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Mutt

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#1

Alot of Suspicion Going On But No Evidence

03-13-2007, 09:11 AM

all this talk about Zango and other scumware jacking traffic and affiliate codes but other than Will posting screencaps of Zango in action popping the AFF ads I've seen nobody else post any evidence of anything else nefarious happening.

the answer is to get one of your old computers or a very cheap new one and use it to surf the free sites without any anti-virus protection and get infestated with all this shit and then start documenting what happens when u surf free sites and try to join paysites.

I moved my sites to Vacares Hosting. I've saved money, my hair is thicker, lost some weight too! Thanks Sly!
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JFK

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#2

03-13-2007, 09:18 AM

perhaps people, aside from certain ones, have better things to do with their time?

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wyldworx

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#3

03-13-2007, 09:21 AM

zango shmango. I will be happy to hear the end of this saga...
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Tempest

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#4

03-13-2007, 09:40 AM

Originally posted by Mutt

all this talk about Zango and other scumware jacking traffic and affiliate codes but other than Will posting screencaps of Zango in action popping the AFF ads I've seen nobody else post any evidence of anything else nefarious happening.

Isn't the fact that any Zango users are effectively "stealing" the traffic you're trying to send to other sponsors enough for you? Oh.. And the fact that AFF/Cams even admited their actions had previously "stolen" sales from their own affiliates but that they've "corrected" that. How many other programs that are STILL using Zango are stealing their affiliates sales? I don't think anyone has ever said anything else nefarious is going on with the Zango thing.
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lazycash

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#5

03-13-2007, 09:47 AM

Originally posted by Mutt

all this talk about Zango and other scumware jacking traffic and affiliate codes but other than Will posting screencaps of Zango in action popping the AFF ads I've seen nobody else post any evidence of anything else nefarious happening.

the answer is to get one of your old computers or a very cheap new one and use it to surf the free sites without any anti-virus protection and get infestated with all this shit and then start documenting what happens when u surf free sites and try to join paysites.

Might want to go and read some of the long Zango threads, multiple people have noted instances of how Zango operates first hand, not just Will.

"WTF, on google you can find the answer to every question in human history, EXCEPT how to convert cams..

Its crazy..."

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lazycash

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#6

03-13-2007, 09:49 AM

Originally posted by JFK

perhaps people, aside from certain ones, have better things to do with their time?

Perhaps some people choose to be non chalant about it because they are too busy schmoozing with the thieves.

"WTF, on google you can find the answer to every question in human history, EXCEPT how to convert cams..

Its crazy..."

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96ukssob

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#7

03-13-2007, 09:51 AM

i thought about doing this myself to see if any of my shit is effected or how i can redirect people with the zango toolbar.

I have an old dell im going to fire up. ill post some screen shots of anything i find

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spacedog

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#8

03-13-2007, 09:56 AM

I forget the names of them, but there's also toolbars & so called adult browsers that also replace your aff code with theirs. Almost all of these "adult browsers" switch affiliate codes
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DTK

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#9

03-13-2007, 09:59 AM

Originally posted by lazycash

Perhaps some people choose to be non chalant about it because they are too busy schmoozing with the thieves.

Arguing whether the Democratic or Republican party is better is like debating which steaming pile of shit is slightly less stinky.
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Mutt

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#10

03-13-2007, 10:06 AM

you misunderstood me - I know we have lots of documented evidence of Zango stealing traffic but there are people talking about lots of other scum bags out there and saying that affiliate codes are being rewritten, redirects on join pages etc - i haven't seen anybody screencap anything but the Zango stuff.

I moved my sites to Vacares Hosting. I've saved money, my hair is thicker, lost some weight too! Thanks Sly!
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JFK

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#11

03-13-2007, 10:07 AM

Originally posted by lazycash

Perhaps some people choose to be non chalant about it because they are too busy schmoozing with the thieves.

or they are too busy making money, to be involved in the daily drama

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woj

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#12

03-13-2007, 10:10 AM

Originally posted by lazycash

Perhaps some people choose to be non chalant about it because they are too busy schmoozing with the thieves.

I don't see you doing anything about it, wise guy... Tell us what you have done so far to deal with this problem (posting witty remarks on gfy doesn't count)

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lazycash

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#13

03-13-2007, 10:14 AM

Originally posted by JFK

or they are too busy making money, to be involved in the daily drama

Since when does making money and taking a stand against those negatively affecting our industry have to be independent of each other? You sure do have a lot of posts for someone who is "too busy".

"WTF, on google you can find the answer to every question in human history, EXCEPT how to convert cams..

Its crazy..."

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JFK

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#14

03-13-2007, 10:39 AM

Originally posted by lazycash

Since when does making money and taking a stand against those negatively affecting our industry have to be independent of each other? You sure do have a lot of posts for someone who is "too busy".

