The New Visa Rules And Their Effect On The Webmaster Community - GoFuckYourself.com

LadyGardenSnake · 06-08-2004, 03:01 PM

Last Thursday at the Cybernet Expo, Dr. Clay Andrews of Epoch and Ron Cadwell of CCBill spoke to an audience of about 50 Webmasters regarding the new Visa regulations and what the latest updates mean to the adult Webmaster community. Most Webmasters became aware of the new regulations in October 2002 when, in an unprecedented move, the three largest billing companies (Epoch, CCBill, and IBill) made a joint announcement regarding the new Visa regulations and what Webmasters need to do to become compliant. Since that time, rumors abound about what these changes mean and why they are taking place. Cybernet Expo was the first Webmaster conference which allowed Webmasters to directly address representatives from the billing companies in a panel format regarding the new rules and their effects.

Knowing that Webmasters would be full of questions, Dr. Andrews immediately opened up the floor without any preface. One question that seemed to be on everyone?s mind was whether MasterCard would follow Visa?s lead with similar fees and mandatory registration. Andrews was quick to point out that at this time MasterCard has made no such announcement regarding IPSPs (Internet Payment Service Providers) but that similar rules and fees can be expected in the near future. Mr. Cadwell added that PayPal, an online payment service, has been classified differently from IPSPs, and merchants using their services are already required to pay a MasterCard registration fee.

Getting back to the topic of Visa, questions from Webmasters addressed what the rules mean and why they are being implemented. Basically, the new rules put an end to cross-border acquisitions. This means that in order to do business in the United States, you must be incorporated in the US and have a physical presence there. The registration fee for new accounts is $750 for the initial registration and then $375 annually thereafter. Cadwell pointed out that Webmasters who feel the initial fee too exorbitant should consider that it equals roughly $2 per day to be able to accept Visa payments and is not an unreasonable fee for most programs.

IPSPs are required to report credit and chargeback ratios to Visa (on the domain level) for each program (referred to by Visa as a ?Sponsored Merchant?). Cadwell stated that CCBill, as well as Epoch, have been reporting this data to Visa for over 18 months. Andrews elaborated on the new regulations adding, ?Lots of people have done damage to the system which has caused these new rules to come into place. Visa monitors us, we monitor you.?

IPSPs are expected to keep credit and chargeback ratios within the established thresholds. This is no easy task considering the thresholds are extremely low and Webmasters seem to be concerned with through-put above all else. Thus the balancing act: IPSPs must continually evaluate and tweak their systems to ensure longevity in the marketplace (by remaining within established parameters), and maximize transactions to remain competitive in the industry. Given today?s affiliate commission-based payout model, it makes the most sense to process with a company that allows maximum through-put while at the same time keeping chargebacks as minimal as possible. It makes no sense to pay out commissions on the front end if you?re going to lose them on the back end due to a credit or chargeback.

One Webmaster questioned whether scrubbing has changed since the new regulations went into effect. This particular topic has also popped up on various Webmaster chat boards. Both Cadwell and Andrews stated that scrubbing has not changed.

Another Webmaster questioned the ability for a Sponsored Merchant to obtain his/her own merchant bank account. Although this is not impossible, the new regulations have created an enormous barrier to entry. Merchant banks must now have 100 million dollars in tier one capital to accept and settle high-risk (code 5967) transactions. Cadwell added that this means the bank must have this capital in equity and not deposits and this has effectively put an end to ?boutique and offshore banks? that were frequently used by Webmasters in the past.

Andrews stated that due to the strict ratios and the enormous difficulties in obtaining a merchant account that can accept high-risk transactions, most programs stand to benefit most by using an IPSP to manage their transactions and maintain low credit and chargeback ratios. When asked about the processing rates billing companies charge, Andrews went on to say that given the amount of front end and back end support required to successfully manage a business for high risk transactions using your own merchant account, the cost of using an IPSP is very competitive and relieves the Webmaster of most of the risk and puts the transactions in the hands of a company which specializes in this particular industry. Cadwell went on to quote that CCBill rates vary between 10.8% and 14.5% based on volume.

Aly Drummond from Python, the seminar moderator, added that when it comes to processing you really get what you pay for. Having visited Epoch on a few occasions, she has found a new respect for the enormous infrastructure that it takes to effectively manage an IPSP, saying that with an IPSP, ?Your money is in good hands.?

Andrews took this opportunity to announce that Epoch is now offering members who call their billing support call center a ?loyalty discount? for sites that have approved this service. Epoch clients need only to elect to participate and to name their loyalty discount offer. Canceling members, whether online or calling the billing support call center, will have the opportunity to extend their memberships at a discounted price if they so choose.

