will76

No one is held accountable.

If your sponsor is using zango and stealling sales from you and everyone else and they have stolen content on their sites or they are doing other things to hurt everyone else, most poeple say oh well, I have to stay with them. I make the most money from them I can't move to another sponsor.

Or how many times does a person or company do something shitty and then pop back up under a different name a few months/years later and everyone forgets what they did. Well minus a handfull of people who bring it up, but those people are just "haters".

Or how many times does someone do something real shitty, get caught and then say " opps sorry". And people forgive them and say they came clean no need to keep bashing them we should move on....


Fuck that. Hold people accountable. and not just for the next couple weeks. you fuck up, you do something shitty you should be blacklisted for good. Push all these piece's of shit to their own end of the net. Let them generate their own traffic. If people want to be dirty and do shit like stealing traffic and using spyware, and making sites that thrive off of stolen content then fine let them all work with each other in their own little corner. As long as people do not hold them accountable they will continue to get away with it. When they get caught (and they know they can't bs their way out of it), they say they are sorry because they know 9 out of 10 people will say " wow that is so big of you, glad to see you know you were wrong and stopped doing it, way to go, class act!" The fucker only stopped because he was caught but you dumb fucks want to congratulate him.

EVERYONE needs to be held accountable. Don't send them traffic. If a particular host wants to host these types of sites then don't use that host. If a certain billing company processes for them don't use that company. If a webdesigner does design for them, use a different webdesigner. If a photographer shoots for them use someone else. If another company does cross sales with them don't use that company either. It will be a pain in the ass in the beginning to sort out the good from the bad and make people pick sides but once you clearly know who do do business with it will be easy.

Most of them will still get by and i am sure some people will still promote them and just work for them. But some people who don't care who they do business with will be forced to do the right thing and stop doing business with these shitty people/companies because it will cost them more money by losing all their legit clients.

If you are a surfer if nothing else just bump threads that call these people out. If you do business with these sites then don't bitch about how everything is going to shit, you have no one to blame but yourself why things are the way they are. Stop supporting them.

Everyone gets mad their content is being stolen but most of them will still send traffic to the sponsors who are profiting off of those sites. Not all dating and cam companies advertise on sites with stolen content.There are some that will not allow it. Take DatingGold for example, when the zango stuff came out they decided it was shitty and wouldn't do it. They marketed their site as an alternative dating site for those people who did not want to promote AFF and support their practices. I bet they had a decent amount of people switch over. If a company wants to go honest I bet they could make more money from it, especially in the long run. However Dating Gold wipped out everything they accomplished by not blocking all the torrent sites too.
A big spot light should be put on all of these companies and ALL the people who do busienss with these companies. We have no one to blame but ourselves. If people are held accountable most of them wouldn't be doing what we are letting them get away with.

Things are only going to get worse and worse. You have a lot of companies on the fence right now. Thinking fuck it, the other companies are making good money and getting away with it and minus a few idiots on GFY no one is giving them shit. Some of them want to "fight back" and do the same thing themselves. Look at Lars he had to use Zango because sex search was doing it and cutting into his marketshare . It is really going to turn into a free for all and a lot of people will lose. It all comes down to holding people accountable.

Feel free to add your thoughts, idiots just looking to say something stupid will be ignored. If you going to say something like " it wont work " or that is stupid, then please support your position or don't bother posting.

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Bro Media - BANNED FOR LIFE

bump, nice read Will!

minusonebit

Good post. Right on target esp. with all the bullshit of the last few days. Some orgs in this industry are in serious need of a boycott.

Gordon G

I am really not sure why you bother Will, it will never change, EVER.

Its the same old filthbags pulling the same old shit, you will never change it Will, you are really just wasting your time.

CarlosTheGaucho

Allright - we speak about unity that would boycott the cartel and enable to make more money for everyone - let's think like if we were politicians for a bit:

What do you need to make this happen?

CREDIBILITY


- how many big program owners / content producers do you need to give this credibility?
- in other words how much traffic and potential revenue in total do we need to hold in our hands so it will be a vital loss for those who are getting money the shady way?


ORGANIZATION and ACCOUNTABILITY


- Unless is someone publically associated with it they won't give a damn
- a union "against fucking in the ass" or whatever would have to be started and have clear rules and mission


LEGAL ENFORCEMENT


- you need most probably a couple of attorneys on board, with at least one European
- you need to be covered in what you do and potentially be able to sue

Basically, if you need to get enough support, power and organisation ( = also additional funding).

What we speak about here is something like Trade Unions in the adult online industry (let's hope without Jimmy Hoffa )

Feel free to add anything that comes to your mind..

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DamageX

Hearding cats.

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will76

why not. I will do my part, that is all i can do. It's up to everyone else to do theirs. If they don't then they get what the deserve. I just don't think people realize how bad it is going to get.

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12clicks

Someone needs a life. Its Christmas

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will76

Says the person who is reading GFY on Christmas and just making smart ass comments.... At least i am posting something usefull.

my business is my life i don't care what day of the year it is.


but thanks for posting and saving me from wasting any time from reading any more of your posts in the future. added to ignore.

