Proof of SHAVING??????? - GoFuckYourself.com

Choker · 08-30-2003, 12:25 PM

I'm not gonna name any names so don't ask. But this is what I have discovered the last two weeks since I started selling paysite traffic.

1. Big sponsors shave some affiliates a LOT and others very little.
2. I can send 10k hits to a sponsor with my affialite codes and roughly 90% of the traffic is counted and my average conversion is like 1 in 1400
3. I can send the EXACT same 10k traffic to a different affilate account with the same sponsor, and less than 60% of the traffic is counted and the ratio is way down in the 1 in 3000 range.

This is just not 1 or 2 sponsors, this is 12 or more. And this is not just a 1000 hits. This is from 100k ad day being sold to paysites, and another 200kplus a day I send to my own affiliate accounts.

When I first started selling paysite traffic, the rule ws no affiliate accounts. The reasons are:
1. Sponsors shave. Period.
2. It is getting harder every day to make money as a affiliate. Most of the guys making money have their own paysites.
3. I have no problem comparing my stats with the buyers, my stats are very accurate and anyone is welcome to install a counting script to check my stats against theirs. BUT, I should not be put in a position that I have to explain why a sponsors stats do not match mine. That should not be my problem. I am not accountable to your Sponsor. I am accountable to you the buyer.

I am going to stop selling to affiliate accounts again. Shaving is jsut getting out of hand as everyone is tightening their belts. I think it is time for me to re-evaluate my models, how much am I being shaved a day from the hits I send to paysites under my own affiliate accounts?? I don't even want to think about.

Jimbo · 08-30-2003, 12:33 PM

and the 12 urls are :

candyflip · 08-30-2003, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Choker
I'm not gonna name any names so don't ask.

Then who fucking cares. Tell us something we don't all already know.

MuleScrote · 08-30-2003, 12:34 PM

drumroll please...

xxxdesign-net · 08-30-2003, 12:35 PM

ccbill/Ibill affiliates

Indeed · 08-30-2003, 12:35 PM

waiting for names

SleazyDream · 08-30-2003, 12:36 PM

maybe they just shave YOU

blindman · 08-30-2003, 12:36 PM

why not just sell traffic to revshare affiliates

Jimbo · 08-30-2003, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Choker

3. I have no problem comparing my stats with the buyers, my stats are very accurate and anyone is welcome to install a counting script to check my stats against theirs. BUT, I should not be put in a position that I have to explain why a sponsors stats do not match mine. That should not be my problem. I am not accountable to your Sponsor. I am accountable to you the buyer.

I am going to stop selling to affiliate accounts again. Shaving is jsut getting out of hand as everyone is tightening their belts. I think it is time for me to re-evaluate my models, how much am I being shaved a day from the hits I send to paysites under my own affiliate accounts?? I don't even want to think about.

[/B]

some paysites count click through and CTR ratio may change the more you promote and randomly. Now I guess you tough of that already?

4Pics · 08-30-2003, 12:38 PM

Alot of the programs count 2nd/3rd/join page uniques. So your #'s will not match really well.

Promote ARS, your counts should be 1-2% of theirs, otherwise your click count isn't right.

m0rph3us · 08-30-2003, 12:38 PM

lots of sponsors don't count 1st page uniques

Choker · 08-30-2003, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SleazyDream
maybe they just shave YOU

Did I say they shave me??? I didn't say any names, so there's nobody to defend here.

detoxed · 08-30-2003, 12:40 PM

Yeah, and because they count 90% they shave? What if some of your visitors have already visited them today and have a cookie from another affiliate?

Choker · 08-30-2003, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 4Pics
Alot of the programs count 2nd/3rd/join page uniques. So your #'s will not match really well.

Promote ARS, your counts should be 1-2% of theirs, otherwise your click count isn't right.

Yes but this does not apply here.

2. I can send 10k hits to a sponsor with my affialite codes and roughly 90% of the traffic is counted and my average conversion is like 1 in 1400
3. I can send the EXACT same 10k traffic to a different affilate account with the same sponsor, and less than 60% of the traffic is counted and the ratio is way down in the 1 in 3000 range.