We would like to express our appreciation to the organizers of Cybernet Expo for the opportunity to address these issues and clear up some of the confusion.

sjoerdv · 06-08-2004, 03:12 PM

Nice girl in you're sig

Btw, we will offer cc processing soon from Europe without the hassle these companies as ccbill, verotel etc... give us now in their battle with Visa/MC. Only restriction is that we only accept serious webmasters but we will offer lower rates in return.

NakedBo · 06-08-2004, 03:14 PM

Damn that was a long read, but thanks for posting that

xox

scoreman · 06-08-2004, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LadyGardenSnake
[B]One Webmaster questioned whether scrubbing has changed since the new regulations went into effect. This particular topic has also popped up on various Webmaster chat boards. Both Cadwell and Andrews stated that scrubbing has not changed.

I find this statement hard to believe, unless they are just referring to the scrubbing done at the initial level where the IPSPs can control things. At some point the transaction is sent to the merchant bank, and its here that things seem to change quite regularly. The numbers sure point to that being the case.

Kimmykim · 06-08-2004, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LadyGardenSnake
Last Thursday at the Cybernet Expo, Dr. Clay Andrews of Epoch and Ron Cadwell of CCBill spoke to an audience of about 50 Webmasters regarding the new Visa regulations and what the latest updates mean to the adult Webmaster community.

Um, last Thursday there was no Cybernet Expo. It's this week.

directfiesta · 06-08-2004, 03:29 PM

nice post.

KRosh · 06-08-2004, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kimmykim
Um, last Thursday there was no Cybernet Expo. It's this week.

I think she is trying to fit in...

that is from Last years seminar.. I was there ...LOL

Quentin · 06-08-2004, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kimmykim
Um, last Thursday there was no Cybernet Expo. It's this week.

Now that's what I call timely reporting!

- Q.

Royal Cash · 06-08-2004, 03:43 PM

nice topic

thanx for info

tony286 · 06-08-2004, 03:57 PM

Cool the future can you tell me who wins the games this weekend lol Also do you really think they are going to answer that question honestly Yes we are scrubbing alot more, there are ibill sign up sheets in the back. lol

LadyGardenSnake · 06-08-2004, 04:27 PM

girlin sig is a pic of me sweety

ZoiNk · 06-08-2004, 04:32 PM

Why are you posting really old news? These aren't New regulations, almost 2 years old now. Also, people are saying that the story you are reporting on happened 1 year ago. Wtf?
ZoiNk

Holly · 06-08-2004, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kimmykim
Um, last Thursday there was no Cybernet Expo. It's this week.

Just ignore him. It's that maryjanegraphix/trashman? garbageman? guy. He's an idiot.

sjoerdv · 06-08-2004, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LadyGardenSnake
girlin sig is a pic of me sweety

Too good to be true

Kimmykim · 06-08-2004, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tony404
Cool the future can you tell me who wins the games this weekend lol Also do you really think they are going to answer that question honestly Yes we are scrubbing alot more, there are ibill sign up sheets in the back. lol

I'd just like to know who won the Lakers game last Sunday so I can go place my bets.

BlueQuartz · 06-08-2004, 05:15 PM

nutcase

Bansheelinks · 06-08-2004, 06:33 PM

Great news..........oh by the way, can't wait to see the premiere of "Jaws" this Friday..........I heard its by this new breakthrough film-maker, Spielberg. Yeah I know, he hasn't done much yet but lets give him a chance.......maybe it'll be good.

Bansheelinks · 06-08-2004, 06:45 PM

On another note, a new species was spotted grazing on the North American tundra...........triceratops, a 3-horned beast with two long frontal horns and a short nose horn, was identified earlier today.........

AMADude · 06-08-2004, 06:50 PM

Another GFY public service announcement from the Harlem division of the news.

M_M · 06-08-2004, 06:56 PM

whatever happened to the epoch/MC lawsuit?

Major (Tom) · 06-08-2004, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ZoiNk
Why are you posting really old news? These aren't New regulations, almost 2 years old now. Also, people are saying that the story you are reporting on happened 1 year ago. Wtf?
ZoiNk

If thats you in the sig, then i filmed you. I know it... Remeber me? I was the dude who made you cry during the scene when we blasted 3 loads on you and then we started asking you questions about how much you love your boyfriend.

Anyway,
I'm 100% sure its you.
Duke

Major (Tom) · 06-08-2004, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DukeSkywalker
If thats you in the sig, then i filmed you. I know it... Remeber me? I was the dude who made you cry during the scene when we blasted 3 loads on you and then we started asking you questions about how much you love your boyfriend.

Anyway,
I'm 100% sure its you.
Duke

FUDGE I meant to quote lady garden snake
Duke

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 06-08-2004, 07:14 PM

Translation of the entire thing:

We need BS control and an illusion of listening to opinions from the adult industry but really, fuckem. The folks in porn love smoke and mirrors anyway's so lets just keep feeding them that with a price tag this time around!

