Trade shows, why don't we let in the general public? - GoFuckYourself.com

Paul Markham · 04-16-2006, 10:23 PM

This industry spends a fortune getting itself in front of the surfer, online. I would also think of all the porn delivery methods we need to build consumer trust the most.

The mainstream porn industry has a show and a day or two is set aside for the trade, then they let in the general public. They are mostly aiming at people walking into a sex shop, we are aiming at anyone with a computer. They largely have the trust of the porn consumer, not sure we do but it can always be improved. Meeting us could do that.

So why don't we split our shows and let in the general public after the trade has done it's business?

Spunky · 04-16-2006, 10:30 PM

Not sure if the average joe actually spends on more than maybe 3 at the most memberships at a time..what would he find usefull there?

Paul Markham · 04-16-2006, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spunky

Not sure if the average joe actually spends on more than maybe 3 at the most memberships at a time..what would he find usefull there?

Undisputed the porn consumer spends more money on DVD porn than Internet porn, but isn't that more reason to let him meet us?

SilentKnight · 04-16-2006, 10:39 PM

The 'Everything To Do With Sex' show in Toronto is held like that. They have the trade people for half a day (on first day of the show)...and then its opened to the public for the remainder. And the trade exhibits are usually set up in a separate area that requires a trade/vendor pass to enter.

At least that's how it was set up in the past when they held it at SkyDome.

The show itself isn't exactly a webmaster-specific venue, though. Kind've a hodge podge of everything mixed together.

Quick Buck · 04-16-2006, 10:41 PM

cybernet expo used to mix webmasters and surfers. mixing the two doesnt work well business wise. you'll sell dvd's on the show floor but do no b2b biz and no post convention business.

WiredGuy · 04-16-2006, 10:43 PM

Oh hell no. I'm not going to a show with consumers. I go to shows to do business with affiliate programs and people with traffic, not the end user.
WG

Quick Buck · 04-16-2006, 10:51 PM

apparently i'm an idiot. i've been schooled by paul (the expert on everything) on icq.

he's going to start a webmaster/consumer adult trade show, spend thousands on a booth, get 1million consumers in front of his brand, run promos to get 100k joins out of those users and sell 50k dvd's while finding 100's of new whales to promote his program. :-/

I hope my sarcasm isnt being laid on too thin here. I tried being polite on icq. Nothing worse than a know it all who has no experience.

Paul Markham · 04-16-2006, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilentKnight

The 'Everything To Do With Sex' show in Toronto is held like that. They have the trade people for half a day (on first day of the show)...and then its opened to the public for the remainder. And the trade exhibits are usually set up in a separate area that requires a trade/vendor pass to enter.

At least that's how it was set up in the past when they held it at SkyDome.

The show itself isn't exactly a webmaster-specific venue, though. Kind've a hodge podge of everything mixed together.

They have similar show in the UK, but it's more for the general porn industry.

quiet · 04-16-2006, 10:53 PM

Paul Markham · 04-16-2006, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quick Buck

cybernet expo used to mix webmasters and surfers. mixing the two doesnt work well business wise. you'll sell dvd's on the show floor but do no b2b biz and no post convention business.

They don't sell many DVDs at the AVN or Venus, trust me I know. They have lines of people getting porn stars signatures.

The real business is done on the trade days and in the hotel at night. But WTF that's only a $25 billion industry they must have it wrong.

Quick Buck · 04-16-2006, 10:56 PM

the shows are a 25 billion industry?

Paul Markham · 04-16-2006, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WiredGuy

Oh hell no. I'm not going to a show with consumers. I go to shows to do business with affiliate programs and people with traffic, not the end user.
WG

The mainstream go to meet the shop owners, which they do. They spend a lot of money to meet them, then throw it open to the general public. People who might never go into a porn shop. They pay top porn stars to sit on their booths signing pictures. Put them up in $2,000 a night rooms and feed them.

All to sell 50 DVDs off the satnd?

OK why does it not work for online porn and does work for shop porn?

And stop saying about mixing the two the two are on seperate days and the general public don't come to the bar.

WiredGuy · 04-16-2006, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quick Buck

the shows are a 25 billion industry?

School is back in session

WG

Paul Markham · 04-16-2006, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quick Buck

the shows are a 25 billion industry?

No the porn DVD business is estimated at $25b.