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will76

Here is another one that pisses me off. When people say " Its not personal, he just owns the company."

When Company A is doing something really shitty. A lot of people will defend the owner and some how try to say the owner is a good guy but the company is bad. WTF ? the owner is the one profiting off of what his company does. If his company is stealing from your company, then it is fucking personal. No different then him stealing money out of your pocket himself. No fucking different. But people here like to seperate the two. They met the guy a few times and he was nice and bought them drinks so they think he is a great guy but just that his company opperates in a bad way. I have never heard anything more stupid in my life and a lot of people think that way.

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Vick!

I agree with what you say ... but honestly, its not gonna make any difference, not 1/1000.

This is just not practical, we are not centralized, and IMO adult industry can never be.

We are just selfish mofos.

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Vick!

really? you added him to ignore just for that comment?

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will76

its not like the first smart ass thing the guy has said.

Its the only way I can post here is to ignore 1/2 the people. You would be amazed how much nicher it is not seeing idiots make smart ass one liners or fake nicks bashing you. If someone has something intelligent to say by all means please post even if you disagree with me. If you just going to make smart ass comments then yes I will be adding you to my ignore list.

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donkevlar

Sandy vagina today, Bill?

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madfuck

wow people is it really that serious!!!!

tony286

It takes really big balls to do the right thing, its truly the road less traveled. We need more Will's in the world.

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE

Will76...
You are not posting anything useful.
What ya got here is just a rehash of what everyone knows already.

Welcome to 2000...

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minusonebit

Who fucking cares? Its just another day of the year. Get back to work.

minusonebit

Yeah. It is.

notoldschool

no its not. LOSER!

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Vick!

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minusonebit

You just joined the little cunt on my ignore list. Have fun!

minusonebit

Its a good idea, Will. Problem is it will be damn near impossible to get it done. Alot of the big program owners here are work off the divide and conquer strategy. An affiliates "union" is one of the few things that could effectively knock them off their high horses and put and end to alot of this bullshit. One person standing in the town square screaming does little good. But 100 people screaming will draw 50 more and now you have 150 people screaming in the town square and the power of a group cannot be overstated. They know it, too. So they do their best to always keep us divided along all kinds of lines.

One thing I worry about with a union like this is the fact that if the wrong people get ahold of leadership posts or steering committees, it becomes a another tool for those people to wield as a weapon to lock their foes out of the industry or put them at a disadvantage. Then there is the fact that some people simply cannot set aside their extreme hatred for certain people and on their shit list long enough to do anything. They become alot like abortion-issue voters who vote solely on a candidate's abortion stance, discounting everything else. Both types of people destroy efforts to build consensus and get things done. They do not mind tanking a cause for their own personal gain nor do they have the best interests of the industry in mind.

The best thing to do would be for those of us who actually give a shit about this industry to sit down somewhere and come up with a game plan. We'd need to bring some attorneys, program owners, affiliates, webmasters, porn surfers and a few random assholes not afraid to tell it like it is together somewhere and hold an organization convention. I for one would volunteer to be one of the random assholes. I would NOT use a professional moderator (those guys are never unbiased anyway) but at the start of the meeting we would need to agree to a set of ground rules with which to work by (Roberts Rules of Order would be my suggestion) and to make sure that everyone got a turn and it didn't devolve into a fist fight.

The only way I can see this working is if we form an organization similar to the Better Business Bureau (without the problems THAT org has in the way it handles and processes complaints) that allows companies who meet the organization's open and published standards and pay the fee which supports the whole thing as well as take complaints from anyone who wishes to submit them, investigate them and report findings based on a committee report.

I railed against just this sort of thing less than a month ago on Gay Main Street. But alot has happened since then and this whole thing really has changed my opinion of alot of things around here. We need to flush the toilet.

kovacs

who cares about piracy? i just want as much money as possible for myself in the shortest amount of time possible, then cash out. the longevity of the internet porn business just isn't my concern... once i've got my cash, it could all implode for all i care.

design.guru.guy

I don't expect you guys to give me a free education, but as a toon artist I am def interested in what you guys are talking about. Whats a good example of a racket of site profitting off of stolen content, and can't they be sued for copyright infringment by the content producer(s)? And what exactly is zango? I understand completley if somebody tells me to just go wikipedia, but as a college student just getting involved in this world, this fight looks like something I might be picking up and carrying the torch for one day, so to speak. Just an idea to throw out there but why not create a blacklist and put it up on wikipedia with backlogs that reveal shady business in the past, even if the company corrected it and apologized, as will described. Just like E-bay has a rating system, we need to have one of our own.

