on everyone who has installed this software, by you purposely putting html code in there with blind image calls so you can track where its being run and all that....

    While I feel this is a childesh mve on your end, it really is none of my business, but what I do need to know, that is my business, is this software dependent on your end? Is this software going to malfunction if you/your server dissappears?

    How could you terminate my license if this was not the case? Sorry, but I can not have one of my investments fail or be hindered by such software in control by a third party licensing system. Therefore if it is controlled I must dump it immediately... let me know ASAP.

    I will also be installing a firewall as your software in my mind is construed as spyware, for all i know you could be reading in all the imports im doing and everything.. I dont think you are like that, but i really dont want you to know what my personal itnernal business ip's that are using this software either...
    thats my security i need to protect. So basically anything to DNS bigdotmedia will be redirected to 127.0.0.1 and your known ip's, if this is a problem then again sorry but I must go in a new direction with different software will be firewalled.
    Tags: None
    • sortie
      Confirmed User
      • Mar 2007
      • 7771
      #2
      Popcorn anyone?

        Comment

        • Scroto
          Confirmed User
          • Nov 2005
          • 2804
          #3
          think ill take a seat here as ive been putting some research into this script

            Comment

            • Dirty F
              Too lazy to set a custom title
              • Jul 2001
              • 59204
              #4
              I'm not even gonna post in this thread.

                Comment

                • scottybuzz
                  Too lazy to set a custom title
                  • May 2006
                  • 14799
                  #5
                  very good points raised
                  $$$$$ MAKE HUGE MONEY IN CAMS - CLICK HERE $$$$$

                    Comment

                    • Va2k
                      I’m still alive barley.
                      • Oct 2001
                      • 10060
                      #6

                      Why didn't you wait and ask him first before posting?
                      I really can't see him doing such things as this, but then again it is the adult biz!

                        Comment

                        • Bro Media - BANNED FOR LIFE
                          MOBILE PORN: IMOBILEPORN
                          • Jan 2004
                          • 16502
                          #7
                          don't use it... he created it he can do with it as he may, if you don't like it, don't purchase it

                            Comment

                            • Damian_Maxcash
                              So Fucking Banned
                              • Oct 2002
                              • 12745
                              #8
                              I think it uses Zend - The server being up issue is always a problem.

                              BUT - Unless you want to pay 1000's for a custom job its the only way Zorg can do business.

                              If I was in his shoes I would offer an invite only source code version to my most trusted customers at a premium.

                                Comment

                                • teksonline
                                  So Fucking Banned
                                  • Jan 2005
                                  • 2904
                                  #9
                                  Originally posted by Damian_Maxcash
                                  I think it uses Zend - The server being up issue is always a problem.

                                  BUT - Unless you want to pay 1000's for a custom job its the only way Zorg can do business.

                                  If I was in his shoes I would offer an invite only source code version to my most trusted customers at a premium.
                                  well, i got it because the front end was source there, enough to satisfy me, but now I am worried about backend, i was unaware it might be dependent on something other than my domain name and the zend engine itself.. however if it is checking with his end, then i do have a problem... and to the idiots who are saying he can do what he wants, he can, and as I stated, i will have to dump it... Didnt particularly care to see those other snoop things, just makes you curious what else could be there, i will run packet sniffers on it later.

                                    Comment

                                    • candyflip
                                      Carpe Visio
                                      • Jul 2002
                                      • 43069
                                      #10
                                      Originally posted by Damian_Maxcash
                                      I think it uses Zend - The server being up issue is always a problem.

                                      BUT - Unless you want to pay 1000's for a custom job its the only way Zorg can do business.

                                      If I was in his shoes I would offer an invite only source code version to my most trusted customers at a premium.
                                      It is Zend encoded, which means you need to have the Optimizer installed in order to run the program. Has nothing to do with being tied to his server or needing his server to be up in order to run it.

