did you guys read luke ford?

hmm, i think it can be true.

------------------
Life's a bitch

We keep hearing about him. Heard about him a long time ago but at the time there were alot of crackpots spouting off. Where do you find his stuff?

And cancel the visa processing? Hard to believe that the government would give them such huge tax breaks to make up for the loss of adult signups. That'd be their only reason to do something like that I'd think. But hey after the news telling how many millions were spent by the credit companies etc to con the 'lawmakers' in to changing the banckruptcy laws, who knows.

Read it smiled about it

And surfed to my dialer stats

Realy guys 'n gals all you'd have to do is use dialers instead off CC billing and you'll make more $$$ in the process too.

I think shoudl this occur it will hurt the visa's and mastercards out there more then us

Also it would provide an oportunity for a small CC company to grow HUGE overnight by offering porn billing

So death of online porn? Nah death of Visa and Mastercard maybe

Wolfshade


------------------
Get payed per minute!
Dialerclopedia

dialers aren't the solution buddy...


you can't say they're good towards the surfer.... so are 900 lines..

although I don't have problem accepting that money, or wouldn't have running a dialer program, it's not a long term solution... it's quick money, and with quick money comes trouble over time..


to grow big, and stay big, you have to play on the surfer's side... daily updates and such will keep em for a long time... but a bill of 40$ for 10 mins won't so, if there's only dialers left... well, no one will use em, and you'll see the decline...


but it's highly improbable that they'll stop, they'd more likely regulate it...

Mag that's bull and ya know it

First: Dialers come in all shapes and sizes but one thing they got in common is that they are getting cheaper to Mr Joe surfer.

Second: Should CC's fall there is no other option because free sites would no longer be profitable. Which would result in the only choice being a dialer

Third: THere are enough porn addicts around that will pay any amount of $$$ as long as they get their daily dose of porn. I know that from experience I know some of those addicts*LOL*

Fourth: I stand with my previous post I'm not worried for a second

Wolfshade


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Get paid per minute!
Dialerclopedia

Thos addicts are mostly teen-surfers looking
for porn, but they don't have a credit card
yet.

Dialers are the perfect solution for guys
and girls of 15/17.

Dialers aren't the solution for webmasters /
paysites.

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Life's a bitch

[This message has been edited by MrCockTale (edited 03-17-2001).]

[This message has been edited by MrCockTale (edited 03-17-2001).]

Most porn-addicts aren't teens, didn't you ever watch Springer? Teens fuck like bunnies, it's adults that need porn!

Whatever happened to phone-billing paysites? You know, when you dialed a number and it cost you $20 but gave you a code to get a password. That was a decent system, no rebilling though - but if the CC's bottom out it'll do ok.

I personally don't think the CC's are going to do all this shit. We're talking a billion dollar industry, almost all through Visa - they just want to be able to stick it to the webmasters as much as they can. They'll get their money and fuck the webmaster on chargebacks whenever they can.

That was because teens didn''t have a CC to
watch free porn, now they can just access..
31% of the dialer users are under 19. I think
that's a lot.

I pesonally think dialer won't last that long, since the goverment is also noticing this 31% is a lot and it's still increasing

I think more people justy don't know how
much they will get charged.



------------------
Life's a bitch

CC co's are probably angling to be able to legally charge the adult oriented sales a higer rate. That would figure if they are working with the govt, who says how much is legal to charge.

iBill still offers 900 payments or did last week or so. That would be a HUGE industry if the cc co's do go higher on porn charges.

Dialers blech. PO a customer once and he's gone. Please them repeatedly and they bring their friends! They'll forgive missed updates and such but get in the wallet once and they will remember you as crooked forever. lol

Luke Ford is the national inquirer of the adult news industry

aliens are going to abduct all the porn models next year

I just knew I had premonitions! Glad I stopped the cammie thing for so long. Aliens will leave me alone!

Wolf, I know dialers, I've used em, I was gonna start one, etc...

dialers would be profitable web-wide if they'd get out some 15-25¢min ones... 25 at max...


right now, they're a quick cash scheme man..


find me over 100 guy that will come back to the dialer more than 10 times....

then, find me over 10000 people who will stay more than 6 month to your paysite, generating you 25$/month....

do the math...

dialers are good for quick cash and that IS it dude...

you have no paysite with members, you'll lose tons of dialers that are based on those paysites....

paysites hold the economy... they let freesites/avs/tgps etc. live off of them... and they live off of those... it's all about the equilibrium of happy surfers and quality of sites...

you'll have a sucky CJ that will link to a tgp... then the guy, after getting pissed, gets happy with some pics, but he wants full sets, of better quality pictures... he'll joinm.... after beeing served, he'll eventually come by another tgp, and will find another Pay site that will be to his taste.. Bam, another sale..