Sorry, I was NOT referring to myself . Besides, its all about the sig

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BlackCrayon

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#15

03-13-2007, 10:41 AM

Originally posted by JFK

or they are too busy making money, to be involved in the daily drama

stupid comment. if people would band together against such practices these people you are referring to could be making even more money.

you don't know you're wearing a leash if you sit by the peg all day..
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TheDoc

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#16

03-13-2007, 11:17 AM

How do we ban together? I see Will on her trying to get people going and people rip on him.

Anyone have any clue how to stop real spyware? It isn't some thing sponsors can just stand up and fight. 99% of the people here can't even explain what spyware is past the basic definition, let alone understand how it works.

When someone can tell me how to not spend 40 hours a week just trying to find it. Then how to research every ip range, every country, every region, every OS and Browser and every software package online, with every link on my site, every page, every submit, at every time of time from all these places.. On every webmaster... Then, I will stand up and fight against it..

Otherwise the 10 companies that pop exits over us with tool bars simply get a C&D and back to work I go and the rest I hope to get lucky with and catch.

Figure out how to find it, stop it, block it, fix it, with your own traffic - then band us all together

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will76

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#17

03-13-2007, 11:20 AM

Originally posted by JFK

or they are too busy making money, to be involved in the daily drama

the problem with this industry right here.... people stealing from others to some of you = "daily drama".

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RawAlex

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#18

03-13-2007, 12:25 PM

Originally posted by Mutt

all this talk about Zango and other scumware jacking traffic and affiliate codes but other than Will posting screencaps of Zango in action popping the AFF ads I've seen nobody else post any evidence of anything else nefarious happening.

the answer is to get one of your old computers or a very cheap new one and use it to surf the free sites without any anti-virus protection and get infestated with all this shit and then start documenting what happens when u surf free sites and try to join paysites.

With all due respect, I have to say that if the programs were even 1% serious about stopping stuff like this, they would have taken the steps themselves a long, long time ago.

The reality is many programs are no longer supporting their affiliates, but instead competing with them and looking for new ways every day to shave another dollar off the affiliates' take. From outrageous check fees, traffic leaks on tours, to "oops, we lost track of your affiliate code on the tour", it has been pretty endless the last 24 months or so.

Toolbars such as Zango, other more malicious spyware / malwares, and outright end user PC hijacks are a normal part of the business these days. Many of the programs operate these sorts of things themselves, and profit from them, often stealing sales directly from their affiliates.

Almost the only true high volume spammers are run in conjunction with the programs themselves, and they often use zombie PCs to do their mailings to make it hard to trace back.

What these program owners don't realize is that they are making it way too obvious now. They stand out.
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SmokeyTheBear

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#19

03-13-2007, 12:34 PM

ONE WORD

"FTC"

Dont believe will76 he of course has his own agenda as thats his bread and butter, doesnt mean he is wrong or false in anything i have seen , but prob not the best guy to be a spokesperson against aff anyways.

Go read what the ftc has to say about zango .. might wanna checkout ripoffreport.com as well

hatisblack at yahoo.com
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BradM

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#20

03-13-2007, 12:40 PM

lol JFK.
Just take pictures. No one cares what your biased ass has to say, so stop talking out of it.
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JFK

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#21

03-13-2007, 12:56 PM

Originally posted by BradM

lol JFK.
Just take pictures. No one cares what your biased ass has to say, so stop talking out of it.

like they care what you have to say, or Will 76, He's making a carreer out of this. Talk about biased ?? Look there 1st !!!

Last edited by JFK; 03-13-2007, 12:58 PM.

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vvq

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#22

03-13-2007, 01:10 PM

Originally posted by will76

the problem with this industry right here.... people stealing from others to some of you = "daily drama".

But it is daily drama. If they're breaking the law, get a lawyer, go after them. They're either doing something illegal, or it's just business. Granted it's a method most of us frown upon, if it's legal they have a right to do it. This is a competition for traffic. While I don't agree with their methods and do not support it, the Zango guys are on top of something. And when you're on top, everyone hates you.

It's no different than the blackhat guys that cheat there way to the top of the serps. "Legit" people get fucked. But if it's legal, it's legal. You just gotta adapt and protect your traffic.

Learning to adapt is the key to this industry. Whining will get you nothing but a lot of lost time.

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jayeff

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#23

03-13-2007, 01:20 PM

Originally posted by JFK

like they care what you have to say, or Will 76, He's making a carreer out of this. Talk about biased ??

And you trying to trivialize the scumware issue into "will76 vs the world" makes a positive contribution how exactly? If Will suffered from terminal flatulence and had been promised a day's relief by someone for every post he wrote, it wouldn't make an iota of difference to the underlying issue.

Anyway, what does "bias" have to do with anything? You are surely not suggesting that the use of scumware could possibily fall within the definition of legitimate competition?
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jayeff

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#24

03-13-2007, 01:35 PM

Originally posted by vvq

They're either doing something illegal, or it's just business.

