How To Maybe Defeat A Condom Requirement - GoFuckYourself.com

mikesouth · 10-30-2012, 12:58 PM

from http://www.mikesouth.com

OK Measure B is almost certainly going to pass, at that point I expect it will come down to it being challenged in court. I don?t expect anything to really change on November 7th, or even on December 7th. now it is time for us to start doing what we should have been doing all along.

First and foremost we as an industry have to be 100% condom neutral, the days of a performer not getting as jobor being blacklisted because they want to protect themselves from an STD HAVE to be gone. All companies should have condoms on every set and it should be an option, ideally to protect yourselves when performers choose not to use a condom they should sign a waiver.

Second like it or not performers are employees, get workers compensation insurance, this way we are doing what every legit business in this country has to do and we can point out that when someone does get injured or infected on a set they are not becoming a burden on the healthcare system because they dont have health insurance.

Third, all of you performers harping about your rights?.you do NOT have a right to infect someone else because you have been careless, you need to start considering the impact of your decisions, both inside and outside the industry. Let mne tell you straight up, it impacts you, it is because of that irresponsible behavior by some of the loudest of you that you are facing this condom law. It is because of that irresponsible behavior that you will have to use condoms if you cant start acting responsibly. The fact that STD rates in the industry are at best about ten times higher than the normal population is appalling This HAS GOT to be brought down and performers are the front line.

If a performer forges a test he or she is out, period, end of story, that includes Mister Marcus, let him go work a fryer someplace we don?t want the likes of him and Marc Wallace

Fourth as an industry we have to address the rate of STD?s in this industry, that is the axe that is poised to fall across the neck of this industry. For far too long we had it easy, we thought we were untouchable only a few people saw the Sword of Damocles hanging over the industry. Testing has got to be overhauled preferably by health care professionals who are neutral and unattached to any company in the industry. We have to have better and more comprehensive testing.

If we can do these things we might have a chance of a condom optional workplace, if we can?t do these things condoms are going to be in our future. Take that to the bank.

CyberHustler · 10-30-2012, 01:01 PM

Wrap it up

xanadu · 10-31-2012, 01:02 PM

Mike, thanks for the very interesting insight. With most I think we all agree and we really need to address as an industry sooner rather than later.

Most important, you are right, if we dont take measures, others will take for us. Its really surreal that one of the biggest worldwide industries, most of the times is not participating in any kind of decisions that affect us. I dont think this happens with any other industry and without question is our fault to a degree.

i disagree though that the law will certainly pass. There is still time to fight and make a difference.

Sure we could have done much more till now. Sure its not the final battle nor the end of the war. Sure due to politics, egos, bad experience, lose of faith or interest, whatever... the industry hesitated to support as much as we can.

Still though, united we can do a lot even now, especially the webmasters/companies that work on the online world and win this battle.

We will have time to fight, criticize, debate and propose solutions to solve the issues you mention. But not now man. In many elections the last week is critical and play a huge role in the result.

We can do it ;)

mikesouth · 10-31-2012, 01:54 PM

Xanadu, You may be right, I base my predictions that it will pass on the current polling data of likely voters( 58% yes, 35% no, 7% undecided)

But even if it fails our troubles are far from over....for ten years this has been coming and now it appears inevitable....Take a look at the Dept of health page....read the motions, policy statements, resolutions and related journal articles ....

http://publichealth.lacounty.gov/std/afi.htm

Thats what we have to overcome in the long haul and it seriously doesnt look good, after reading that my thoughts were why did it take them so long.

mikesouth · 10-31-2012, 01:57 PM

I expect condoms will just be the begining....It wont come down to goggles and rubber gloves and lab coats...thats fear mongering...what it will come down to is

Licensing adult performers

Raising the legal age to perform from 18 to 21

Drug testing as part of the licensing requirement

xanadu · 10-31-2012, 02:09 PM

Mike, you are obviously right that the troubles are far from over. Nobody says the opposite.

Obviously we need to regulate the industry better and create a safer environment for all the participants. But not let others do it for us, without even our feedback....especially a group like AHF....

Thanks for sharing the link. Still I am sure that almost every other industry has a similar page in the Dept of health care, all jobs have their risks, ours as well.