Kimmykim · 06-08-2004, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AlienQ
Translation of the entire thing:

We need BS control and an illusion of listening to opinions from the adult industry but really, fuckem. The folks in porn love smoke and mirrors anyway's so lets just keep feeding them that with a price tag this time around!

I'll give you some fodder...

Your reading comprehension is just not what it used to be.

neewwman · 06-08-2004, 09:23 PM

In today's top stories, God said: "Let there be light."

reynold · 06-09-2004, 12:42 AM

That was a long read!

slavdogg · 06-09-2004, 12:55 AM

man i just wasted like 10 mins reading something from last year ??

kmanrox · 06-09-2004, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by slavdogg
man i just wasted like 10 mins reading something from last year ??

ahah my thoughts, exactly.

pure energy · 06-09-2004, 03:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by slavdogg
man i just wasted like 10 mins reading something from last year ??

You didn't know?

gxer · 06-09-2004, 03:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AMADude
Another GFY public service announcement from the Harlem division of the news.

06-08-2004, 03:01 PM	#1
LadyGardenSnake So Fucking Banned Join Date: May 2004 Location: Harlem,New York Posts: 410	The New Visa Rules And Their Effect On The Webmaster Community Last Thursday at the Cybernet Expo, Dr. Clay Andrews of Epoch and Ron Cadwell of CCBill spoke to an audience of about 50 Webmasters regarding the new Visa regulations and what the latest updates mean to the adult Webmaster community. Most Webmasters became aware of the new regulations in October 2002 when, in an unprecedented move, the three largest billing companies (Epoch, CCBill, and IBill) made a joint announcement regarding the new Visa regulations and what Webmasters need to do to become compliant. Since that time, rumors abound about what these changes mean and why they are taking place. Cybernet Expo was the first Webmaster conference which allowed Webmasters to directly address representatives from the billing companies in a panel format regarding the new rules and their effects. Knowing that Webmasters would be full of questions, Dr. Andrews immediately opened up the floor without any preface. One question that seemed to be on everyone?s mind was whether MasterCard would follow Visa?s lead with similar fees and mandatory registration. Andrews was quick to point out that at this time MasterCard has made no such announcement regarding IPSPs (Internet Payment Service Providers) but that similar rules and fees can be expected in the near future. Mr. Cadwell added that PayPal, an online payment service, has been classified differently from IPSPs, and merchants using their services are already required to pay a MasterCard registration fee. Getting back to the topic of Visa, questions from Webmasters addressed what the rules mean and why they are being implemented. Basically, the new rules put an end to cross-border acquisitions. This means that in order to do business in the United States, you must be incorporated in the US and have a physical presence there. The registration fee for new accounts is $750 for the initial registration and then $375 annually thereafter. Cadwell pointed out that Webmasters who feel the initial fee too exorbitant should consider that it equals roughly $2 per day to be able to accept Visa payments and is not an unreasonable fee for most programs. IPSPs are required to report credit and chargeback ratios to Visa (on the domain level) for each program (referred to by Visa as a ?Sponsored Merchant?). Cadwell stated that CCBill, as well as Epoch, have been reporting this data to Visa for over 18 months. Andrews elaborated on the new regulations adding, ?Lots of people have done damage to the system which has caused these new rules to come into place. Visa monitors us, we monitor you.? IPSPs are expected to keep credit and chargeback ratios within the established thresholds. This is no easy task considering the thresholds are extremely low and Webmasters seem to be concerned with through-put above all else. Thus the balancing act: IPSPs must continually evaluate and tweak their systems to ensure longevity in the marketplace (by remaining within established parameters), and maximize transactions to remain competitive in the industry. Given today?s affiliate commission-based payout model, it makes the most sense to process with a company that allows maximum through-put while at the same time keeping chargebacks as minimal as possible. It makes no sense to pay out commissions on the front end if you?re going to lose them on the back end due to a credit or chargeback. One Webmaster questioned whether scrubbing has changed since the new regulations went into effect. This particular topic has also popped up on various Webmaster chat boards. Both Cadwell and Andrews stated that scrubbing has not changed. Another Webmaster questioned the ability for a Sponsored Merchant to obtain his/her own merchant bank account. Although this is not impossible, the new regulations have created an enormous barrier to entry. Merchant banks must now have 100 million dollars in tier one capital to accept and settle high-risk (code 5967) transactions. Cadwell added that this means the bank must have this capital in equity and not deposits and this has effectively put an end to ?boutique and offshore banks? that were frequently used by Webmasters in the past. Andrews stated that due to the strict ratios and the enormous difficulties in obtaining a merchant account that can accept high-risk transactions, most programs stand to benefit most by using an IPSP to manage their transactions and maintain low credit and chargeback ratios. When asked about the processing rates billing companies charge, Andrews went on to say that given the amount of front end and back end support required to successfully manage a business for high risk transactions using your own merchant account, the cost of using an IPSP is very competitive and relieves the Webmaster of most of the risk and puts the transactions in the hands of a company which specializes in this particular industry. Cadwell went on to quote that CCBill rates vary between 10.8% and 14.5% based on volume. Aly Drummond from Python, the seminar moderator, added that when it comes to processing you really get what you pay for. Having visited Epoch on a few occasions, she has found a new respect for the enormous infrastructure that it takes to effectively manage an IPSP, saying that with an IPSP, ?Your money is in good hands.? Andrews took this opportunity to announce that Epoch is now offering members who call their billing support call center a ?loyalty discount? for sites that have approved this service. Epoch clients need only to elect to participate and to name their loyalty discount offer. Canceling members, whether online or calling the billing support call center, will have the opportunity to extend their memberships at a discounted price if they so choose. We would like to express our appreciation to the organizers of Cybernet Expo for the opportunity to address these issues and clear up some of the confusion.

