acacia

[latinasojourn]

This is an anonymous post from an interested lurker.

There are many adult webmasters who have a vested interest in seeing the acacia attempt defeated.

Most of us would prefer to remain anonymous, for no other reason than much is at stake, and we are aware acacia monitors these webmaster boards.

It is apparent to many of us that the key to successfully resolving the issue lies with prior art finds.

That is way some of us are especially excited about some prior art finds that have surfaced in the past few days.

We believe that the "fightthepatent" group provides the best and most intelligent consortium effort (so far) to assist those of us that have not yet actually been served by acacia.

So I will propose a simple idea. The "fightthepatent" group needs pledges. I know I would make a sizable pledge IF I knew that the little guys that dug around and did the research to find the prior art that makes the case against acacia WERE REWARDED.

I propose that "fightthepatent" codifies a reward structure so that a money reward could be split if a group of prior art finds breaks this acacia "patent".

We all know that this acacia thing is going nowhere, and rather than spend big money on fancy footwork from attorneys, personally I would much rather reward the smarties who actually dig up the prior art.

Call it revenge of the geeks.

[tootie]

I just possibly found some prior art instances today and turned them in to FTP. Won't say what I found for the benefit of the extortionists, but I think it's pretty good. But I do proudly admit being a donor and proudly admit to working at finding prior art.

[Bladewire]

Originally posted by latinasojourn
This is an anonymous post from an interested lurker.

There are many adult webmasters who have a vested interest in seeing the acacia attempt defeated.

Most of us would prefer to remain anonymous, for no other reason than much is at stake, and we are aware acacia monitors these webmaster boards.

It is apparent to many of us that the key to successfully resolving the issue lies with prior art finds.

That is way some of us are especially excited about some prior art finds that have surfaced in the past few days.

We believe that the "fightthepatent" group provides the best and most intelligent consortium effort (so far) to assist those of us that have not yet actually been served by acacia.

So I will propose a simple idea. The "fightthepatent" group needs pledges. I know I would make a sizable pledge IF I knew that the little guys that dug around and did the research to find the prior art that makes the case against acacia WERE REWARDED.

I propose that "fightthepatent" codifies a reward structure so that a money reward could be split if a group of prior art finds breaks this acacia "patent".

We all know that this acacia thing is going nowhere, and rather than spend big money on fancy footwork from attorneys, personally I would much rather reward the smarties who actually dig up the prior art.

Call it revenge of the geeks.

I've thought some kind of reward system would be great to make it worth while for some to search. I will never take a reward for anything I find.. but think it's wise to offer one to motivate others that haven't helped thus far.

More prior art is out there and the more you throw.. the more is likely to stick.

I've read a post today that disturbs me regarding our hard efforts to find prior art and I'll be starting a separate post to address those comments.

Lanitasojorn I've forwarded the link to this post to DJ at FTP.. he's been offline most the day, as have I, and I'm sure he hasn't seen this post.

Thanks for your input and the great idea!

[Stud Money]

Dont forget to email all your prior art finds to Rob Berman, it will save him the time of needed to check the forums for them

[latinasojourn]

Originally posted by Stud Money
Dont forget to email all your prior art finds to Rob Berman, it will save him the time of needed to check the forums for them

Don't worry about this. Prior art is what it is. Tons of it will be uncovered. Even if Acacia does not know about it, it will surface in the legal procedure known as "discovery".

It is wise to put acacia on notice about just how much prior art exists. It is wise for acacia investors to know just how much prior art exists. This whole thing is a scam, that will fall like a house of cards once the word is on the street. It is imperative that the word (the truth) be put on the street.

It is stunts like this that give lawyers the reputation they have. It is apparent to me after actually listening to Berman speak online in a question/answer session that he is not a computer geek. He doesn't even seem to be very knowledgable on a technical level when it comes to his explanation of the acacia patent and what it "covers". In fact, most attorneys are not very knowledgable about the actual technical end of it. Their expertise is in law.

The geeks will win this issue, because they understand the technical end of it, and have the ability to dig up the prior art.

