The Real History Behind the Democratic Government Shutdown - GoFuckYourself.com

Hattrick · 10-02-2013, 06:50 AM

The following excerpt from the Washington Post discusses an American politician and Speaker of the United States House of Representatives - Rep. Tip O'Neill who was an outspoken liberal Democrat and influential member of the House of Representatives, serving for 34 years and representing two congressional districts in Massachusetts. He served as Speaker of the House from 1977 until his retirement in 1987.

"The government shut down seven times when O'Neill was speaker and Reagan was president. And they were real shutdowns, too, given that they occurred after Jimmy Carter's attorney general, Benjamin Civiletti, issued opinions in 1980 and 1981 saying that funding gaps had to lead to at least partial shutdowns of government functions. Five quasi-shutdowns happened before those opinions under O'Neill's watch, with Carter as president. And one more shutdown happened under Reagan and O'Neill's successor as speaker, Jim Wright.

If your metric for quality governance is "ability to avoid shutdowns," then Reagan is absolutely the worst president of the modern era. The government shut down eight times under his watch, more than any other president, representing nearly half of all shutdowns that have occurred under the modern budget process. And O'Neill is an even worse speaker, if that's our criterion. He presided over 12 funding gaps or shutdowns, or almost 71 percent of all shutdowns to date."

washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/09/26/sorry-chris-matthews-tip-oneill-and-ronald-reagan-were-terrible-at-averting-shutdowns/

Putting aside all the political rhetoric from both sides today, reality is the following facts;

1) the House originates all spending bills per the US Constitution.
2) the House is an equal and separate elected branch of government.
3) the framers of the US Constitution purposely gave the House the power of the purse string to originate all spending bills for funding of government branches, agencies and programs so as to be able to exert the people's will if need be.

Representatives are closest to the people and can best carry-out the wishes of the people on a year-to-year basis. Also at that time, the Senate was the "States" body of appointed representatives who did not represent the people, rather, the interests of the States.

The House, known as the People's House, was designed by the founders to do exactly what this and many other Congresses have done when the people became unhappy with their government's actions. Government shut downs have been used as leverage to change seemingly simple things like regulations regarding the trucking industry.

Historically when there is a disagreement between any of the three separate and equal branches of government, a conference is held to negotiate an agreement and the Act then goes on to become law.

Today we have a Congress seeking to alter an unpopular law in response to their constituent?s wishes. Yet it is the political party who has used government shutdowns the most in America?s history crying foul and refusing to enter into any Conference to negotiate a settlement that would keep the people?s government operating; something which our Democracy demands.

Whether you like ObamaCare or not, any American should be appalled that two branches of their government are attempting to usurp the powers of the third branch and in the process denying the People their constitutional protected voice.

Examination of Democratic Rep. Tip O?Neill?s history with government shutdowns goes to show that the extremist far-left in America is nothing but hypocritical by screaming hostage when their political opposition uses the same tactics they have used over-and-over to bring about negotiations. If Democrats wanted to really overt a government shutdown, they would have at least showed up for a Conference; as has happened countless times throughout America?s legislative history. Yet they won?t even talk. This is not how Democracy works in America.

sperbonzo · 10-02-2013, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hattrick

The following excerpt from the Washington Post discusses an American politician and Speaker of the United States House of Representatives - Rep. Tip O'Neill who was an outspoken liberal Democrat and influential member of the House of Representatives, serving for 34 years and representing two congressional districts in Massachusetts. He served as Speaker of the House from 1977 until his retirement in 1987.

"The government shut down seven times when O'Neill was speaker and Reagan was president. And they were real shutdowns, too, given that they occurred after Jimmy Carter's attorney general, Benjamin Civiletti, issued opinions in 1980 and 1981 saying that funding gaps had to lead to at least partial shutdowns of government functions. Five quasi-shutdowns happened before those opinions under O'Neill's watch, with Carter as president. And one more shutdown happened under Reagan and O'Neill's successor as speaker, Jim Wright.