                                      Spend you some brain.
                                      Email Me

                                        Comment

                                        • PR_Sebas
                                          Confirmed User
                                          • Dec 2006
                                          • 2825
                                          #11
                                          hmm interesting topic

                                            Comment

                                            • Damian_Maxcash
                                              So Fucking Banned
                                              • Oct 2002
                                              • 12745
                                              #12
                                              Originally posted by candyflip
                                              It is Zend encoded, which means you need to have the Optimizer installed in order to run the program. Has nothing to do with being tied to his server or needing his server to be up in order to run it.
                                              Dosnt it check the licence server evey time?

                                              I could be wrong - but I thought that was the point?

                                                Comment

                                                • IllTestYourGirls
                                                  Ah My Balls
                                                  • Feb 2007
                                                  • 14311
                                                  #13
                                                  some questions should be out in the open so people can make informed decisions.

                                                  Originally posted by Fungus

                                                  Why didn't you wait and ask him first before posting?
                                                  I really can't see him doing such things as this, but then again it is the adult biz!

                                                    Comment

                                                    • candyflip
                                                      Carpe Visio
                                                      • Jul 2002
                                                      • 43069
                                                      #14
                                                      Originally posted by Damian_Maxcash
                                                      Dosnt it check the licence server evey time?

                                                      I could be wrong - but I thought that was the point?
                                                      I suppose it would be possible that's built into the code, but the Zend program just encodes the PHP so that you don't have access to the code. I believe it would all be done via PHP and Zend has nothing to do with the process apart from encoding and protecting said code.

                                                      Spend you some brain.
                                                      Email Me

                                                        Comment

                                                        • Babaganoosh
                                                          ♥♥♥ Likes Hugs ♥♥♥
                                                          • Nov 2001
                                                          • 15841
                                                          #15
                                                          Originally posted by Damian_Maxcash
                                                          Dosnt it check the licence server evey time?

                                                          I could be wrong - but I thought that was the point?
                                                          With zend you can generate a license for a copy of a script that is tied to a domain or even a mac address. Uptime on the author's server doesn't matter.

                                                          If anyone has a problem with that script, there will be an alternative available very soon for much, much less money and no linkback required. That's what I hear anyway.
                                                          I like pie.

                                                            Comment

                                                            • candyflip
                                                              Carpe Visio
                                                              • Jul 2002
                                                              • 43069
                                                              #16
                                                              Originally posted by Babaganoosh
                                                              With zend you can generate a license for a copy of a script that is tied to a domain or even a mac address. Uptime on the author's server doesn't matter.

                                                              If anyone has a problem with that script, there will be an alternative available very soon for much, much less money and no linkback required. That's what I hear anyway.
                                                              Interesting.

                                                              and

                                                              Interesting.

                                                              Spend you some brain.
                                                              Email Me

                                                                Comment

                                                                • CyberHustler
                                                                  Masterbaiter
                                                                  • Feb 2006
                                                                  • 28760
                                                                  #17
                                                                  Originally posted by Dirty F
                                                                  I'm not even gonna post in this thread.
                                                                  Me neither...
                                                                  “If you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he’ll empty his pockets for you.”

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • qxm
                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                      • Jul 2006
                                                                      • 5970
                                                                      #18
                                                                      interesting thread.......although it makes my balls itch......

                                                                      ICQ: 266990876

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • will76
                                                                          Making $$$$ w/ ClickCash
                                                                          • May 2003
                                                                          • 18037
                                                                          #19
                                                                          I can see for the smaller guys who want to start a tube site, but for anyone that has any amount of money or resources why not have your own system built, it can't be that expensive or hard to do ?
                                                                          ICQ: 86364801 Email: will [at] innovativeassets [dot] com

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                                                                            • Tjeezers
                                                                              Webmaster
                                                                              • Mar 2007
                                                                              • 16603
                                                                              #20
                                                                              I love TEVS

                                                                              Get 43 FREE Backlinks when joining SWAG Live - Click my banner to get the links!