And the geeks know how the use the mechanism they created (the internet) to network the information very fast.

Watch it happen.

[sexeducation]

Originally posted by latinasojourn
This is an anonymous post from an interested lurker.

There are many adult webmasters who have a vested interest in seeing the acacia attempt defeated.

Most of us would prefer to remain anonymous, for no other reason than much is at stake, and we are aware acacia monitors these webmaster boards.

It is apparent to many of us that the key to successfully resolving the issue lies with prior art finds.

That is way some of us are especially excited about some prior art finds that have surfaced in the past few days.

We believe that the "fightthepatent" group provides the best and most intelligent consortium effort (so far) to assist those of us that have not yet actually been served by acacia.

So I will propose a simple idea. The "fightthepatent" group needs pledges. I know I would make a sizable pledge IF I knew that the little guys that dug around and did the research to find the prior art that makes the case against acacia WERE REWARDED.

I propose that "fightthepatent" codifies a reward structure so that a money reward could be split if a group of prior art finds breaks this acacia "patent".

We all know that this acacia thing is going nowhere, and rather than spend big money on fancy footwork from attorneys, personally I would much rather reward the smarties who actually dig up the prior art.

Call it revenge of the geeks.

Yes ... I agree
a reward for this "prior art" I have previously blogged about ...
It's a good idea ...
but first FightThisPatent.com needs the money ...
it's a catch-22 ...

[Veterans Day]

keppin it alive

[sexeducation]

Originally posted by Veterans Day
keppin it alive

good post ...
as long as Acacia is on page one of GFY ...
I will stay out of those threads ...
I realize the heat I bring.

[xenigo]

Originally posted by sexeducation


good post ...
as long as Acacia is on page one of GFY ...
I will stay out of those threads ...
I realize the heat I bring.

Oh yeah, the "heat"! I'm sure Acacia is shakin' in their boots, dipshit. I think I hear your icecream truck running, better go tend to your customers.

[FightThisPatent]

(cross posted here)

I appreciate people's concerns about the posting of prior art and how it might affect the defendants, but two points to consider:

1) none of the defendants have told me not do it, quite the opposite, Spike and Far-L have encouraged it.

2) two patent attornies have said to me that more good than bad will result in doing so (and one of those attornies is defending a client)


Hopefully this should end this topic, and we can go back to finding more prior art.


Fight the Patent!

[FightThisPatent]

The founding principle of Fight The Patent Foundation (FTPF) is based on the 'pay it forward' concept, where expert testimony and prior art would come forward to FTPF to provide their help in a particular patent infringement case.

The person's efforts would be 'paid forward' by helping the defendants in their case, as well as FTPF making a donation (money) or contribution (computers, etc) to a charity in their name.

FTPF would also tap into a grassroots efforts of finding prior art, much like going on GFY...but more formalized with people logging into a system to post their leads, rather than in a public forum.

FTFP will evaluate the prior art leads and assign points...giving out prizes (computers, monitors, etc) to people for their efforts.

Being a proposed non-profit means that companies could donate money and items to FTPF to be used in its altruistic approach to finding prior art.

BountyQuest.com (dot-com that shutdown) offered cash rewards for prior art, and they did some good, got 7 patent cases knocked down...but it goes against my belief that people who do care about computing and technology would want to come forward if motivated, and that money is not the motivating factor.

Doing the right thing is the motivating factor, and in doing so, their efforts help so many.

This is where alot of the money to FTPF goes towards, in addition to its efforts of invalidating patents directly with the USPTO, providing funding to 'little guys' who are trying to defend themselves.. modeled after ACLU.

ACLU and EFF do not focus on patent abuse issues, so there is a void.

IMPA is a great adult industry organization that will act as a watchdog over all issues that affect webmasters, patents just being one of them.

FTPF only focuses on patent abuse for all websites, not limited to adult industry.

More information is at http://www.FightThePatent.com/go

If you share my vision, please pledge your support and help turn this crusade into a new kind of movement.


Fight the Patent!