-J

2nd post ever, check out my first thread!

d-null

lots of people live their lives with no ethics whatsoever, there are people that don't live an honest day in their life... life is short, live it the way you feel is right

kovacs

makes me laugh how certain self-righteous smut peddlers rant on about ethics when they're putting up loads of free hardcore for minors to watch, making money off the backs of exploited webcam models, and generally contributing to the overall degradation of society

d-null

many see nothing wrong with sexuality and nudity

stealing is wrong no matter how you try to justify it

kovacs

says the guy who's a convicted child rapist

d-null

kovacs you are an idiot

violence and children are a whole other evil

fuck you

kovacs

hi billy

sucks that people know your little secret huh!

minusonebit

OK, you need to start your OWN drama thread for this.

d-null

tired of having discussions with idiots that probably still live with their parents and have no clue about anything

posting some random picture off of a website that you found is a pretty stupid stunt, you should be banned for pulling shit like that

d-null

realize you were joking, but some may not realize it, it is in bad taste

Iron Fist

HAPPY HOLIDAYS!

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JD

the adult industry is in a unstoppable nose dive into the shitter with all this "web 2.0" bullshit. torrents, p2p, 'tube' sites and so on are the death of internet porn (as we know it).

The people running the tubesites/torrents/p2p aren't in it for the long haul they're in it for the quick buck and fuck everyone else.

The mentality of this industry is why I'm working on becoming my own source of income and traffic... in mainstream. Fuck depending on someone else to provide a product that I sell and risk being shaved/stolen from/etc. I'll continue doing b2b and so on but the vast majority of my $ is going to be poured into mainstream from now on.

Paul Markham

This side of the porn industry has been fucking the surfer over for years. In general selling an over priced low grade product to support it's method of driving traffic.

It's also talked BS to support that system.

The simple GENERAL truth is an industry that will cheat it's customers to get rich will cheat it's workers. And the sad side is the affiliates were sending traffic to sites that were doing the cheating.

Or is cheating a porn buyer acceptable?

As for unity, I gave up expecting it to ever happen.

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CarlosTheGaucho

Allright so besides some people expressing they don't have anything to express we are facing one principal question:

Is this industry able to stand for itself?

Are there people who treat their business as a business or is it just a bunch of thieves, idiots, psychos and loosers trying to get a quick buck?

And I would dare to answer:

NO DOUBT it is able to stand for itself!

Because, and I am sure all who matter will agree with me - people who matter are not those, who are expressing here at GFY their complete incompetence to communicate.

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CarlosTheGaucho

Any further ideas / trolling around?

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seeric

things are being done man.

we just cant broadcast it here because gfy harbors half the torrent industry now.

kinda sad, but whatever. i guess the piracy sector is also considered. "WHERE THE INDUSTRY MEETS"

we will not divulge anything publicly that is going on behind the scenes, but i will tell you BIG things are happening, and you know i don't bullshit. i may fuck off and play stupid games while i am promoting something, but with serious things people know i don't fuck around.

be patient, this stuff takes time.

CarlosTheGaucho

Good to hear, count me in if you would need support, I will still be in the mountains for a couple of days but am am usually reachable on the icq at least for a part of the day. Viva la revolucion!

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seeric

hehe, you got it carlos

will76

if you need any help let me know.

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minusonebit

Yeah, big things are happening alright. Its going to the Los Angles Daily News in tomorrows morning edition. I just got off the phone with the bureau chief an hour ago.

will76

He doesn't care he's even said he makes very little money from the industry (if anything.) I don't buy the he is doing this because he thinks it will help force things to get cleaned up either. If he cared about cleaning up the industry he would be putting the spot light on Torrent sites or spyware.

So the only thing I can gather is that he is either doing this out of being pissed off and this is his revenge to John and others who keep knocking him and/or it is part of his plan to help his case against John better some type of way.

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TTiger

interesting read thank you Will
IMO all that shit started with paid PA at big TGP some years ago.. those tgp are now loaded with FHG and good webmaster doing hand made gallery are mostly all gone because it was becoming too expensive to post gallery and the breaking point becoming unreachable for some gallery poster and those poster are gone today (yeah i know the more you spent money the more you should do money but the rules have change and the conversion ratio is not the same)

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MarkTiarra

We tried that about 8 years ago. It was called the United Adult Sites (uas.org at the time). You couldn't get people together on anything for long and only then was it the biggest companies when a real big issue threatened their well being. Also those guys put in the money that went into helping all the little guys and scammers and they got tired of doing that.

At the end of the day it's like "Freakonomics" says and it's all based on human incentive and motive. People are driven by the desire to make money, that's why they are here. That desire when weighed against what is considered unethical is on a different scale for each person but you have to figure that Internet culture is so based on free everything that the side of the scale with self policed ethics is going to be light. The only other thing that can be added to that side of the scale is the fear factor of negative consequences which is barely enforceable so it remains light as well.

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will76

Now it seems like the bigger companies, more often than not, are the ones that are dirty. And they can sustain some loses to stuff like content theft and spyware where the med - small companies may be run out of business. Which works even better for the bigger companies as they get more market share.

It would definetly be easier if a couple big companies led the way in setting up something like this, but that is even more unlikely to happen these days.

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d-null

some of them could make a difference

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JD

50 industries