Barefootsies

The good, the bad, the ugly.

I keep getting this thing recommended to me for social network, and CMS projects. I have heard plenty about it, but never spent any time really looking at it. Who's used it, and why is it so magical?

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CyberHustler

Barefootsies

It seems drupal (sp?) and Joomla are the two that keep getting recommended.

One of my CMS (custom) runs on PHP/MySQL. So not sure if these others are just better, or what.

I am not a programmer, just a client who knows how to sell, and how I need things. My skills stopped years ago on HTML, and I now contract out all coding, and designer work. Impossible to find a good, consistent, coder and designer.

But on bids for different projects, these two languages keep getting mentioned.

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Libertine

Joomla sucks.

Bloated and often insecure.

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Libertine

Drupal is better than Joomla, imo.

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Adult Creative Labs

Joomla is huge. You can really manage a megasite with it.

I do find that the admin panel is not as intuitive as other freebies and can take a while to get used to. Once you figure it out, you'll be doing dozens of pages with different content in no time.

Since it has so many features, it can run heavy on the server, but unless you're hosting on a VPS and have 30K a day, it shouldn't be a problem.

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Barefootsies

Very nice detailed info.


Yes. The site(s) I am looking at/rebuild are more than a standard cookie cutter site. They need more features, and ability for add on's. I am not worried about them having 30k visitors, or a dedi server.

I am more interested in them being able to do what I want, and making sure that it's not going to be slow loading, or run into memory or other issues down the line as the DB gets larger.

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Libertine

Drupal can be adapted further than Joomla, has better user management, better SEO features (even with SEO packages, Joomla still suffers from unstable urls), less of a server load, and slightly better security. It's also harder to learn, though not as hard to maintain.

Examples of sites using Drupal:
http://www.theonion.com/
http://www.observer.com/
http://www.blufftontoday.com/
http://www.savannahnow.com/

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NickPapageorgio

Is drupal php/mySql based as well? What makes it harder to learn? I've just started getting my feet wet with Joomla and to this point I was impressed with it seeing as how it was free and open source. I'm always open to something better though.

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Barefootsies

I am not so much worries about cost. I am interested in..

1. Resource management. I want it to be stable, and not run into RAM/Mem issues.

2. Speed.

3. Expandability.

This site(s) are going to last for decades. So they need to be able to grow without a new CMS every few years. So it has to be a system that can be upgraded, and expanded easily without complete rebuilds.

4. Function.

They need to handle existing needs for 100,000's of images, 10,000's of video, easily sorted and maintained. Searchable. Easy control panel.

5. Easy CSS.

Every few years I like to update sites. So the CSS must be able to swap out fairly easily to upgrades. Both for overhauls, but for building in adnetwork, and other things as you evolve.

6. Ease of payment gateway, API on membership sites.

7. Secure membership, and back end.

Those are not in order, and just things that come to mind.

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BSleazy

It's nice. I've used it in the past but I just tried installing it on a phatservers virtual account for something earlier and had problems on install.

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BSleazy

1000's of quality free templates too.

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crockett

Joomla isn't bad if you want to use one of the many components that have been made for it. It likely has the most high quality ones vs any other CMS's but it's a bit bulky.

If you are going to do something custom then I'd go with http://modxcms.com because it';s more of a framework and isn't so bulky. Only draw back is the community isn't as big as Joomla's.

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Barefootsies

What kinda problems?

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Libertine

Every major CMS should be able to handle this.

Drupal > Joomla, here. But only slightly.

Don't use Joomla.

Drupal is good for this.

MODx pwns here.

All could handle this, but only up to a point. Drupal would probably do slightly better than Joomla.

For a seriously large project, though, expect quite a bit of custom work needing to be done.

All can handle this easily.

All can handle this, but you might need some custom work.

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Barefootsies

Thanks mate.

I am not a programmer, or designer, so I get the different "techie talk" from those bidding on projects, and giving me their suggestions. I haven't a clue one over the other, and if it were just some website I was fucking with in the "hopes" of making money I would not care.

But... that is not the case.

For one, it's a membership site rebuild that does make money. So I just need a more stable, long term platform then the current custom build CMS it's using. Plus I need some new features. Both now, and down the line.

For some of the other things I am looking at, they are secondary, but again, long term projects and commitments. I do not want to have to go back to the drawing board every few years because of code, or resources.

I am not worried about custom work. But one thing that drives me fucking nuts is that every coder wants to start from scratch, and not fix another's fuck ups. This is the biggest thing I am trying to avoid.

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directfiesta

I use joomla for myself ( 2 hosting sites), for some mainstream clients.

Am also mid-way finishing a dvd shopping cart with great features ( I normally use X-cart, but this new updated virtuemart is amazing ).

Some servers will need over riding via the .htaccess to work ( the tmp sessions, etc ... ).

Joomla has no limits ....

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I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT !

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Barefootsies

Sounds like you are a good Joomla man to know.

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NickPapageorgio

Hey man, hit me up sometime. I'd like to ask you a couple questions if you got a minute or two. 327301858 or nick [at] photophab [dot] com

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directfiesta

will do friday ....

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I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT !

But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....

NickPapageorgio

Thanks bro.

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grove101

I have been working with drupal for the past few weeks and have found it to be more robust and secure than joomla. It's highly customizable as compared to joomla and better community support. The only down side is a only a limited number of modules are available.

http://drupal.org/node/241344
http://drupal.org/node/72088

Hope this helps

pussyserver - BANNED FOR LIFE

been using joomla since before the app forked from mambo

can make it jumo thru hoops

but if you use it you had better know server security

I can hack any joomla server ... an although the data is often destroyed in the hack...

anyway... joomla is not for the faint of heart

GrouchyAdmin

I've seen more shitty hacks called production-ready which are not based on Joomla than Drupal.