[FightThisPatent]

Originally posted by latinasojourn





The geeks will win this issue, because they understand the technical end of it, and have the ability to dig up the prior art.

And the geeks know how the use the mechanism they created (the internet) to network the information very fast.

Watch it happen.

i'm with you on your observations 100%


FightThisPatent = geek (i just happen to dress better, be able to speak more fluently, and have good social skills)






Fight the Patent!

[FightThisPatent]

Originally posted by Stud Money
Dont forget to email all your prior art finds to Rob Berman, it will save him the time of needed to check the forums for them

or not



Fight the Patent!

[latinasojourn]

"The person's efforts would be 'paid forward' by helping the defendants in their case, as well as FTPF making a donation (money) or contribution (computers, etc) to a charity in their name."

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha


FTP, I like your style and this sounds good. I'm also a realistic business person. Many people will simply not get excited about altruism as the motivating factor in spending hours day and night searching for prior art, particularly if they are not currently a defendant.

It is my belief that if you really want to see the pledges come in make some sort of tangilble committment to put a bounty (cash reward) up for the information needed to invalidate the patent.

In this way the companies that are currently in the line of fire (Homegrown, et al) do not have to spend their time and resources coordinating prior art finds. What you are doing is invaluable---it is the symbiosis of the efforts that is necessary---FTP finding the prior art, to assist the current litigants.

I am not going to tell you how to do your thing, but I can just about guarantee that if you put up a big campaign such as "$50,000 usd cash reward for the prior art that invalidates the acacia patent" there would be an avalanche of prior art leads coming in from all over the world---and it would happen very fast.

And this prior art is needed RIGHT NOW, for jury presentations in the very first lawsuits.

A secondary benefit of this approach (putting a $ bounty on prior art leads) is that it would induce guys like me to pledge, because I would have a sense that my money would be well spent.

[FightThisPatent]

Originally posted by latinasojourn

Many people will simply not get excited about altruism as the motivating factor in spending hours day and night searching for prior art, particularly if they are not currently a defendant.

I think you missed the point of the 'pay it forward' concept.. Expert Witness testimony is what would be attracted towards this altruistic method.

The "old school" internet/computer people are the ones that are needed to be combined with prior art finds.... money is not their motiviation factor to help..... most are apathetic..believe me, i have already contacted many people...and they just aren't interested or have the time, to help out for issues that don't affect them anymore.

As far as motivating those that do want to search, you must have also missed my point of having a reward system for those that do put in prior art search time. These people would get cash or items.

The pledges that I am seeking goes towards establishing a formalized organization, hiring attorneys, creating an infrastructure that can manage a legion of prior art searches,provide assistance to defendants, and help invalidate patents with the USPTO. This is where the pledges go.

Because FTPF isn't an entity now, the concepts goes towards other patent abuse cases (and there are many more).... our individual efforts right now, help in the short term.

The defendants have alot of prior art already, enough to be ready for their days in court.

The searches being done by me and others (based on http://www.FightThePatent.com/v2/Searching.html) are to find the gold nugget in a pile of rubble.

It's up to the individual the time they want to spend....since there is no reward.. no one has ever mentioned that or asked for one, yet people are doing their searches. I have spent the last 2 months searching, and i haven't received any compensation, that's not the reason why i got involved.

I too am a businessman... found and floundered 2 companies... lots of experiences learned through failure.... so i am realistic, but i also hold to some idealistic beliefs that are exemplified in the ideals behind FTPF, and in all of the great effort volunteered by people.

If you want to offer a bounty (instead of or in addition to a pledge), then I can help coordinate that effort, but since FTPF has no money, only pledges, there isn't much that I can offer.... Email me via my website and we can chat about this off the board.


Fight the Patent!

[latinasojourn]

FTP, I understand your position.

But I suspect many webmasters are like myself. We are not particularly interested in other patent issues. We want results on the acacia issue.

Personally, acacia does not pose a threat to my current business model. But shortly I will be launching a mainstream project that will depend very heavily on downloadable video. So my interest in this is self-serving, I admit.

