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for those who know how to post a story.. instead of just a link....


AP
UAW leader says no more concessions
Saturday November 15, 1:07 pm ET
By Mark Williams, AP Business Writer
UAW president insists workers will make no more concessions; says workers have done enough


COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) -- Even as Detroit's Big Three teeter on collapse, United Auto Workers President Ron Gettelfinger says workers will not make any more concessions and that getting the automakers back on their feet means figuring out a way to turn around the slumping economy.
Gettelfinger also on Saturday called on Congress to act quickly on a bailout plan for the auto industry. He says something needs to be done before President-elect Obama takes office in January.

Gettelfinger says it is unfair to call on workers to make more sacrifices, noting that previous cuts workers have agreed to have helped steady the automakers.

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Spunky

Live by the sword and die by it.

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Barefootsies

Don't tell fawkedup.

He'll blow a gasket about the UAW stance.

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ottyhotties

As a Michigander who has seen auto worker union men talk all my life I say Chapter 11 to them. Rip up the contracts and slash executive pay to hourly worker wages until they finally start making profits again.

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~Ray

if they de-list their stock, they can dump the union, restructure and re-list with even more power.

But, which auto exec is brave enough to take the bullet?

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Net Money

I say FUCK all these govt bailouts. All these auto makers, banks ect have a few top people making millions if not billions as the companies are about bankrupt, well Fuck the govt for giving them any of my hard earned money to bail them out. Govt bailouts are a bunch of crap, I don't see any bailout coming our way if we run into bad times.. First fire all the top people in all these companies and that money alone may save these companies, But I DO NOT give consent to use 1 cent of my money to let some fuck face ceo get some fat x-mas bonus.!!!

Sly

Maybe some industries need to fail so they can restructure and build a quality product, eliminate wasteful spending, and build up a "good company" instead of "cushy jobs". One step back for two steps forward.

What bailout will be next?

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IllTestYourGirls

If the auto companies did not save for a rainy day then they ran a poor business and should fail.

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Doctor Dre

If the unions are going to play like that, I say fuck them...

The economy affect everyone, if they think they are above others, that they don't need to change their habbits and that everybody except them must pay for it, they don't deserve a single gov penny.

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- Jesus Christ -

FUck the union fuck the manufacturers. FUCK EVEYONE
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Amen

farkedup

exactly what I've been saying... unions cooperating were the only hope GM had to avoid Chapter 11. Since they won't FUCK THEM, fire them all and give them an option to keep their jobs at half price or walk. then when they hold open interviews for non union hires the line will stretch from Detroit to st louis in a single file line of people that'll gladly work at those rates.

I mean seriously so many guys making $40-60/hr for SIMPLE shit... ASSEMBLY lines were invented so a person does 1 task all day long...

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BlackCrayon

The workers should rebel against the unions, they are fucking them over.

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Drake

Unbelievable. You just can't reason with unions like that. Those guys just don't appreciate how good they've had it all these years. I'd wager that 80% or more of those workers have zero skills yet they've been making top dollar for doing something a monkey can do. They're their own worst enemies. This is no time for them to play hardball. Time to pull the plug.

Drake

Something like that needs to happen. The union has to go.

marketsmart

let them fail...

farkedup

Most of those union workers have enough skills to bag your groceries and thats about it

The biggest problem is these guys will be on unemployment for as long as possible after getting canned THEN refuse GREAT jobs for them offering $10-$13 an hour because they're used to being way overpayed.

They've known unskilled labor jobs have been on the way out for like 20+ years now. Most of the factory workers I know have been taking advantage of programs out there to get FREE educations! These guys have plenty of opportunities for higher education yet refuse.

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SilentKnight

Here in Canada whenever they bail out the auto industry, the companies wind up slashing jobs not long after the bail out anyway.

Just look at GM in Oshawa. Not long after they received mega millions from the gov't they closed down assembly lines. Same goes for St. Catharines.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize greedy unions are among the major downfalls of this economy. While everyone else is being asked to tighten their belts, the autoworkers unions are happy to stick with the status quo.

We also need to reassess the free trade agreement. If the automakers want to move their productions to Mexico...we should be taxing the hell outta their assembled products coming back into Canada to keep our domestic products competitive.

Ayla_SquareTurtle

I don't think the words "GREAT jobs" and "offering $10-$13 an hour" belong in the same sentence. I was making at least that working part time jobs when I was 16-18 and living at home.

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pornguy

OK So, they are happier if they go under and have no job than to take a bit of a cut and still work???

I dont get it. WTF is wrong with people in the US.

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Funny how the unions don't see their contacts/deals as part of the problems plaguing the auto industry.

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EscortBiz

some of the best brainwashers in the world work for the unions and usually they get their way

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Tempest

Agreed....

andy83

if they don't give way, then the rest of the people shouldn't pity them when they all become jobless!