I'n not endorsing either. Sometimes you need a framework, sometimes you need something else. When you like to use a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

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Adult Creative Labs

If the site is not extremely complex, you should consider building your own CMS.

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HomerSimpson

Joomla is EXTREMELY complex and that makes it hard to use sometimes.
For smaller sites you can always use some other solution like Wordpress, Drupal or you can get something custom written.

I have done some custom CMS scripts so If you need some custom CMS let me know.
I work in php+mysql+smarty. Smarty makes templates easy and allows caching that reduces mysql and keeps the CMS fast.

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Barefootsies

That's what I've done in the past.

The downside is when you wanna upgrade or modify the site. Another coder doesn't want to work on it. They want to do it from scratch since one coder doesn't like working on another's code.

Since most coders and designers flake out. I end up not having the same coders 2-5 years later when I need mods. Some go back to being the fry cook. Some end up being too busy and have their own business to run, and back logged for months, others you do not want touching your shit any longer.

If you could find one, good, reliable, solid coder who would be around for a long time. Then you, or I, would not have issues on a long term custom build CMS. But history, and experience has shown me the other. So... I am trying to find a main platform that is easy enough for another coder to come in and work on should I need that. Frankly, I get tired of the "I do not like working on another's shitty code" argument.

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Barefootsies

Good info bawla.

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Adult Creative Labs

The main problem is that a coder other than the original has to spend too much unpaid time reading through the code to make that $150 slight mod to the script, especially if the original coder didn't bother to comment it.

I'm sure that there's a coder hiding somewhere that has been around for at least 5 years and isn't looking to move. Whoever he is, he is probably full of projects from people that want the exact same thing as you, so there's a huge waiting time or a huge price.

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Bird

Joomla is the best. You probably want joomlapolis community builder

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pussyserver - BANNED FOR LIFE

joomla.org was hacked a few days ago ...

the site defaced and the server compromised and this is the home of the project itself with a security team in place


http://www.joomla.org/announcements/...oomla-156.html


too bad the original poster is a just a troll otherwise I might have helped it

crockett

That's why you should look at ModX that I posted above. It's a basic frame work that you can add to. It has the basic CMS features but leaves you the room to change it into what ever you want.

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Bird

Oh shiznit, I better start looking at Drupal then.

thanks for the heads up

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pussyserver - BANNED FOR LIFE

Ye... jump on IRC and you will seem joomla bots running in certaing channels waiting for commands from 12 year olds

lmao

joomla gets hacked all the time

every release to date has had major security flaws

The only way to beat it is to know *nix security inside out

klaze

I've been doing a lot of Joomla reading trying to get a tiny site built for a friend.

It's not even just the releases but the popular components and modules have SERIOUS security flaws also..

directfiesta

All scripts end up with some security issues:

Drupal Cross-Site Request Forgery and Security Bypass

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I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT !

But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....

MediaGuy

I agree with the slow-load issues mentioned here... and no matter how simple my template it seemed to be slower than it should be.

But I know someone who has a mainstream Joomla only site, and the thing is quick as a whip, has a huge member base and traffic/daily log-in load and damn I don't know how she does it.

She told me she'd explain but I haven't had the time to ask...

:D

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Ayla_SquareTurtle

Anyone got a good tutorial link for Joomla beginners? I have it installed just fine, I can create content pages, upload new templates, etc, but when it comes to customizing the templates, I need help.

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directfiesta

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I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT !

But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....

Barefootsies

Very true bawla.

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klaze

I find that tutorial is a little too basic.

I too am on the hunt for a good tutorial..

Barefootsies

Nice.

Post your resources so I can read up on it a bit more.

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Ayla_SquareTurtle

Well, I installed it using Installatron which is provided for free by Phatservers. Then I just downloaded a few free templates and tinkered around with it. Pretty much everything I have done so far, I have figured out without help. Usually when I need a tutorial, I just go to youtube, but I can't really find what I'm looking for. Google hasn't helped either. I either find things way too advanced for me, or way too basic.

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J-SiN

Just my 2 cents, but...

Joomla seems overly complicated and the killer for me is a lot of the contributed modules seem to be commercial, meaning you have to pay to register them.

Drupal on the other hand is a lot easier to get going but can also handle complicated implementations. The community also puts out a ton of add on modules which are all open-source and free. The only thing which I cant stand is their ecommerce module, which is not ready for prime time. I've hired a developer to create add on modules for drupal to handle stuff which didnt exist yet and a better OpenAds integration mechanism then what existed in the user contributed modules.

Overall id say Drupal is more suited for the every day webmaster and Joomla seems to be the wet dream for a coder-at-heart. Unfortunately with Joomla (1.0 and 1.5) you have to be almost a coder to make it do anything the least bit interesting.

I'm not going to spam but I will say that the site referenced in my sig banner is built solely on Drupal 5.x

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Barefootsies

Thanks for the info fellow PHAT brotha.

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gornyhuy

I have a pretty complex and very secure drupal system running on a phatservers dedicated box. The install couldn't have been easier.

Some of the features I'm running are:
-secure logink, multi user roles with different permissions
-forum
-secure shared file repository with ajax gui
-shared contacts system
-trouble ticket system
-shared calendar
-email newsletter modules
-tie ins to custom 3rd party embedded systems
-bloggish front page
-surveys, etc.


Its working great.
I haven't made a high traffic public site with it, but its done really well with some pretty involved features anyway.

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Barefootsies

PHAT rawks.

The site(s) I would be using it for are membership/API integrated, and probably less that 20,000 UV.

We focus more on conversions that the traffic e-penis game. Hence see sig nig.

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klaze

http://help.joomla.org/content/view/59/152/

This was a good link for me...

Barefootsies

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