And that is why I will not pledge until I see a sizable bounty system in place. Everything you say is true about the altruism of the "old-timers" and I know right now FTP has no money.

I believe that could change in a matter of days if a sizable bounty reward for prior art was in place.

In my mind the mechanics of the reward are the same as giving a reward for the return of a kidnap victim and the successful prosecution of those responsible.

The reward is only given to those responsible for supplying the prior art info that leads to the successful revocation of the acacia patent. Small cash and "prizes" in my view may not accomplish this goal. (and then again, it might) but even $100,000 bounty paid to prior art finders who break this case is money WELL SPENT and would be enough to cause a stir on the web...enough even that mainstream media would get involved, technical universities would get involved, it would be talked about on the usenet groups that are germane to this technical effort.

I am NOT denigrating your effort. I want to pledge, and I believe others want to pledge. We are interested in results, not necessarily altruism.

I will keep my eye on this. If the posture changes you will see my pledge.

Good luck to you.

[FightThisPatent]

Originally posted by latinasojourn



And that is why I will not pledge until I see a sizable bounty system in place. Everything you say is true about the altruism of the "old-timers" and I know right now FTP has no money.

I believe that could change in a matter of days if a sizable bounty reward for prior art was in place.

As far as prior art goes, I will say this again, I believe the defendants have sufficient prior art, they are just waiting for their day in court.

A prior art search by a firm that specializes in such, could run anywhere from $3,000 - $5,000 so a large bounty is not necessary.

All patent firms have search firms that they use.... when i started searching for prior art, no one asked me to do so... I offered the leads that i found to IMPA. In addition, my mission has to bring awareness to larger companies as well as people who could be expert witnesses.

Prior art searches, done by either volunteers, or paid-search firms need to have expert witnesses to help in the case.

This is where the "bounty" to get to them to participate is used in the form of a donation. For the kinds of expert witnessees that I am talking about, I believe that this altruistic method will motivate them to come forward.

I also believe that companies who donate computers and other prizes to FTPF, could be excellent bounty to rewards individuals who put in a volunteer effort.

All well and good in my intentions, but the reality of today, is none of this exists.

So while I certainly agree with your position, I am seeking a solution then.

Where does the money for the bounty come from?

And I have to reiterate this again, there are 7+ defendants against Acacia, all have legal representation and have their own prior art... maybe none of the stuff that i found was of any use because their own search-outsource found everything.

Maybe my efforts and the individual efforts here have helped to find something that the search firms missed, or maybe helped to bring forward an expert that might not otherwise have come forward.

I tracked down Paul Mace (GRASP/GL) and he was motivated enough to provide some prior art, hopefully to also provide testimony if the defense case needs it.

If you want to contribute to helping in the near term, then i would suggest donating money to the Defense Fund, the pooling of financial resources by the defendants that goes towards directly paying for attorney bills... you can contact spike -at- homegrownvideo.com

I look forward to chatting with you offline about this, pleaes feel free to continue this conversation my emailing me:

brandon -at- FightThePatent.com



Fight the Patent!

[FightThisPatent]

Originally posted by latinasojourn
.

The reward is only given to those responsible for supplying the prior art info that leads to the successful revocation

Using the wayback machine, here are the web pages for BountyQuest.com... a website that did exactly what you are saying.

http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.bountyquest.com


I tracked down the founder to talk about why their website closed... he said very simply, they ran out of money...but before they did, they helped 7 cases.

They had the same approach as what you have been saying, to offer sizeable bounties for prior art... I have been in contact with one of the bounty quest winners, who got paid for his prior art, but his award-winning submission did not help against SightSound case, as it is still in progress.

I have alot of facts and observations that go into the very simplistic and idealistic thinking behind FTPF... one that I feel does address both short term and long term problems. But my solution requires funding.

If you are saying that you don't like my solution or my answers as good enough to warrant a pledge, than i accept that..... just like I accept the fact that i may not reach the 250K goal, and it has nothing to do with my misguided visions of altruism, but rather general apathy..... IMPA should be swelling with donations, but their not.... I just happen to be public with my pledge count.