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Mr. Blue

The big three made nearly imbecilic agreements with the UAW. When you're overpaying for labor, putting out a product people don't want, and a product that's not better than the competition, how can a company succeed?

The UAW though is in a good spot at the moment, let's face it for the next 4 years you'll have a very pro-union President and Congress in place. The UAW doesn't need to make concessions because they're probably pretty confident that the government will bail out the auto industry no matter how badly they fuck it up. Once the Employee Free Choice Act is in place you'll see the unions getting considerably stronger.

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GetSCORECash

Exactly.

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farkedup

for a person without an education that is outstanding pay. If they go get an education then maybe they can deserve $40 an hour my wife makes as a nurse. They sure as hell don't deserve it without an education.

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GetSCORECash

I hope those that have been elected won't bend over for the Union. I still have vivid memories of Eastern Airlines and how the Union, destroyed them.

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Mr. Blue

It's a possible danger, I'm not saying it will happen, but for a bailout of the auto industry to work they have to address the problems that exist and I don't really see that happening because you'd have to address the issue of the UAW and no politician is going to bite the hand that got them elected and re-elected down the line.

I have nothing against Unions, but Unions have to responsibly negotiate on behalf of their members, crippling an industry and subsequently putting them out of business is not looking out for your members. UAW though has the possibility of weathering this storm, unfortunately, all us non-union types will have to flip the bill for it.

Generally I don't like any of the bailouts and I don't think the taxpayers should have to flip the bill for any of these mismanaged companies.

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DaddyHalbucks

The unions are one of the main causes of the problems in the US auto industry. Even when the industry is on its death bed, they still want more. They still have the entitlement mentality that is killing our country.

Yea, fuck 'em!

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[db]

Good for them. Let's see the executive bonuses get cut for a change.

Fuck any working class person who is too ignorant to see that unions stand up for all of us. The problem isn't that the auto workers make too much money, the problem is that most working class people don't make enough.

These companies run themselves into the ground and then demand taxpayer money so they can keep paying bonuses and protecting the rich people who own 99% of the shares. Fuck them all. The only people who aren't in the wrong in all of this are the union people.

Of course, most of you have been indoctrinated from birth with corporate propaganda, so you immediately blame the unions for the problems. Comical.

Pleasurepays

FUCK UNIONS
FUCK BAILOUTS


these companies need to die and the market needs to replace them with something better as it always does. foreign car companies have no problem building factories in the USA and making money... yet the big 3 are fucked. they are fucked because of unions. same with airlines. they all need to be allowed to die... just as any company should that fails. we don't live in the fucking soviet union... we are supposed to be living in a capitalist country where the weak die and the strong survive.

[db]

Yeah it has nothing to do with the fact that they make cars no one wants to buy. It's the union's fault!

I may make that quote my sig. You're a stupid, stupid man.

Hell, if we would just bring back slavery, GM would be in tip top shape. It's Lincoln's fault the car companies are dying. Those Negros have no right to earn money from their labor. Don't they know emancipation is killing the market?

The collapse of the investment banking industry resulted from the janitors who cleaned the buildings demanding an extra buck an hour. Those tyrants!

idiot

farkedup

Wanna know another HUGE problem? GM was shitty for so many years and even now that they really are good quality nobody forgives them for those dark years(decline started around '75 and last didn't even come close to be fixed until after 2000.

Now over on a deals forum there are people convinced a tundra quad can at over $27k and 0% interest is a far better deal than a quad cab dodge at $15k or a Chevy extended for $22k all brand new and all very obtainable. Hell chevy's with the full interior can be had under 22k even.

GUYS, we're not saying the union is the only problem!

GM has a shitload of problems from top to bottom. 2 things tha ABSOLUTELY have to happen to turn GM into a profitable company. Kill executive bonuses and force the union out. 30% reduction in labor costs across the board would help a TON the problem is the union doesn't realize that if GM goes under they're out of a job! I've watched factories close all over my region completely due to these union fucktards believing that GM NEEDS them. The car companies have come out and told them take this offer or we close your plant. The union refuses the offer then is shocked when the plant gets closed.

If you want a job do what it takes to get and keep one!

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tony286

Thank you well said. also most here dont seem to realize keep cutting middle class incomes and they have less to spend on things like say memberships.

tony286

There goes that union argument, Toyota nonunion pays more here in the usa.
http://www.wzzm13.com/news/news_arti...?storyid=69568
its executive incompetence not the union.

Sly

That doesn't exactly throw the Union argument out the door. One of the biggest powers of a union is protecting jobs, keeping people from being fired. Now I certainly don't believe that a good employee should simply be fired, but I also believe that bad employees should be removed because a bad employee simply poisons the well that everyone drinks from.

The issue goes beyond unions... unions are simply one part of it. Dead weight in office, lack of innovation, unfair trade laws with other countries, etc. etc.

I would need to do some fact checking... but today I was told that Kia and Hyundai sold over 700,000 vehicles in the United States last year. American companies are only allowed to sell 6500 vehicles in South Korea per year. The number two foreign selling car in China is the Buick. several Latin American countries charge luxury taxes on American cars that basically double the price.