If your metric for quality governance is "ability to avoid shutdowns," then Reagan is absolutely the worst president of the modern era. The government shut down eight times under his watch, more than any other president, representing nearly half of all shutdowns that have occurred under the modern budget process. And O'Neill is an even worse speaker, if that's our criterion. He presided over 12 funding gaps or shutdowns, or almost 71 percent of all shutdowns to date."

washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/09/26/sorry-chris-matthews-tip-oneill-and-ronald-reagan-were-terrible-at-averting-shutdowns/

Putting aside all the political rhetoric from both sides today, reality is the following facts;

1) the House originates all spending bills per the US Constitution.
2) the House is an equal and separate elected branch of government.
3) the framers of the US Constitution purposely gave the House the power of the purse string to originate all spending bills for funding of government branches, agencies and programs so as to be able to exert the people's will if need be.

Representatives are closest to the people and can best carry-out the wishes of the people on a year-to-year basis. Also at that time, the Senate was the "States" body of appointed representatives who did not represent the people, rather, the interests of the States.

The House, known as the People's House, was designed by the founders to do exactly what this and many other Congresses have done when the people became unhappy with their government's actions. Government shut downs have been used as leverage to change seemingly simple things like regulations regarding the trucking industry.

Historically when there is a disagreement between any of the three separate and equal branches of government, a conference is held to negotiate an agreement and the Act then goes on to become law.

Today we have a Congress seeking to alter an unpopular law in response to their constituent?s wishes. Yet it is the political party who has used government shutdowns the most in America?s history crying foul and refusing to enter into any Conference to negotiate a settlement that would keep the people?s government operating; something which our Democracy demands.

Whether you like ObamaCare or not, any American should be appalled that two branches of their government are attempting to usurp the powers of the third branch and in the process denying the People their constitutional protected voice.

Examination of Democratic Rep. Tip O?Neill?s history with government shutdowns goes to show that the extremist far-left in America is nothing but hypocritical by screaming hostage when their political opposition uses the same tactics they have used over-and-over to bring about negotiations. If Democrats wanted to really overt a government shutdown, they would have at least showed up for a Conference; as has happened countless times throughout America?s legislative history. Yet they won?t even talk. This is not how Democracy works in America.

Outstanding post, and factually correct.

.

tony286 · 10-02-2013, 10:29 AM

not all the facts

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/1...n_4020621.html
WASHINGTON -- House Republicans decided Monday that government shutdown or not, it was more important for them to keep trying to strike a blow against Obamacare. Having failed to convince Senate Democrats to go along, the Republicans resorted to seeking a "conference committee" to resolve the differences.

For Sen. Patty Murray (D-Wash.), chair of the Senate Budget Committee, the move is ironic. She has been trying for more than a half-year to go to a conference to work out dramatic differences between the Senate budget and the House version. Senate and House Republicans have objected, repeatedly.

But with the clock expiring at midnight Monday, and federal officials starting to shut down all non-essential government functions, the House resorted to seeking a conference committee to pass a spending bill, or "continuing resolution" that runs only through mid-November or mid-December.

Senate Democrats called that negotiating at gunpoint.

"We know going to a conference means that we have to compromise -- that's what a conference is," Murray said just before midnight. "But we're not going to do it with a gun to our head that says we're shutting government down and we're going to conference over a short little six-week C.R. We have to deal with the longer-term budget. We have asked many times to go to conference on that."

Indeed, Murray and her colleagues asked 18 times. They have been blocked by Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) and a group of tea party Republicans led by Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas).

There's another irony in the new House conference bid. For three years before 2013, it was Democrats who did not even pass a budget, although for the last two years they argued that the Budget Control Act served the same function. During that time, McConnell and most other Republicans hammered Democrats for failing to pass a budget.