06-08-2004, 03:29 PM	#6
directfiesta Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Montreal, Quebec Posts: 29,684	nice post. __________________ I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT ! But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....

06-08-2004, 03:57 PM	#10
tony286 lurker Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: atlanta Posts: 57,021	Cool the future can you tell me who wins the games this weekend lol Also do you really think they are going to answer that question honestly Yes we are scrubbing alot more, there are ibill sign up sheets in the back. lol Last edited by tony299; 06-08-2004 at 03:59 PM..

06-08-2004, 04:32 PM	#12
ZoiNk Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 2,370	Why are you posting really old news? These aren't New regulations, almost 2 years old now. Also, people are saying that the story you are reporting on happened 1 year ago. Wtf? ZoiNk __________________ "People can have the Model T in any color - so long as it's black." - Henry Ford

06-08-2004, 06:50 PM	#19
AMADude Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 3,875	Another GFY public service announcement from the Harlem division of the news. __________________ No sig, just here to fuck around.

06-08-2004, 03:12 PM	#2
sjoerdv Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: South America Posts: 350	Nice girl in you're sig Btw, we will offer cc processing soon from Europe without the hassle these companies as ccbill, verotel etc... give us now in their battle with Visa/MC. Only restriction is that we only accept serious webmasters but we will offer lower rates in return.

06-08-2004, 03:14 PM	#3
NakedBo Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Amsterdam 139-752-770 Posts: 1,614	Damn that was a long read, but thanks for posting that xox

06-08-2004, 03:43 PM	#9
Royal Cash Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Royal-Cash Posts: 1,739	nice topic thanx for info

06-08-2004, 04:27 PM	#11
LadyGardenSnake So Fucking Banned Join Date: May 2004 Location: Harlem,New York Posts: 410	girlin sig is a pic of me sweety

06-08-2004, 05:15 PM	#16
BlueQuartz Confirmed User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Australia Posts: 1,971	nutcase

06-08-2004, 06:33 PM	#17
Bansheelinks Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 6,023	Great news..........oh by the way, can't wait to see the premiere of "Jaws" this Friday..........I heard its by this new breakthrough film-maker, Spielberg. Yeah I know, he hasn't done much yet but lets give him a chance.......maybe it'll be good.

06-08-2004, 06:45 PM	#18
Bansheelinks Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 6,023	On another note, a new species was spotted grazing on the North American tundra...........triceratops, a 3-horned beast with two long frontal horns and a short nose horn, was identified earlier today.........

06-08-2004, 06:56 PM	#20
M_M Confirmed User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,167	whatever happened to the epoch/MC lawsuit?

06-08-2004, 07:14 PM	#23
AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE best designer on GFY Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IALIEN.COM - High Definition Video and Photographic Productions -ICQ 78943384 Posts: 30,307	Translation of the entire thing: We need BS control and an illusion of listening to opinions from the adult industry but really, fuckem. The folks in porn love smoke and mirrors anyway's so lets just keep feeding them that with a price tag this time around! __________________ NAKED HOSTING FTW!11 I'm On The INSANE PLAN $9.95/mo! \| The Alien Blog Adult News Worth Reading Updated Daily \| Content For Sale! 641 PICS 216 MINUTES OF VIDEO $350.00 \|ICQ: 78943384 \|

06-08-2004, 09:23 PM	#25
neewwman Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA Posts: 1,737	In today's top stories, God said: "Let there be light." __________________ Porn Wealth Everything the newbie adult webmaster needs to know. Buy it, or sell it through our 50% affiliate program!

06-09-2004, 12:42 AM	#26
reynold Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Global Traveler Posts: 51,271	That was a long read!

06-09-2004, 12:55 AM	#27
slavdogg Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 3,570	man i just wasted like 10 mins reading something from last year ??