Take the other exemple, where Mr Joe surfer goes on a CJ, and is pissed of going arround... then he'll find this dialer thing, and gets billed over 50$.... on his phone line... for a 20 min access...

he'll be pissed, and will not trust any porn for a long time..


'nuff... YOU know it... you just love the fat checks LOL


paypal could be a solution for pornsites if they get fucked by VISA.... just like E-bay does...

Mag,

I stand correct: it's bull but you don't know it

There are allready dialers out there charging $ 0,50 a minute, they are from a Dutch company called magenta.

I'm working on something like that myself too.

I agree that as they work now they charge to much but give it a little time and I think we got a lot of crying CC processors out there

Wolfshade


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Get paid per minute!
Dialerclopedia

50¢ is still too much

consider one Mr. Joe surfer goes to the paysite every 3 days to get his fix....

he takes on a 20 mins to do his deed...

that's 200 mins right there.. it shouldn't cost him more than 30$...
that would be 15¢ just there.... that would be benefitial for most, cuz some just go and get a fix every week, and would LOVE paying less for timed access.... say the guy goes 4 times a month, costs him like 10 $....


WHERE this would become benefitial is JOE Surfer that's an addicted and goes twice a day , for 1000+ mins... that is abusing the good thing, and SHOULD pay more

50¢ is still too high, that's saying you get 1 hour access to a site you could normally get 720 hours

you know I'm right

ON the other hand there's Harry surfer that only comes in once a week for 15 minutes

That's teh same price as that $ 30 a month site with CC.

Also this is the habbit of most surfers because they visit more sites then just one.

So I still stand by what I posted here

Wolfshade


------------------
Get paid per minute!
Dialerclopedia

not really... as this joe surfer that goes by only once a month, or twice a month is called a freeloader or other terms you might know, and would rather take a trial for 3 days and cancel right way... cost : 3$

I still stand correct, solution is 15-25¢ to make everyone happy :P

Ok here's 4 years worth of stats analising on 4 paysites I have owned:

1 Most surfers that acrualy take a membership stay on between 1 and 3 months

2 They visit about once a week and logoff again within 15 minutes.

3 That is where the membership fee with Creditcards is based on for most paysites if they majority came more often and stayed longer the extra Bandwidth bill would crank up the membership fee because costs are high!

4 Costs for the dialer I mentioned would come down to the same amount of $$$ then with a CC membership.

5 making it cheaper then that would put most sites out of business exceptions not taken in to concideration.

6 Most members are willing to pay more then the 30 bucks membership if the quality of the content is high enough.

On the sites behind my dialer everything is set to max. quality at max. speed!

PIcs are put in zips for fastdownloading which they can watch on their PC for free(as an option they can view online too offcourse)

The movies and streams are of the highest quality and also zipped for fast downloading(Again option)


So I don't se the problem

But hey I'm only webmastering in my 9th year got lots to learn

Wolfshade


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Get paid per minute!
Dialerclopedia

membership fee is based according to how the site's perform...

was talking to this one guy, he said by lowering his monthly charge, he made more profits... but you might be right on those stats, I don't have access to such stats...

but thing for sure... you claim thar most people don't care if they pay more than 30$ if the content is there.... well, I'd have to say that Most people in their right mind Always go for the bargain... for what is cheaper for the same quality... take the SuperMarkets for exemple, with their coupons..

well, then most will think "hey, I'm paying 40$ for 80 mins... hell, I'd get unlimited with my credit card anywhere else..

you loose one surfer... who'll talk to others, etc... Dialer is a Side Solution... for those that DO just wanna peak in see if it's worth it, TWO want access without a CC... and Three Teens (not a positive one, but still there)

I'm not claiming it's not a good solution, I'm saying it's not a long term one buddy...

you'll find members staying for more than a year on some paysites, and some AVS.... they'll talk to friends, who'll then join... often do I see on my refferers stats from some sponsors http://www.hotmail or yahoo.com as the refferer.... I doubt you'll see so many of those in the following months with Dialers...

with dialers, the same members will die off after a few months... you'll maybe have 2-3 freaks that'll come once in a while, hell I received a 20$ check this month of a dialer I advetised 6 months ago....

but for the same amount of money betweem say that dialer and another partnership sponsor,

well three-six months from now, I'll still be receiving checks from the partnership..