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • Zorgman
                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                  • Aug 2002
                                                                                  • 6103
                                                                                  #21
                                                                                  teksonline,

                                                                                  I'm not going to go into blue prints on how TEVS works. That is my business and nothing I wish to share publicly.

                                                                                  However, I like to know who is using my software to ensure that the domain name is licensed.
                                                                                  If our server was switch off then all TEVS sites would run 100% without us. But we're not going anywhere.

                                                                                  If you don't agree with the TEVS license agreement then please do NOT purchase TEVS. There are many other tube scripts out there.

                                                                                  You say spyware? Please provide proof! We have no spyware in TEVS. We do not read any information from your server except the domain it is used on.
                                                                                  We have no interest in your galleries, videos, links, ips or other information.

                                                                                  You can use whatever firewall you want to protect yourself. I know a few webmasters that have done this already and im fine with it.
                                                                                  However, doing so puts your on a higher level of security as I would think you have something to hide by blocking us.

                                                                                  Please contact me if you have any further questions regarding these issues.
                                                                                  ---

                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                    • farkedup
                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                      • Nov 2007
                                                                                      • 2490
                                                                                      #22
                                                                                      it is a common practice with scripts.... I don't see anything wrong with what TEVS is doing. The main thing is that its not tied to his server being up. MOST scripts have a call home device that checks to make sure the license is valid. The only thing to be concerned about is what can happen if your license is cancelled, there are certainly plenty of alternatives... Hell buying TEVS just to have it build you a DB to use with some other tube software its still worth the price paid for it ;)

                                                                                      I develop a tube script and any of you that think that it "can't be that hard" are dead wrong, its a bitch to get everything just right.
                                                                                      -- QUOTE ME IT MAKES ME FEEL SPECIAL --

                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                        • Gambrinus
                                                                                          So Fucking Banned
                                                                                          • Jun 2007
                                                                                          • 740
                                                                                          #23
                                                                                          Any of you designers skin a tevs site yet?

                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                            • will76
                                                                                              Making $$$$ w/ ClickCash
                                                                                              • May 2003
                                                                                              • 18037
                                                                                              #24
                                                                                              Originally posted by farkedup

                                                                                              I develop a tube script and any of you that think that it "can't be that hard" are dead wrong, its a bitch to get everything just right.
                                                                                              oh come on basic youtube clone, it can't be that hard. what type of features does the one you create have that made it so complex ?
                                                                                              ICQ: 86364801 Email: will [at] innovativeassets [dot] com

                                                                                              PROGRAM SHIT LIST - DO NOT PROMOTE (click link for gfy thread)
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                                                                                                • Damian_Maxcash
                                                                                                  So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                  • Oct 2002
                                                                                                  • 12745
                                                                                                  #25
                                                                                                  Originally posted by will76
                                                                                                  oh come on basic youtube clone, it can't be that hard. what type of features does the one you create have that made it so complex ?
                                                                                                  You get more and more arrogant by the day....

                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                    • Iron Fist
                                                                                                      Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                      • Dec 2006
                                                                                                      • 23400
                                                                                                      #26
                                                                                                      i like waffles

                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                        • Voodoo
                                                                                                          ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠
                                                                                                          • Sep 2002
                                                                                                          • 10600
                                                                                                          #27
                                                                                                          /* servercheck(); */

                                                                                                          "I'm selflessly supporting the common good, but only coincidentally looking out for No.1."