WiredGuy · 04-16-2006, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

The mainstream go to meet the shop owners, which they do. They spend a lot of money to meet them, then throw it open to the general public. People who might never go into a porn shop. They pay top porn stars to sit on their booths signing pictures. Put them up in $2,000 a night rooms and feed them.

All to sell 50 DVDs off the satnd?

OK why does it not work for online porn and does work for shop porn?

And stop saying about mixing the two the two are on seperate days and the general public don't come to the bar.

Good for them, I have no interest in meeting the consumer. I'm in the BUSINESS of traffic management, not meeting porn surfers.
WG

XX_RydeR · 04-16-2006, 11:27 PM

Let the public stick to the public shows.

Sexpo for instance is a good place to get them, there is always advertising op's if you want to put things in front of them.

Rydz.

Manowar · 04-16-2006, 11:37 PM

there is public shows, i think they care more about performers than what goes on behind the scenes

Paul Markham · 04-16-2006, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WiredGuy

Good for them, I have no interest in meeting the consumer. I'm in the BUSINESS of traffic management, not meeting porn surfers.
WG

And meeting them would not give you any clue about what motivates them, how to sell to them or getting them to think better of Internet porn.

You see what an idiot I am, much better for business to lay on a party where 500 webmasters can get pissed for free.

The point you're missing is in what the consumer gets meeting us, the publicity we would get by going public and the benefits we get from meeting the consumers.

We still do our business, network, party etc. but then we open our doors to the people who pay our wages. The porn consumer.

I think it's very blinkered to believe that meeting consumers would not benefit us as an industry. Each person we convince to buy porn on the Net and keep him buying porn expands the money in the entire industry. It's not about a $30 sign up.

And if you think you would convert at the same ratio you do off a TGP, think again. A guy is going to convert at the same rate after meeting a model as he would after seeing 16 800x600 pictures. Please give me something to debate with.

Trax · 04-16-2006, 11:40 PM

stupidest idea ive heard in a while

WiredGuy · 04-16-2006, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

And if you think you would convert at the same ratio you do off a TGP, think again. A guy is going to convert at the same rate after meeting a model as he would after seeing 16 800x600 pictures. Please give me something to debate with.

Ok, I've sold millions of dollars in porn. I know what I'm doing and how to sell. I don't need a consumer telling me what they want. I did my market research and know how to do it. If you don't know how to do it, by all means, go ask the public what they want.
WG

kane · 04-16-2006, 11:50 PM

IMHO I don't think it would work too well. It may draw some crowds, but will it help online sales? In then end probably not. I don't claim to know much, but one thing I do know is that most people that use their computer for porn do it for one of two reasons. 1. it's easy. They can log on and get porn right now without having to go to the store. 2. It's private. They don't have to worry about someone they know seeing them going into or coming out of a porn store carrying their copy of Anal Attack 16.

Most of the people who get porn on their computers don't buy anything to begin with so I don't see how they would shell out the cash to go to a convention to learn more about online porn.

That said, I think with the right promotion big sites with well known girls or well known sites in general (lightspeed, Raven, MILF Hunter, FTV etc.) could maybe do some business if they had a booth and for, say, $30 you got to meet the girl you like and you get a signed DVD and a picture. But beyond that I doubt many people would see a site they thought was cool, go home and type it in then join.

Paul Markham · 04-17-2006, 12:00 AM

If it's such a bad idea why does the DVD/Video porn industry do it?

They have the trade days, they have the bars, not too many seminars. but then they let the general public in. Sometimes they pay, like Venus and sometimes it's part of another ticket like AVN and the CES.

So why does a $25 billion industry do it and on a grander scale and this part of porn does not?

Also the last Vegas Internext could of done with some life in it.

OK so WG is so clever he does not need to meet consumers to get more of surfing the Internet for porn. But what about the rest of us as an industry, would we benefit by people meeting us?

Paul Markham · 04-17-2006, 12:01 AM

This was posted elsewhere and good points.

Quote:

I have been scratching my head for a long time at how little concerned the industry appears with the way our customers, other industries and the general public see us.

It can only be because we take demand for granted.

While a declining demand for porn may never be something we have to worry about, for neglecting some basics (like public relations) we have left it up to others to characterize us to the world, and left ourselves, therefore, vulnerable to other forms of attack.

I wrote this a while back...