If those numbers are true, something is seriously wrong there on a policy level. I know that we are having trade problems with China, but with a country like South Korea (whom we are friends with) we should have a more fair trade policy.

So yes, auto companies are at fault... so are foreign trade policies... and I'm sure there are even more people at fault... we can say oil just to get it out there. Everybody needs to work together and find a solution, stonewalling simply hurts us all.

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farkedup

great read but it didn't say anything about how much is going out to the retired workers... Paying all that retirement should be up to the UNION to take care of and last I checked GM is paying out more to retired workers than it is for their current workforce!

I HATE how much money the unions actually waste, money that would normally go into the workers pockets end up dining shitloads of politicians and buying people off. Fuck the unions, put all the money into the pocket of the WORKERS. Unions don't really protect you from shit.

Also how much on average are those $50k/yr workers sending to the unions?
What is the average paycheck of the people running the union?
Expense reports on the UAW?

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Sly

That's another great issue to bring up... retired employees. Toyota and other Asian companies are fairly young, yes? Ford and the other American companies are ancient and probably shelling out benefits to thousands and thousands and thousands of retired employees. That money has to come from somewhere.

I think airlines have a similar problem... hell, I think the government has the same problem.

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GetSCORECash

Correct they do. But it's not the pay, that is the issue with the Union.

It's health care, and how a job is done within the plant.

Toyota employees have to pay a co-pay to see a doctor. GM Union staff do not pay a co-pay. I pay a co-pay, why can't they?

In a GM plant, everyone has a particular task... Don't you try to clean the floor, you will be takeing away Union job from someone.

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Drake

It's definitely not the union alone that is the problem. I'm the last person to suggest it's ok for management to be banking millions when a company is heading south. That is ultimate corruption, with few exceptions.

I can't say with any certainty where this problem begins and ends. I think that many of those 'foreign' cars are part owned by American auto manufacturers too, so who knows the real reasons why things have gotten so screwed up.

If it's true that American cars are limited on exports and overhead for retired union workers outpaces the current workforce, I could actually fathom the management saying to themselves "fuck this, we aren't allowed to sell overseas due to unfair trade and regulation, and the unions cannot be satiated, so we'll just take our millions in bonuses out of an unwinnable situation and let the ship sink".

Whatever the reasons, it's a trip that ordinary folks are having to chime in with suggestions on how fortune 500 companies should be running themselves, because we're footing their bailout bill. It's plain bizarre that we're even having this discussion.

farkedup

road construction, ANYTHING unionized is total bullshit. Makes it damn near impossible to fire a bad employee and everybody gets the "not my job" mentality. Shit would get done if people would simply work when there's work to do. Unions have made people lazier because they basically can't get fired.

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SilentKnight

If I were a gamblin' man - I'd wager heavy you're a unionized autoworker with self-interest in mind.

If not...you're one dumb sob.

MikeSmoke

Years ago, I in was management at a company that had, over time, made so many concessions that our union contract was so onorous that it was driving us out of business. All of our competitors had much more livable union contracts, and I kept telling the union (whose stewards and members I had all known personally for years) that this was no joke, if they didn't give us the concessions we needed, the company was going to turn out the lights on all of them. And that they really had only one choice: to say "We really had it good all these years, but times are changing and we have to change with them to keep our jobs."
But their position was "your owners have plenty of money - we're not giving an inch" --- no matter how often I tried to explain that the owners' personal money was not the COMPANY'S money, and that the company was losing tens of millions a year.

Guess what happened.
And because of industry-wide consolidation, many of the people who lost their jobs were never able to get a job in the same industry again.

PS I say this as someone who many years before, was a shop steward at that same company - so it's not an anti-union diatribe. It's a "reality matters" story.

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tony286

why is he dumb he is right. Management fucked up not the guy busting his fucking ass. Toyota pays well because it doesnt want the uaw in, get rid of the uaw and you have another industry where people will make shit.Its the middle class that keeps the usa humming.
Once again the middle class are the biggest buyers of porn.

Kick Ass Chat

Agreed mate...

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Mr. Blue

Actually, it is to some extent. I'll explain in brief, but the UAW agreement basically tacks on another $2500 or so per automobile. The Big three couldn't produce the smaller, cheaper, fuel efficient, subcompact car in America because of the profit margins would be next to nill.

It's one of the reasons Ford had to build the Ford Fiesta down in Mexico, it was just not cost effective to build that type of car in America when you add on that amount per car. So the UAW basically has dictated the type of car that can be built by the big three.

Non-union foreign car companies can produce the cheaper subcompact car in American factories because the wages and benefits are lower cost.

Now, I'm not blaming the Union entirely, but they need to take their share of blame with this problem.

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tony286

No where in the article I posted did it talk about $56 an hour in fact they said toyota actually paid their workers better.