                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                            • Zorgman
                                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                                              • Aug 2002
                                                                                                              • 6103
                                                                                                              #28
                                                                                                              Originally posted by Gambrinus
                                                                                                              Any of you designers skin a tevs site yet?
                                                                                                              Mechanical Bunny Media has started making skins and code changes for TEVS. You can find his contacts here. http://www.bigdotmedia.com/services.php
                                                                                                              ---

                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                • k0nr4d
                                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                                  • Aug 2006
                                                                                                                  • 9231
                                                                                                                  #29
                                                                                                                  Zend encoding doesn't require any checks back home. It is a license file you place on your server that is locked to your domain.
                                                                                                                  Mechanical Bunny Media
                                                                                                                  Mechbunny Tube Script | Mechbunny Webcam Aggregator Script | Custom Web Development

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                                                                                                                    • fuzebox
                                                                                                                      making it rain
                                                                                                                      • Oct 2003
                                                                                                                      • 22353
                                                                                                                      #30
                                                                                                                      Originally posted by will76
                                                                                                                      oh come on basic youtube clone, it can't be that hard. what type of features does the one you create have that made it so complex ?
                                                                                                                      This is true, most scripts that people think are a ton of work are actually quite easy... I threw together most of a tube site in an afternoon.

                                                                                                                      You know what takes the time in programming a script? A bulletproof yet easy to use user interface for the purposes of selling the script to less-technical users like your average webmaster Adding control panels to do everything imaginable is what takes all the time.

                                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                                        • Babaganoosh
                                                                                                                          ♥♥♥ Likes Hugs ♥♥♥
                                                                                                                          • Nov 2001
                                                                                                                          • 15841
                                                                                                                          #31
                                                                                                                          Originally posted by fuzebox
                                                                                                                          This is true, most scripts that people think are a ton of work are actually quite easy... I threw together most of a tube site in an afternoon.

                                                                                                                          You know what takes the time in programming a script? A bulletproof yet easy to use user interface for the purposes of selling the script to less-technical users like your average webmaster Adding control panels to do everything imaginable is what takes all the time.


                                                                                                                          Not to mention supporting the end-user.
                                                                                                                          I like pie.

                                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                                            • Zorgman
                                                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                                                              • Aug 2002
                                                                                                                              • 6103
                                                                                                                              #32
                                                                                                                              Originally posted by Babaganoosh


                                                                                                                              Not to mention supporting the end-user.
                                                                                                                              And Video tutorials. It took me so long to take the "sexy" out of my voice in those tutorials. I almost went insane.

                                                                                                                              If there is any programmers out there, I can only suggest that you make video tutorials that explaines your software. I know my tutorials answer almost 95% of the webmasters questions. This gives me more time to give it to those that need the support.
                                                                                                                              ---

                                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                                • will76
                                                                                                                                  Making $$$$ w/ ClickCash
                                                                                                                                  • May 2003
                                                                                                                                  • 18037
                                                                                                                                  #33
                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by fuzebox
                                                                                                                                  This is true, most scripts that people think are a ton of work are actually quite easy... I threw together most of a tube site in an afternoon.

                                                                                                                                  You know what takes the time in programming a script? A bulletproof yet easy to use user interface for the purposes of selling the script to less-technical users like your average webmaster Adding control panels to do everything imaginable is what takes all the time.
                                                                                                                                  Damian_maxcash disagrees and went on a tirade on how I could say something so arrogant and wrong.

                                                                                                                                  I was asking how hard could it be for the basic setup, i dont know but just guessing it isn't that hard. Ofcourse if you add tons of good features then I would imagine it would make it a lot more complex and harder to do.
                                                                                                                                  ICQ: 86364801 Email: will [at] innovativeassets [dot] com

                                                                                                                                  PROGRAM SHIT LIST - DO NOT PROMOTE (click link for gfy thread)
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                                                                                                                                    • candyflip
                                                                                                                                      Carpe Visio
                                                                                                                                      • Jul 2002
                                                                                                                                      • 43069
                                                                                                                                      #34
                                                                                                                                      Originally posted by fuzebox
                                                                                                                                      This is true, most scripts that people think are a ton of work are actually quite easy... I threw together most of a tube site in an afternoon.

                                                                                                                                      You know what takes the time in programming a script? A bulletproof yet easy to use user interface for the purposes of selling the script to less-technical users like your average webmaster Adding control panels to do everything imaginable is what takes all the time.
                                                                                                                                      Originally posted by Babaganoosh


                                                                                                                                      Not to mention supporting the end-user.
                                                                                                                                      Both of which, in my opinion, are what stand out about TEVS and Zorgman.