CumSensei · 08-30-2003, 12:41 PM

Serious what´s the point in telling something we allready know?

If you got proof why not post the sponsors?

Choker · 08-30-2003, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by detoxed
Yeah, and because they count 90% they shave? What if some of your visitors have already visited them today and have a cookie from another affiliate?

Didn't say that. 80% is acceptable to me.

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 08-30-2003, 12:41 PM

Damn...

I was expecting proof!

DatingGold · 08-30-2003, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 4Pics
Alot of the programs count 2nd/3rd/join page uniques. So your #'s will not match really well.

Promote ARS, your counts should be 1-2% of theirs, otherwise your click count isn't right.

yeah they do that cause they can shave easier. i hate sponsors that do that.

mikeeee · 08-30-2003, 12:42 PM

Jason · 08-30-2003, 12:44 PM

Not all sponsors shave Choker..

I'll put up any amount of money to prove that PornDollar does not.

Is anyone willing to take that bet?

We count the RAW/UNIQUES at the front door..

PD's backend is best of the biz..

quiet · 08-30-2003, 12:44 PM

Choker · 08-30-2003, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by candyflip

Then who fucking cares. Tell us something we don't all already know.

Morning shift at McDonalds is over already?

Kimmykim · 08-30-2003, 12:46 PM

Sigh...

Libertine · 08-30-2003, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Choker

Yes but this does not apply here.

2. I can send 10k hits to a sponsor with my affialite codes and roughly 90% of the traffic is counted and my average conversion is like 1 in 1400
3. I can send the EXACT same 10k traffic to a different affilate account with the same sponsor, and less than 60% of the traffic is counted and the ratio is way down in the 1 in 3000 range.

Well duh... if you send the exact same people twice, they aren't counted as uniques anymore, and are probably a lot less likely to buy from the same site

SpeakEasy · 08-30-2003, 12:47 PM

Choker, anyone with a 1/2 a brain knows that sponsors shave, and it get's worse everyday...this is not new news. IF you have any proof at all, then post proof and names, otherwise this "Info" you posted is useless!!

You even called your new Topic of this thread "Proof of Shaving" well...post some proof.

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 08-30-2003, 12:47 PM

Kah-Moan! Lets see the redirect pages or somthing with the sponsors affiliate codes to another party or somthing!

Ya ever see a "Shave" page as in redirect or a change in codes? Thats sorta proof and they are not even common like UFO photos.

I see traffic brokers to click managers all the way to GOD himself screaming they got shaved but never show the pudding.

I wanna see the Pudding!
SHow the HOly Grail!

Choker · 08-30-2003, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by punkworld

Well duh... if you send the exact same people twice, they aren't counted as uniques anymore, and are probably a lot less likely to buy from the same site

This was not at the same time or the same surfers.

Choker · 08-30-2003, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SpeakEasy
Choker, anyone with a 1/2 a brain knows that sponsors shave, and it get's worse everyday...this is not new news. IF you have any proof at all, then post proof and names, otherwise this "Info" you posted is useless!!

You even called your new Topic of this thread "Proof of Shaving" well...post some proof.

Actually the post is titled

"Proof of SHAVING???"
As if I am asking others if this is proof of shaving on a wide scale. To me it is. That's all I'm asking.

Jason · 08-30-2003, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by quiet

did you pick up the C4s today?

quiet · 08-30-2003, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by PornDollar

did you pick up the C4s today?

i leave to go pick it up in about 45 minutes

ztik · 08-30-2003, 12:53 PM

I don't shave!

Thrawn$ · 08-30-2003, 12:54 PM

I know wich sponsor he is talking about

Libertine · 08-30-2003, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Choker

This was not at the same time or the same surfers.

Notice the

?
But, aside from that, your answer could be your explanation: they're not the same surfers. Ratios vary, and 10k isn't really enough to make up for random fluctuations.

InsaneGreen · 08-30-2003, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Thrawn$
I know wich sponsor he is talking about

which one? lol....
i hope its not the ones im using.

Choker · 08-30-2003, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by punkworld

Notice the ?
But, aside from that, your answer could be your explanation: they're not the same surfers. Ratios vary, and 10k isn't really enough to make up for random fluctuations.