"The Hey-Dey of Pimp Lore and gangsta-fly is no doubt still a fervid nostalgia for many of you -- it musta been a blast -- I've seen the pictures -- -- but -- my colleagues and dear friends -- as I observe the landscape and notice the direction of the wind -- I'm afraid it looks like the Adult Biz has a bit of an image problem on its hands -- and worse than that, I see very few of us doing ANYTHING about it.

You're absolutely right. What we need are more initiatives, involving both talent and industry leaders, that will offer the world a more balanced view of porn people, who we are, why we defend what we do, and what other ideas are important to us.

Quote:

Most adult webmasters live by the rule "the surfer is not your friend". I reckon that loses them 3/4 of the potential market, and it drawn the interest of various government legislators. Would they really want to face up to the people when they force popups past their blockers?

beemk · 04-17-2006, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WiredGuy

Oh hell no. I'm not going to a show with consumers. I go to shows to do business with affiliate programs and people with traffic, not the end user.
WG

yeah, its bad enough how it is with people there that barely do anything in this industry but still go to shows. i couldnt imagine it being 10x worse.

RevSand · 04-17-2006, 01:50 AM

If this is the case then I am sure that AVN would let websites onto their show floor on the fan days... The bangbus crew, playboy/adult/spice and a few others already have booths as a matter of fact. Those companies do deal in both realms of the biz but I am sure the bangbus sites get as much play at their booth as the newest videos they are selling.

Paul Markham · 04-17-2006, 02:05 AM

Again from another board and does go someway to answer my question.

Quote:

Paul, in the past Fay Sharp (and myself and some other partners for a while) ran a show called "Adultdex" that ran the same time as the comdex show in Vegas. The first couple of years of that show were not bad, but it was downhill pretty fast.

I can tell you one thing I learned from the experience: Most of the companies involved in online porn were at the time VERY dependant on the affiliate model and the exit console model of business. 99% of them wouldn't have a clue (outside of spamming) of how to actually sell porn to a surfer.

In the meantime, the same companies were spending 50k plus per show to have fancy ass booths to impress webmasters.

The AVN "video show" is a different animal because of the nature of the business. While the retailers are the ones who actually sell the porn, the studios and the stars are really the people who count in it. They have always (since the start of the business) marketed their products directly to the general public, even though the retailers (and now PPV /cable / sat) are typically the points of sale.

Put it another way: Very few internet companies have branded themselves as a concept, outside of companies like Lightspeed, Bang Bros, or similar. Most of the online brands people know in porn are The Hun, Persian Kitty, Tommy, Greenguy, Worldsex, etc. Few of the major companies have actually actively branded themselves with the public, which makes public shows a very strange experience for them, something that they don't really know how to handle.

That might change over time, but our current business models are just not in sync with dealing with the actual public.

Alex

Good reply, pity the board it was on is down.

04-16-2006, 10:23 PM	#1
Paul Markham Too old to care Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: On the sofa, watching TV or doing my jigsaws. Posts: 52,943	Trade shows, why don't we let in the general public? This industry spends a fortune getting itself in front of the surfer, online. I would also think of all the porn delivery methods we need to build consumer trust the most. The mainstream porn industry has a show and a day or two is set aside for the trade, then they let in the general public. They are mostly aiming at people walking into a sex shop, we are aiming at anyone with a computer. They largely have the trust of the porn consumer, not sure we do but it can always be improved. Meeting us could do that. So why don't we split our shows and let in the general public after the trade has done it's business? __________________ Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500. PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

04-16-2006, 10:30 PM	#2
Spunky I need a beer Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: ♠ Toiletville ♠ Posts: 133,944	Not sure if the average joe actually spends on more than maybe 3 at the most memberships at a time..what would he find usefull there? __________________ *YOUR INFORMATION HERE*

04-16-2006, 10:41 PM	#5
Quick Buck Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Free-Trials.......... Weekly-Payouts..... 100+Sites Posts: 1,026	cybernet expo used to mix webmasters and surfers. mixing the two doesnt work well business wise. you'll sell dvd's on the show floor but do no b2b biz and no post convention business. __________________ $50 FREE TRIALS! Every Day til 2008!!! Only at QuickBuck

04-16-2006, 10:43 PM	#6
WiredGuy Pounding Googlebot Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 34,486	Oh hell no. I'm not going to a show with consumers. I go to shows to do business with affiliate programs and people with traffic, not the end user. WG __________________ I play with Google.