                                                                                                                                      Spend you some brain.
                                                                                                                                      Email Me

                                                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                                                        • chompers
                                                                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                          • Jul 2005
                                                                                                                                          • 189
                                                                                                                                          #35
                                                                                                                                          Whooooooo Whooooooooooo
                                                                                                                                          Make Money With The Best In the Biz

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                                                                                                                                            • sortie
                                                                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                              • Mar 2007
                                                                                                                                              • 7771
                                                                                                                                              #36
                                                                                                                                              Originally posted by fuzebox
                                                                                                                                              You know what takes the time in programming a script? A bulletproof yet easy to use user interface for the purposes of selling the script to less-technical users like your average webmaster Adding control panels to do everything imaginable is what takes all the time.
                                                                                                                                              Yes, but that is the reason people buy the script to begin with.

                                                                                                                                              I can write a script for myself in a week but it takes 2 months to make it
                                                                                                                                              a sellable product.

                                                                                                                                              I have to put a function in for every little thing that I would just FTP and do myself because the buyer doesn't know what files are involved in the functions. Also, the buyers don't want to know that stuff, they just want to start making money.

                                                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                                                • fuzebox
                                                                                                                                                  making it rain
                                                                                                                                                  • Oct 2003
                                                                                                                                                  • 22353
                                                                                                                                                  #37
                                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by sortie
                                                                                                                                                  Yes, but that is the reason people buy the script to begin with.

                                                                                                                                                  I can write a script for myself in a week but it takes 2 months to make it
                                                                                                                                                  a sellable product.
                                                                                                                                                  Exactly, but the question was "is it an easy/quick script to make

                                                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                                                    • lbc213
                                                                                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                      • Sep 2006
                                                                                                                                                      • 2673
                                                                                                                                                      #38
                                                                                                                                                      Originally posted by Dirty F
                                                                                                                                                      I'm not even gonna post in this thread.
                                                                                                                                                      Neither am I.

                                                                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                                                                        • sortie
                                                                                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                          • Mar 2007
                                                                                                                                                          • 7771
                                                                                                                                                          #39
                                                                                                                                                          Originally posted by fuzebox
                                                                                                                                                          Exactly, but the question was "is it an easy/quick script to make
                                                                                                                                                          I wouldn't say a tube script is something easy/quick to make unless someone
                                                                                                                                                          is just patching code from other sources.

                                                                                                                                                          Maybe some wiz kid can knock out a decent tube script in two weeks but for most people they better allocate 2 months to making something worth a crap.

                                                                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                                                                            • farkedup
                                                                                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                              • Nov 2007
                                                                                                                                                              • 2490
                                                                                                                                                              #40
                                                                                                                                                              I spent 10x more time dumbing down a feature so more people people can use it than it takes to make the feature for me.... recently I spent 5 or 6 hours drinking myself into a stupor trying to come up with some things so simple even someone wasted could figure it out... That is the kind of market research I enjoy doing ;)
                                                                                                                                                              -- QUOTE ME IT MAKES ME FEEL SPECIAL --

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                                                                                                                                                                • Zorgman
                                                                                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                  • Aug 2002
                                                                                                                                                                  • 6103
                                                                                                                                                                  #41
                                                                                                                                                                  It took roughty 6 months to plan and execute TEVS. Im glad i took my time creating it too because webmasters seem to love the script, which is great news. :D
                                                                                                                                                                  ---

                                                                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                                                                    • will76
                                                                                                                                                                      Making $$$$ w/ ClickCash
                                                                                                                                                                      • May 2003
                                                                                                                                                                      • 18037
                                                                                                                                                                      #42
                                                                                                                                                                      Originally posted by sortie
                                                                                                                                                                      Yes, but that is the reason people buy the script to begin with.