Fight the Patent!

[tootie]

I've been working pretty hard at trying to find prior art (and have found a few possible leads) and I don't exxpect anything in return except seeing this hulking brute of a bullying extortionist comany brought to it's knees.

I have not received a package, and it is doubtful that I will because I am mainly just a designer and I don't link to video, but this patent is so blatantly unfounded and unreasonable that I feel like I should be involved. Maybe I'm a goody-goody or whatever, but I feel that if it affects my industry, it affects me. I love my industry, I believe in my industry, and I will not let the industry that feeds my family be bullied by some company with patents on something they have NO right to.

I do not expect any reward other than seeing Acacia stopped and seeing an end to the bullying of my beloved industry. I feel that is probably reward enough, but I guess that's just me.

Perhaps you could find some big companies who would PLEDGE (not donate) a certain amount of reward money to the person who find the most important piece of prior art. If, for some reason, no piece that is 100% concrete in it's ability to prove prior art is found, then those companies wouldn't have to pay anything at all. But if someone DID find the all-powerful, all-mighty prior art proof that was rock-solid, the companies would pool their pledges and give them to that person. It might be a way to get those people who don't feel it's worth their time involved. Just a thought.

Either way, I'll still be plugging along, searching for prior art every time I have a moment.

[goBigtime]

Originally posted by FightThisPatent


I tracked down Paul Mace (GRASP/GL) and he was motivated enough to provide some prior art, hopefully to also provide testimony if the defense case needs it.

Nice

[FightThisPatent]

Originally posted by tootie

If, for some reason, no piece that is 100% concrete in it's ability to prove prior art is found, then those companies wouldn't have to pay anything at all.

One issue might be that the defense team has to be able to give feedback to every lead, so that the "bounty" system (which BountQuest.com did put a patent in for, haven't looked it up yet) could verify what was good or not.

With FTPF, i proposed to be involved with the defendants, much like the ACLU, so that FTPF will know first hand, if the prior art is good and what should be rewarded.

The leads that I send, whether they be mine, or the ones that people send to me, i don't always get feedback... .. i do get the "great job" type feedback, and sometimes i get what is a dead end, what might be good, or where else to try and look.

The defense side tries their best, but they are busy..and they do have their own search firms that they use, as well as their own internal staff.

i can understand that if more people were sending them leads, rather than funnelling them to be, that it would be counter-productive to them.

I'm with you Tootie, on our personal reasons for being involved. I have given up alot of time and lost earned income in doing this, and now, I know the answer is greater than just trying to help, but to further my spark of activism and outrage at being effective in helping defendants against these patent abuse cases.

Patent Abuse is a growing issue for businesses...Acacia is just one that has the focus, there are so many.

After Acacia gets invalidated, then there is USA Video (for those that have video, this is the next patent to worry about unless MovieLink.com is able to successfully defend themselves).

So i look to the short term as latinasojourn has suggested. I think that the current defendants have today covered, I am looking towards tomorrow.

Fight the Patent!

[latinasojourn]

Ok, I like the direction this is going.

So let's try a little test.

Are there 50 people here who would pledge $5000? I have confidence that a strong reward system to prior art finders coupled with a media blitz will get the job done.

If so, indicate it anonymously, assume you will be targeted. Use a proxy chain to post here indicating you are willing to go this route. Maybe I am wrong, but I have a hunch that there is about 50 people here that can put up 5k so FTP can reach 250K in pledges in a hurry.

I want to see a strong and exciting grassroots effort that will hit the mainstream media.

I like this FTP guy. I believe his heart is in the right place. And I am not smart enough to keep an eye on this, and I am too busy.

I want results.

I want a MOUNTAIN of prior art, and I want to see it come in fast to overwhelm the first juries with it's existence.

I want to see a codified reward system in place to pay the people who dig up the prior art which I believe is out there.

I want to use the bulk of the money to reward the finders of prior art that invalidates the acacia "patent".

I want the funds held in trust until the case in finally settled with the patent being invalidated.