Bullsh*t. The law must by its nature always lag behind events and sometimes never catches up. "Just business" is when you gain an advantage over a competitor without damaging your industry in the process. Scumware is damaging because whether the law calls it such or not, it is to all practical intents and purposes, theft.

Another point you seem to be missing entirely, is that while AFF, Sexsearch and the rest have the right to choose the direction of their businesses, everyone else has the right to decide how to react to those choices.
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Mutt

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#25

03-13-2007, 01:47 PM

sadly yes he is suggesting that scumware would fall into the category of 'legitimate competition' and more and more the bigger players and those who kiss their ass will do the same. there was a time when most big programs didn't spam(mail spam), then one by one they started and soon almost everybody had a fairly big spam operation. this is a business where people will do anything to at least keep their income where it was - that's why when u dig into this you will find names from the past, people who couldn't compete with the second wave of big affiliate programs like Bangbros and NastyDollars and tons of medium sized programs plus small guys who used the TGP/MGP game to make a fortune - all taking money and surfers away from them. I see them migrating back to adult now and the only avenue to big money again for these people will be this kind of crap.

i took a look at a new program the other day - it was like a flashback to 1999, definitely one of the old school program owners back for a second kick at the can.

I moved my sites to Vacares Hosting. I've saved money, my hair is thicker, lost some weight too! Thanks Sly!
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vvq

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#26

03-13-2007, 01:51 PM

Originally posted by jayeff

Bullsh*t. The law must by its nature always lag behind events and sometimes never catches up. "Just business" is when you gain an advantage over a competitor without damaging your industry in the process. Scumware is damaging because whether the law calls it such or not, it is to all practical intents and purposes, theft.

Another point you seem to be missing entirely, is that while AFF, Sexsearch and the rest have the right to choose the direction of their businesses, everyone else has the right to decide how to react to those choices.

The law is the law. We all operate on the basis of what the is law, not what we think should be. There are people all over this country that think what we do in this industry should be illegal. But thankfully this country operates on what is law, not what people think it should be. We don't allow people to become vigilantes and enforce what they think should be law or will someday be law.

If there is something illegal going on here, by all means go after them. I don't like what they're doing. I believe it's unethical. But then again there are also some people of this country that believe selling porn is unethical. The law says what we can and cannot legally do.

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OzMan

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#27

03-13-2007, 01:54 PM

Originally posted by Mutt

you misunderstood me - I know we have lots of documented evidence of Zango stealing traffic but there are people talking about lots of other scum bags out there and saying that affiliate codes are being rewritten, redirects on join pages etc - i haven't seen anybody screencap anything but the Zango stuff.

I misunderstood you too and I agree that Zango is not the biggest offender. The fake video codec (zlob) guys are much more widespread according to the list below from Sunbelt and it's understandable as their method of install is so easy and tempting for Joe surfer who wants to see that porn clip.

It's good to see they have gotten a lot of attention lately on GFY

Top 10 Malware Threats February 2007

1. Trojan-Downloader.Zlob.Media-C 2.44%

2. Trojan.FakeAlert 1.32%

3. Virtumonde 0.68%

4. Zango.CommonElements 0.40%

5. WinSpy 0.40%

6. Zango.SearchAssistant 0.39%

7. SpySheriff 0.39%

8. Command Service 0.38%

9. 180solutions.SearchAssistant 0.33%

10. Trojan-Downloader.Gen 0.33%
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JFK

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#28

03-13-2007, 01:59 PM

Originally posted by jayeff

And you trying to trivialize the scumware issue into "will76 vs the world" makes a positive contribution how exactly? If Will suffered from terminal flatulence and had been promised a day's relief by someone for every post he wrote, it wouldn't make an iota of difference to the underlying issue.

Anyway, what does "bias" have to do with anything? You are surely not suggesting that the use of scumware could possibily fall within the definition of legitimate competition?

Please dont twist my words around, everyone is biased one way or the other. If you dont like a program "STOP USING IT" it will send the message loud and clear. A Lot louder, than having daily drama about it on GFY

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Major (Tom)

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#29

03-13-2007, 02:38 PM

Originally posted by Mutt

sadly yes he is suggesting that scumware would fall into the category of 'legitimate competition' and more and more the bigger players and those who kiss their ass will do the same. there was a time when most big programs didn't spam(mail spam), then one by one they started and soon almost everybody had a fairly big spam operation. this is a business where people will do anything to at least keep their income where it was - that's why when u dig into this you will find names from the past, people who couldn't compete with the second wave of big affiliate programs like Bangbros and NastyDollars and tons of medium sized programs plus small guys who used the TGP/MGP game to make a fortune - all taking money and surfers away from them. I see them migrating back to adult now and the only avenue to big money again for these people will be this kind of crap.

i took a look at a new program the other day - it was like a flashback to 1999, definitely one of the old school program owners back for a second kick at the can.

SO true bro.
Duke
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