                                                                                                                                                                      I can write a script for myself in a week but it takes 2 months to make it
                                                                                                                                                                      a sellable product.

                                                                                                                                                                      I have to put a function in for every little thing that I would just FTP and do myself because the buyer doesn't know what files are involved in the functions. Also, the buyers don't want to know that stuff, they just want to start making money.
                                                                                                                                                                      i definetly agree and i wasn't insulting what anyone here has made. My comments where people with resources and money, why wouldnt they want to get something made for them opposed to using a license copy, and that I didnt think it would be that hard to make a basic clone system.

                                                                                                                                                                      Sure if you setting up tons of features especially for other people to use, or you are decking out your own version for yourself then I wouldnt doubt it taking you months to do and it not being an easy thing.
                                                                                                                                                                      ICQ: 86364801 Email: will [at] innovativeassets [dot] com

                                                                                                                                                                      PROGRAM SHIT LIST - DO NOT PROMOTE (click link for gfy thread)
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                                                                                                                                                                        • Babaganoosh
                                                                                                                                                                          ♥♥♥ Likes Hugs ♥♥♥
                                                                                                                                                                          • Nov 2001
                                                                                                                                                                          • 15841
                                                                                                                                                                          #43
                                                                                                                                                                          Originally posted by candyflip
                                                                                                                                                                          Both of which, in my opinion, are what stand out about TEVS and Zorgman.
                                                                                                                                                                          Yeah, I have to give him credit there. He clearly has more patience with customers than I do/did. LOTS more patience. That's what it takes.

                                                                                                                                                                          It's like Randall said in Clerks: "This job would be great if it wasn't for the fucking customers."
                                                                                                                                                                          I like pie.

                                                                                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                                                                                            • Zorgman
                                                                                                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                              • Aug 2002
                                                                                                                                                                              • 6103
                                                                                                                                                                              #44
                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks for your kind comments guys. I do appreciate it.

                                                                                                                                                                              Any other questions regarding TEVS?
                                                                                                                                                                              ---

                                                                                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                • Easton
                                                                                                                                                                                  Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                                                                                  • Sep 2002
                                                                                                                                                                                  • 9825
                                                                                                                                                                                  #45
                                                                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by Zorgman
                                                                                                                                                                                  Thanks for your kind comments guys. I do appreciate it.

                                                                                                                                                                                  Any other questions regarding TEVS?
                                                                                                                                                                                  yes, i just sent you a question thru the members area on what may be going wrong with my mass FHG importing... thanks in advance
                                                                                                                                                                                  New models booked and shot every week... MILFs, pornstars and teens. Girls for every niche and project.
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                                                                                                                                                                                    • Zorgman
                                                                                                                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                                      • Aug 2002
                                                                                                                                                                                      • 6103
                                                                                                                                                                                      #46
                                                                                                                                                                                      Hi Easton. I replied to your email. Lets chat. :D
                                                                                                                                                                                      ---

                                                                                                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                        • campimp
                                                                                                                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                                          • Jan 2007
                                                                                                                                                                                          • 1340
                                                                                                                                                                                          #47
                                                                                                                                                                                          i have no complaints with the program... easy to implement, and as someone stated, maybe this is geared more for the smaller user... i fall into that category, but it has been successful at creating a professional looking tube site for me that i am very proud of

                                                                                                                                                                                          nothing but love for TEVS !!

                                                                                                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                            • Zorgman
                                                                                                                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                                              • Aug 2002
                                                                                                                                                                                              • 6103
                                                                                                                                                                                              #48
                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks Campimp, did you see the latest addon for the pre-approve system?
                                                                                                                                                                                              ---

                                                                                                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                                • enerual
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                                                  • Feb 2008
                                                                                                                                                                                                  • 284
                                                                                                                                                                                                  #49
                                                                                                                                                                                                  icq: 261-070-140
                                                                                                                                                                                                  yahoo messenger: [email protected]

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