Watch McConnell switch from pushing for a budget to objecting above.

sperbonzo · 10-02-2013, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony286

not all the facts

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/1...n_4020621.html
WASHINGTON -- House Republicans decided Monday that government shutdown or not, it was more important for them to keep trying to strike a blow against Obamacare. Having failed to convince Senate Democrats to go along, the Republicans resorted to seeking a "conference committee" to resolve the differences.

For Sen. Patty Murray (D-Wash.), chair of the Senate Budget Committee, the move is ironic. She has been trying for more than a half-year to go to a conference to work out dramatic differences between the Senate budget and the House version. Senate and House Republicans have objected, repeatedly.

But with the clock expiring at midnight Monday, and federal officials starting to shut down all non-essential government functions, the House resorted to seeking a conference committee to pass a spending bill, or "continuing resolution" that runs only through mid-November or mid-December.

Senate Democrats called that negotiating at gunpoint.

"We know going to a conference means that we have to compromise -- that's what a conference is," Murray said just before midnight. "But we're not going to do it with a gun to our head that says we're shutting government down and we're going to conference over a short little six-week C.R. We have to deal with the longer-term budget. We have asked many times to go to conference on that."

Indeed, Murray and her colleagues asked 18 times. They have been blocked by Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) and a group of tea party Republicans led by Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas).

There's another irony in the new House conference bid. For three years before 2013, it was Democrats who did not even pass a budget, although for the last two years they argued that the Budget Control Act served the same function. During that time, McConnell and most other Republicans hammered Democrats for failing to pass a budget.

Watch McConnell switch from pushing for a budget to objecting above.

IF you read the OP post again you will see that "negotiating at gunpoint" is EXACTLY what has happened the last 16 times this situation has come about....

.

Tom_PM · 10-02-2013, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Today we have a Congress seeking to alter an unpopular law in response to their constituent’s wishes.

Idiocy. From what, a poll taken by a GOP think tank, worded to make it come out as unfavorable as possible? People don't even know what money the new law will save or cost them! THAT has been the primary question and the reaction is to defund it "just in case" it might cost more. Estimates in many states are dramatic savings. Millions of children are now covered. Millions with preexisting conditions are now covered... regardless of the cost.

Sorry, flawed premise will getcha every time. SOME people are afraid of what they don't yet know, and THAT's why the Republicans and nobody but the Republicans are rejoicing that they've scored yet another fucked up non-victory for their corporate sugar daddy's. Lets keep it real.

Captain Kawaii · 10-02-2013, 12:19 PM

Heard an interesting discussion yesterday on democracynow...

Said most if not all the major players in health insurance are not rushing in to compete with all the new exchanges. Their system is based on insuring healthy people and not sick ones.

Sounds about right from a lobbyists pov. No wonder GOP is pushing so hard to crush this thing.