LONG TERM / Quick Cash...

that's the dilema here...


and about your 9 years, glad for you when you started, I still had my baby teeth on

but hey, once a dumbass, always a dumbass they say... so your 9 years don't really matter I guess

hehe.. j/k

NOpe it don't matter except one tiny little point

I was here to watch porn come up, and seen it from the beginning up to this point.

I am telling you now, that should creditcards stop for Pornsites, dialers would become cheaper then you can imagine and YOU BET it will be a long term solution then

Wolfshade


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Get paid per minute!
Dialerclopedia

exactly my point, that they need to be cheaper... see I was right

read my stuff, all I'm saying is to have longterm solutions you have to please the surfers, earn their trust...

whoever does that has a gold mine...


I'm saying dialer as of now either rip the people off their cash, or are too expensive still... but it IS a good vehicule for payments...

Simple economics:

The consumer pays all costs!

Costs - Content
Costs - Webspace
Costs - Banwidth
Costs - Staff
Costs - company building inventory etc...

Add to that the CC processing costs + a 15% profit margin and you will have the avarage cost divided over the amount of members.

The magenta dialers I mentioned are NOT overcharging. When you check on CC based membership sites you'll find the fee to be a lot higher then 30 bucks too

I still disagree with ya

Wolfshade


------------------
Get paid per minute!
Dialerclopedia

I had written something else as to prove my point, but I deleted it LOL...

I REALLY have to work now and this we'll agree, is the main point to this biz lol...


I do think 50¢ is still too much...

but I guess we're both right... as a lower rate would mean more clients, hence more mins, more people comming back, but more bandwith,

and higher rate means less client, less bandwith, but more profit/user...


in the end, it would have to be tried at every rate to pick up the best rate....

but I stand on my point, the more you please the surfer, the more he trusts you, the more you can sell him something else later.... and therefore, maybe not on the current $$$, but on the long term, a lower rate would = more business opportunity with more members, and especially more people trusting you.

Well i agre with Mag:
the dialer is fine now till all the users cant pay their phone bills.. then what?

at 3-7 dollars per min they get charged you wont ever see that same surfer again! it is a 1 TIME SLAM! then that surfer is history. and i bet so pissed off he will send you nasty e-mails! it has allready been done!

The Dialer is a Quick Scam Buck Maker! unless the charges go way down say 1 dollar per min tops and the webmasters gets at least 35% of it you will se dialers gone in the next year or so i have been told by some bigger players. Get That Dialer$$$ while you can!

------------------
Red7
Free Shit For The AdultWebmaster
Have you lost your ass? i can help you find it!

I said it on the PC board and I'll repeat it here:

Ok a few things:

1) Let's not loose track of the topic of this thread.

This discussion started under the assumption when CC's would do away with porn, and I suggested dialers as an alternative in that situation.

Offcourse the regular sponsors using CC billing are a good way to make $$$ I'm just saying dialers are subject to changes too

Now with this being said teh following:

Those cheap rate dialers I mentioned are allready in use and they pay between 20 and 30 cents a minute for webmasters but the dialers aren't 100% international yet. They are used throughout Europe, Netherlands specifically, but I know they are working on an equaly cheap international version.

IMHO in the event CC's are no longer an option they would provide a good alternative

In any way dialers are here to stay!

My 2 cents

Wolfshade



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Get paid per minute!
Dialerclopedia

Irrespective of the cost to the user of a dialer, they provide NO age verification!
As a result they are probably more likely to be stopped as a means of billing as opposed to CC's.

There will be new cc people in the game soon thats all..I think eventually there will be adult specific cc out there..

There is enough money in the porn biz. I'm sure some porn tycoons can start a bank..

Wow! Can you imagine Wizzo as a bank teller?? Lens the Banking Magnate!

no i haven't

problem with porn cc is that they'll have to apply for a porn CC that's bad ...

"honey, what's that card with a "WOMAN" doing on the computer?"



or if you're talking about an adult branch with different regulations inside visa, that'd be good

I really think paypal should move to porn soon... then there'll be no chargeback

well, can there be any with paypal? I mean I don't think so..