Yep I realize the ratios can vary, but the hits counted can not be this much of a difference from one affilate account to another. Even a 20% loss is acceptable, but some sponsors I am being told by buyers are showing up to 50% loss in hits.

D-Money · 08-30-2003, 12:59 PM

I know Porndollar doesn't shave. Ran some test a while back, very nice system. Highly recommended.

Choker, you should try his program and see how it fares with the others.

Jason · 08-30-2003, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Choker

Yep I realize the ratios can vary, but the hits counted can not be this much of a difference from one affilate account to another. Even a 20% loss is acceptable, but some sponsors I am being told by buyers are showing up to 50% loss in hits.

question is.. where do they count hits?

blindman · 08-30-2003, 01:00 PM

last time i thought i was being shaved.i changed the traffic to goto a revshare .then watched the clicks and sales go throught the roof

Jason · 08-30-2003, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by D-Money
I know Porndollar doesn't shave. Ran some test a while back, very nice system. Highly recommended.

Choker, you should try his program and see how it fares with the others.

Thanks D$!

Choker · 08-30-2003, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by PornDollar

question is.. where do they count hits?

Sigh, that does not matter man.

I have several times, more than 12 times...........

Sent 10k to a sponsor with my codes and 90% of the traffic counted

Sent 10k to a sponsor with another affiliates codes and less than 60% of the traffic was counted

Same sponsor, same type of traffic but not at the same time, same landing pages, etc everything was EXACTLY the same except for the affiliate id numbers

ztik · 08-30-2003, 01:10 PM

I think you should expose them. Shaving = cheating/scamming in my eyes

Pipecrew · 08-30-2003, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by PornDollar
Not all sponsors shave Choker..

I'll put up any amount of money to prove that PornDollar does not.

Is anyone willing to take that bet?

We count the RAW/UNIQUES at the front door..

PD's backend is best of the biz..

Werent you the one trying to pay like 80 per signup?

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 08-30-2003, 01:10 PM

Choker - What scripts ya using to count your hits out anyways?

Jason · 08-30-2003, 01:11 PM

I think it does matter..

Sponsors count in differant places..

PD counts at the front door.. Others count 2nd page and some even count on the join!

I see what your saying.. I just don't think that sponsors will favor on a per webmaster basis..

But.. I speak for my own company. It's on auto pilot.

InsaneGreen · 08-30-2003, 01:11 PM

hey jason. im johnny, i met you at the ducks game that time. talked to you over at holios the other week. do you have an email or icq so we can talk?. i wanna ask you about your sites.

Jason · 08-30-2003, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pipecrew

Werent you the one trying to pay like 80 per signup?

$84 to be exact.

60% of all transactions. (Primary & Crosses)

Jason · 08-30-2003, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by InsaneGreen
hey jason. im johnny, i met you at the ducks game that time. talked to you over at holios the other week. do you have an email or icq so we can talk?. i wanna ask you about your sites.

Anything on http://porndollar.com/support.html will do.

OneHungLo · 08-30-2003, 01:15 PM

He's right. I discovered this about 4 yrs ago with ARS...i used to have different accounts with them for different tgp's etc..and i began to notice a trend when ever i first signed up for a new account i was averaging 1:100 then after about 2 weeks it would be 1:600 so i would get a new account and it would be back to 1:100.

It was kinda funny to look back at all my accounts i had...the first one i signed up with was at 1:5000 the next 1:1200 the next 1:800 and all the way down the line to the newest one at 1:100

They all do it, they will all deny it, but they all do it. Anyone paying 40 dollars a signup is scamming someone , either it be the surfer or the webmaster... someone's getting fucked

Choker · 08-30-2003, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AlienQ
Choker - What scripts ya using to count your hits out anyways?

LOL, that's a good question man. I have my own scripts that I use for this. I made it so every gallery, every page that sends to a sponsor, sends the hits to my script. The hit is sent to my script then redirected to the sponsor. I made sure I can change in real time the sponsor url the hit goes to. This script gives me full stats, raws/uniques/ referring urls everything. It has helped me determine what sponsors are realy counting my hits in and who is not. I am going to get my coder on a free version of this script right now, so anyone can download, install it and use it.