10-02-2013, 06:50 AM	#1
Hattrick Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 22	The Real History Behind the Democratic Government Shutdown The following excerpt from the Washington Post discusses an American politician and Speaker of the United States House of Representatives - Rep. Tip O'Neill who was an outspoken liberal Democrat and influential member of the House of Representatives, serving for 34 years and representing two congressional districts in Massachusetts. He served as Speaker of the House from 1977 until his retirement in 1987. "The government shut down seven times when O'Neill was speaker and Reagan was president. And they were real shutdowns, too, given that they occurred after Jimmy Carter's attorney general, Benjamin Civiletti, issued opinions in 1980 and 1981 saying that funding gaps had to lead to at least partial shutdowns of government functions. Five quasi-shutdowns happened before those opinions under O'Neill's watch, with Carter as president. And one more shutdown happened under Reagan and O'Neill's successor as speaker, Jim Wright. If your metric for quality governance is "ability to avoid shutdowns," then Reagan is absolutely the worst president of the modern era. The government shut down eight times under his watch, more than any other president, representing nearly half of all shutdowns that have occurred under the modern budget process. And O'Neill is an even worse speaker, if that's our criterion. He presided over 12 funding gaps or shutdowns, or almost 71 percent of all shutdowns to date." washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/09/26/sorry-chris-matthews-tip-oneill-and-ronald-reagan-were-terrible-at-averting-shutdowns/ Putting aside all the political rhetoric from both sides today, reality is the following facts; 1) the House originates all spending bills per the US Constitution. 2) the House is an equal and separate elected branch of government. 3) the framers of the US Constitution purposely gave the House the power of the purse string to originate all spending bills for funding of government branches, agencies and programs so as to be able to exert the people's will if need be. Representatives are closest to the people and can best carry-out the wishes of the people on a year-to-year basis. Also at that time, the Senate was the "States" body of appointed representatives who did not represent the people, rather, the interests of the States. The House, known as the People's House, was designed by the founders to do exactly what this and many other Congresses have done when the people became unhappy with their government's actions. Government shut downs have been used as leverage to change seemingly simple things like regulations regarding the trucking industry. Historically when there is a disagreement between any of the three separate and equal branches of government, a conference is held to negotiate an agreement and the Act then goes on to become law. Today we have a Congress seeking to alter an unpopular law in response to their constituent?s wishes. Yet it is the political party who has used government shutdowns the most in America?s history crying foul and refusing to enter into any Conference to negotiate a settlement that would keep the people?s government operating; something which our Democracy demands. Whether you like ObamaCare or not, any American should be appalled that two branches of their government are attempting to usurp the powers of the third branch and in the process denying the People their constitutional protected voice. Examination of Democratic Rep. Tip O?Neill?s history with government shutdowns goes to show that the extremist far-left in America is nothing but hypocritical by screaming hostage when their political opposition uses the same tactics they have used over-and-over to bring about negotiations. If Democrats wanted to really overt a government shutdown, they would have at least showed up for a Conference; as has happened countless times throughout America?s legislative history. Yet they won?t even talk. This is not how Democracy works in America.

10-02-2013, 10:29 AM	#3
tony286 lurker Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: atlanta Posts: 57,021	not all the facts http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/1...n_4020621.html WASHINGTON -- House Republicans decided Monday that government shutdown or not, it was more important for them to keep trying to strike a blow against Obamacare. Having failed to convince Senate Democrats to go along, the Republicans resorted to seeking a "conference committee" to resolve the differences. For Sen. Patty Murray (D-Wash.), chair of the Senate Budget Committee, the move is ironic. She has been trying for more than a half-year to go to a conference to work out dramatic differences between the Senate budget and the House version. Senate and House Republicans have objected, repeatedly. But with the clock expiring at midnight Monday, and federal officials starting to shut down all non-essential government functions, the House resorted to seeking a conference committee to pass a spending bill, or "continuing resolution" that runs only through mid-November or mid-December. Senate Democrats called that negotiating at gunpoint. "We know going to a conference means that we have to compromise -- that's what a conference is," Murray said just before midnight. "But we're not going to do it with a gun to our head that says we're shutting government down and we're going to conference over a short little six-week C.R. We have to deal with the longer-term budget. We have asked many times to go to conference on that." Indeed, Murray and her colleagues asked 18 times. They have been blocked by Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) and a group of tea party Republicans led by Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas). There's another irony in the new House conference bid. For three years before 2013, it was Democrats who did not even pass a budget, although for the last two years they argued that the Budget Control Act served the same function. During that time, McConnell and most other Republicans hammered Democrats for failing to pass a budget. Watch McConnell switch from pushing for a budget to objecting above.

10-02-2013, 12:19 PM	#6
Captain Kawaii So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 6,748	Heard an interesting discussion yesterday on democracynow... Said most if not all the major players in health insurance are not rushing in to compete with all the new exchanges. Their system is based on insuring healthy people and not sick ones. Sounds about right from a lobbyists pov. No wonder GOP is pushing so hard to crush this thing.