04-16-2006, 10:51 PM	#7
Quick Buck Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Free-Trials.......... Weekly-Payouts..... 100+Sites Posts: 1,026	apparently i'm an idiot. i've been schooled by paul (the expert on everything) on icq. he's going to start a webmaster/consumer adult trade show, spend thousands on a booth, get 1million consumers in front of his brand, run promos to get 100k joins out of those users and sell 50k dvd's while finding 100's of new whales to promote his program. :-/ I hope my sarcasm isnt being laid on too thin here. I tried being polite on icq. Nothing worse than a know it all who has no experience. __________________ $50 FREE TRIALS! Every Day til 2008!!! Only at QuickBuck

04-16-2006, 10:39 PM	#4
SilentKnight Megan Fox's fluffer Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: shooting pool in Elysium Posts: 24,818	The 'Everything To Do With Sex' show in Toronto is held like that. They have the trade people for half a day (on first day of the show)...and then its opened to the public for the remainder. And the trade exhibits are usually set up in a separate area that requires a trade/vendor pass to enter. At least that's how it was set up in the past when they held it at SkyDome. The show itself isn't exactly a webmaster-specific venue, though. Kind've a hodge podge of everything mixed together.

04-16-2006, 10:53 PM	#9
quiet we'll miss you our friend. RIP Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Fernie, BC Posts: 25,115	__________________ we'll miss you our friend. RIP

04-16-2006, 10:56 PM	#11
Quick Buck Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Free-Trials.......... Weekly-Payouts..... 100+Sites Posts: 1,026	the shows are a 25 billion industry? __________________ $50 FREE TRIALS! Every Day til 2008!!! Only at QuickBuck

04-16-2006, 11:27 PM	#16
XX_RydeR Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Australia. Posts: 2,151	Let the public stick to the public shows. Sexpo for instance is a good place to get them, there is always advertising op's if you want to put things in front of them. Rydz. __________________ You Dun Goofed!

04-16-2006, 11:37 PM	#17
Manowar jellyfish Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 71,528	there is public shows, i think they care more about performers than what goes on behind the scenes

04-16-2006, 11:40 PM	#19
Trax [----------------------] Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 14,486	stupidest idea ive heard in a while

04-16-2006, 11:50 PM	#21
kane Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: portland, OR Posts: 20,684	IMHO I don't think it would work too well. It may draw some crowds, but will it help online sales? In then end probably not. I don't claim to know much, but one thing I do know is that most people that use their computer for porn do it for one of two reasons. 1. it's easy. They can log on and get porn right now without having to go to the store. 2. It's private. They don't have to worry about someone they know seeing them going into or coming out of a porn store carrying their copy of Anal Attack 16. Most of the people who get porn on their computers don't buy anything to begin with so I don't see how they would shell out the cash to go to a convention to learn more about online porn. That said, I think with the right promotion big sites with well known girls or well known sites in general (lightspeed, Raven, MILF Hunter, FTV etc.) could maybe do some business if they had a booth and for, say, $30 you got to meet the girl you like and you get a signed DVD and a picture. But beyond that I doubt many people would see a site they thought was cool, go home and type it in then join.

04-17-2006, 12:00 AM	#22
Paul Markham Too old to care Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: On the sofa, watching TV or doing my jigsaws. Posts: 52,943	If it's such a bad idea why does the DVD/Video porn industry do it? They have the trade days, they have the bars, not too many seminars. but then they let the general public in. Sometimes they pay, like Venus and sometimes it's part of another ticket like AVN and the CES. So why does a $25 billion industry do it and on a grander scale and this part of porn does not? Also the last Vegas Internext could of done with some life in it. OK so WG is so clever he does not need to meet consumers to get more of surfing the Internet for porn. But what about the rest of us as an industry, would we benefit by people meeting us? __________________ Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500. PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

04-17-2006, 01:50 AM	#25
RevSand Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Porn Valley Posts: 8,151	If this is the case then I am sure that AVN would let websites onto their show floor on the fan days... The bangbus crew, playboy/adult/spice and a few others already have booths as a matter of fact. Those companies do deal in both realms of the biz but I am sure the bangbus sites get as much play at their booth as the newest videos they are selling. __________________ BadBitchesGoodWeed Hire me for all your video shooting needs!! Skype = RevSandx