Darren · 08-30-2003, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Choker

LOL, that's a good question man. I have my own scripts that I use for this. I made it so every gallery, every page that sends to a sponsor, sends the hits to my script. The hit is sent to my script then redirected to the sponsor. I made sure I can change in real time the sponsor url the hit goes to. This script gives me full stats, raws/uniques/ referring urls everything. It has helped me determine what sponsors are realy counting my hits in and who is not. I am going to get my coder on a free version of this script right now, so anyone can download, install it and use it.

how do we know its not ur script counting wrong? do u count uniques or raw?

Quick question would a webmaster program only count it as in HIT for the affiliate if they can put a cookie in the surfers browser.... perhaps this is reason figures vary.

Im insulted that u assume everyone shaves

08-30-2003, 12:25 PM	#1
Choker Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Orlando Posts: 9,024	Proof of SHAVING??????? I'm not gonna name any names so don't ask. But this is what I have discovered the last two weeks since I started selling paysite traffic. 1. Big sponsors shave some affiliates a LOT and others very little. 2. I can send 10k hits to a sponsor with my affialite codes and roughly 90% of the traffic is counted and my average conversion is like 1 in 1400 3. I can send the EXACT same 10k traffic to a different affilate account with the same sponsor, and less than 60% of the traffic is counted and the ratio is way down in the 1 in 3000 range. This is just not 1 or 2 sponsors, this is 12 or more. And this is not just a 1000 hits. This is from 100k ad day being sold to paysites, and another 200kplus a day I send to my own affiliate accounts. When I first started selling paysite traffic, the rule ws no affiliate accounts. The reasons are: 1. Sponsors shave. Period. 2. It is getting harder every day to make money as a affiliate. Most of the guys making money have their own paysites. 3. I have no problem comparing my stats with the buyers, my stats are very accurate and anyone is welcome to install a counting script to check my stats against theirs. BUT, I should not be put in a position that I have to explain why a sponsors stats do not match mine. That should not be my problem. I am not accountable to your Sponsor. I am accountable to you the buyer. I am going to stop selling to affiliate accounts again. Shaving is jsut getting out of hand as everyone is tightening their belts. I think it is time for me to re-evaluate my models, how much am I being shaved a day from the hits I send to paysites under my own affiliate accounts?? I don't even want to think about. __________________ ICQ me lets make a deal 116894466 Need dating, cam, or tube traffic? I got it.http://http://www.chokertraffic.com The Original http://www.chokertraffic.com/ Premium country pop-unders from $1.50 per k. I challenge you to compare this traffic to any other brokers. http://www.chokertraffic.com/public/tabs.php?t=o

08-30-2003, 12:33 PM	#2
Jimbo Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Montreal Posts: 3,989	and the 12 urls are : __________________ free sex videos

08-30-2003, 12:34 PM	#4
MuleScrote Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 4,601	drumroll please... __________________ ICQ 78681003

08-30-2003, 12:36 PM	#7
SleazyDream I'm here for SPORT Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phone # (401) 285-0696 Posts: 41,470	maybe they just shave YOU __________________ This dog, is dog, a dog, good dog, way dog, to dog, keep dog, an dog, idiot dog, busy dog, for dog, 20 dog, seconds dog! Now read without the word dog.

08-30-2003, 12:41 PM	#15
CumSensei Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Sweden Posts: 3,986	Serious what´s the point in telling something we allready know? If you got proof why not post the sponsors? __________________ CumSensei say: SEO traffic makes big boom boom.

08-30-2003, 12:35 PM	#5
xxxdesign-net My hips don't lie Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 10,129	ccbill/Ibill affiliates

08-30-2003, 12:35 PM	#6
Indeed Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 1,892	waiting for names

08-30-2003, 12:36 PM	#8
blindman Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 57	why not just sell traffic to revshare affiliates

08-30-2003, 12:38 PM	#10
4Pics Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 7,952	Alot of the programs count 2nd/3rd/join page uniques. So your #'s will not match really well. Promote ARS, your counts should be 1-2% of theirs, otherwise your click count isn't right.