Any balance should be used to sue acacia for abuse of process.

[FightThisPatent]

Originally posted by latinasojourn
Ok, I like the direction this is going.

So let's try a little test.

Are there 50 people here who would pledge $5000? I have confidence that a strong reward system to prior art finders coupled with a media blitz will get the job done.

I admit that my original goal of having 2,500 webmasters pledge $100 each is a very ambitious (maybe unrealistic) one.

I came up with the $250K number to have enough money in a warchest to do all the things that latinasojourn has suggested as well as any additional suggestions, once FTPF is up and running. With the pledge goal met, I then go to mainstream to solicit the larger companies for larger contributions.. it takes alot of money to help fight in court with lawyers, so the intial 250K would be backed by larger contributions from mainstream. I have a whole lot more credibility when i can show an operating 501c3 non-profit as well as an existing war chest, as well as immediately actions and results from the first round of donations.

Fight the Patent Foundation represents more than just my personal crusade, but becomes an entity beyond just me...i will be leading the charge, not because i am smart, but because I am pretty pissed off about all this, and willing to forgoe my business interests for now, to focus on this.

I too have a personal reason for fighting and i share it now:

http://www.spokenmessages.com

This venture used technology that i created from my failed dot-com. The technology was revitalized by some sisters of a catholic order that wanted to extend their ministry through the use of technology.

I am certainly no bible-banger, but the point is that innovation is stifled and taxed by patent abuse. I shut down this service just as it was going to start generating revenue, right at the time i first found out about Acacia. I refuse to consider even the option of licensing their patent, in the event that they did find the service. The Sisters understood and supported my principles for shutting down the service until this Acacia issue has been resolved.

I contacted Real Networks legal department to tell them my story (since i own a paid license of the real media server) about voluntarily shutting down my venture due to news of Acacia, and they said while they heard many of their customers call into them for inquiry, mine was the first to shut down... i did this so that i could start up my activism.

I would love to see 50 players pledge $5K each.

I started my campaign only a week ago, and the initial push was first to the boards, to see how many of the proposed 2,500 webmasters I could attract... the answer so far is not so many.

The total below is offset by several larger pledges greater than $100.

My next approach is to contact sponsors and content producers... to ask for their support with larger pledges and/or to send email to their client/customer/affiliate list to maybe get the individual webmasters attention to pledge $100/each.

I have just started the very slow process of finding the email addresses for the larger players and to start to contact them.

I definetly could use some help in this area with webmasters who have their own webmaster list or affiliate list to help get the word out in a grassroots fashion.

I believe that the current defendants have this Acacia issue under control, I am looking to mount a defense for the next wave...which is not so far off..where other patent holders from WITHIN the industry and mainstream will ride on Acacia's business model.

I reference you to my article: Mo Patents, Mo Money: Making money by licensing patents at http://www.fighthepatent.com/v2/MakingMoney.html



Fight the Patent!

[darnit]

i llike the idea of a bounty,

however here's my twist. Modeled after the GFY 1 million and 2 million post contests.

People who may be able to provide services rather than cash (not everyone on the board can pony up the money needed to raise $250k) could provide things like traffic, design services, hosting...etc. All the things that generated so much buzz and excitement on the million post contests.

As adult webmasters these things are just as important as cash and might provide a way for those who cant afford money but could provide "sweat equity" to contribute to the cause...

just my

[FightThisPatent]

Originally posted by darnit
As adult webmasters these things are just as important as cash and might provide a way for those who cant afford money but could provide "sweat equity" to contribute to the cause...

excellent suggestion.. once we can get things formalized and hav some structure, then it would be a great idea to offer other kinds of prizes like you mentioned.

I just need to make the pledge drive goal to be able to really develop this idea out.


Fight the Patent!

[FightThisPatent]

http://www.FightThepatent.com/v2/Searching.html page has been updated...

Tootie found a great lead on C64 DIGI files... definitely a new place to look for digital audio files.

http://www.q-link.cc/c64digi.shtml

Fight the Patent!