08-30-2003, 12:38 PM	#11
m0rph3us Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Principality of Sealand Posts: 2,033	lots of sponsors don't count 1st page uniques

08-30-2003, 12:40 PM	#13
detoxed vip member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 17,798	Yeah, and because they count 90% they shave? What if some of your visitors have already visited them today and have a cookie from another affiliate?

08-30-2003, 12:41 PM	#17
AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE best designer on GFY Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IALIEN.COM - High Definition Video and Photographic Productions -ICQ 78943384 Posts: 30,307	Damn... I was expecting proof! __________________ NAKED HOSTING FTW!11 I'm On The INSANE PLAN $9.95/mo! \| The Alien Blog Adult News Worth Reading Updated Daily \| Content For Sale! 641 PICS 216 MINUTES OF VIDEO $350.00 \|ICQ: 78943384 \|

08-30-2003, 12:42 PM	#19
mikeeee Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 481

08-30-2003, 12:44 PM	#20
Jason Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 4,287	Not all sponsors shave Choker.. I'll put up any amount of money to prove that PornDollar does not. Is anyone willing to take that bet? We count the RAW/UNIQUES at the front door.. PD's backend is best of the biz.. __________________ I stay busy.

08-30-2003, 12:44 PM	#21
quiet we'll miss you our friend. RIP Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Fernie, BC Posts: 25,115	__________________ we'll miss you our friend. RIP

08-30-2003, 12:46 PM	#23
Kimmykim bitchslapping zebras!!!!! Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: In a shack by the beach Posts: 16,015	Sigh...

08-30-2003, 12:47 PM	#25
SpeakEasy Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: The Internet Posts: 2,681	Choker, anyone with a 1/2 a brain knows that sponsors shave, and it get's worse everyday...this is not new news. IF you have any proof at all, then post proof and names, otherwise this "Info" you posted is useless!! You even called your new Topic of this thread "Proof of Shaving" well...post some proof.

08-30-2003, 12:53 PM	#31
ztik Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Nomad Posts: 5,196	I don't shave! __________________ .

08-30-2003, 12:54 PM	#32
Thrawn$ Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Mtl Posts: 4,596	I know wich sponsor he is talking about __________________ Tracking 202 \| Start Tracking PPC Campaigns Like A Pro

08-30-2003, 12:59 PM	#36
D-Money Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Player Del Ray Posts: 9,716	I know Porndollar doesn't shave. Ran some test a while back, very nice system. Highly recommended. Choker, you should try his program and see how it fares with the others. __________________ Still Ballin'

08-30-2003, 01:00 PM	#38
blindman Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 57	last time i thought i was being shaved.i changed the traffic to goto a revshare .then watched the clicks and sales go throught the roof

08-30-2003, 01:10 PM	#41
ztik Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Nomad Posts: 5,196	I think you should expose them. Shaving = cheating/scamming in my eyes

08-30-2003, 01:11 PM	#44
Jason Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 4,287	I think it does matter.. Sponsors count in differant places.. PD counts at the front door.. Others count 2nd page and some even count on the join! I see what your saying.. I just don't think that sponsors will favor on a per webmaster basis.. But.. I speak for my own company. It's on auto pilot. __________________ I stay busy.

08-30-2003, 01:11 PM	#45
InsaneGreen Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: southern california Posts: 996	hey jason. im johnny, i met you at the ducks game that time. talked to you over at holios the other week. do you have an email or icq so we can talk?. i wanna ask you about your sites. __________________ SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60.

08-30-2003, 01:15 PM	#48
OneHungLo So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Location: Your mom's front hole Posts: 40,906	He's right. I discovered this about 4 yrs ago with ARS...i used to have different accounts with them for different tgp's etc..and i began to notice a trend when ever i first signed up for a new account i was averaging 1:100 then after about 2 weeks it would be 1:600 so i would get a new account and it would be back to 1:100. It was kinda funny to look back at all my accounts i had...the first one i signed up with was at 1:5000 the next 1:1200 the next 1:800 and all the way down the line to the newest one at 1:100 They all do it, they will all deny it, but they all do it. Anyone paying 40 dollars a signup is scamming someone , either it be the surfer or the webmaster... someone's getting fucked