I dont say we ignore it, I agree with u in a lot about this subject. Just that a week before the referendum, our focus should be a bit more there and not criticizing FSC or the industry itself for the lack of taking care the issues.

After the vote is cast we can talk about all this with more clear mind and better perspective.

baddog · 10-31-2012, 03:10 PM

Why do you think it is going to pass?

BlackAndBlue · 10-31-2012, 03:27 PM

Who did this poll of which you speak Mike? Who did they poll? Who paid for it? How many people were polled? All of those points, and more, are relevant before considering the information valid.

I'm sure AHF reports the majority of voters support their position with a yes vote. FSC claims 100% of voters don't want the measure. But unless I know who paid for the poll, I am not going to put much credence in it.

kane · 10-31-2012, 03:35 PM

So if it does pass and it survives the court challenges do you think a lot of production companies will just leave California and move to a different state or will they just comply?

baddog · 10-31-2012, 03:58 PM

Measure B Would Affect Only 280 Adult Performers in Los Angeles County in Colossal Waste of Taxpayer Dollars, According to the No on Government Waste Committee

Robbie · 10-31-2012, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

Measure B Would Affect Only 280 Adult Performers in Los Angeles County in Colossal Waste of Taxpayer Dollars, According to the No on Government Waste Committee

It won't affect any of them. People will simply stop shooting in L.A.

mikesouth · 10-31-2012, 04:22 PM

One poll was done by research now but that was months ago the more recent poll was in one of the LA Papers

For the record moving shooting out of LA isnt going to solve the problem, if your company has an office in LA it doesnt matter where you shoot, buy your content it will have to comply

But bear in mind...like I said Tues isnt going to make much diff one way or the other really itll be won or lost in the challenge and thats where we better have our shit together

If you havent read the DOPH links I posted you really need to do so, thats what we are going to be fighting and it is NOT pretty.

mikesouth · 10-31-2012, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kane

So if it does pass and it survives the court challenges do you think a lot of production companies will just leave California and move to a different state or will they just comply?

They will comply

a few may leave but they will be the gonzo companies the bigger the company the less likely it will leave

pornlaw · 10-31-2012, 04:32 PM

Mike - can you please stop touting those numbers from LA County Health...

They arent accurate and cant be used to prove anything. A performer can contract an STI anywhere, not all of it is on set and not all of it is from the Los Angeles talent pool.

Those numbers are skewed. Look at the title of the report...

"High Chlamydia and Gonorrhea Incidence, Reinfection and HIV Infection Among Workers in the Adult Film Industry: Time to Regulate and Protect Workers"

Doesnt that tell you that its not a scientific study ???

http://adultbizlaw.com/the-problem-w...orn-sti-rates/

Robbie · 10-31-2012, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikesouth

the bigger the company the less likely it will leave

And the more likely it will be to fail.

pornlaw · 10-31-2012, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikesouth

For the record moving shooting out of LA isnt going to solve the problem, if your company has an office in LA it doesnt matter where you shoot, buy your content it will have to comply

Where are you getting these legal opinions from ? If a company doesnt shoot content why would they need a permit for shooting content ?

Will they need a hot dog vendor permit even though they dont have a hot dog stand ?

And if you move your HQs out of LA you probably wont need to comply with the health permit aspect of the law... shooting in LA will still require an filming permit though.

mikesouth · 10-31-2012, 05:13 PM

Its open to legal debate because nobody has done it yet but the way I (and others) see it that health permit will be tied to your compliance. If you dont have an office shooting in LA you wont have to hire Michael to fight it for you obviously, if you do have an office in LA...well you takes your chances.

And no I will not stop repeating those numbers, I have seen NOTHING to indicate that so many independent studies (including a new one released today) got it wrong

Ignoring this stuff will just lead to defeat. If you want to win you damn well better understand your oppositions strategies, ignoring it or arbitrarily dismissing it as incorrect is a loser

pornlaw · 10-31-2012, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikesouth

Its open to legal debate because nobody has done it yet but the way I (and others) see it that health permit will be tied to your compliance. If you dont have an office shooting in LA you wont have to hire Michael to fight it for you obviously, if you do have an office in LA...well you takes your chances.

And no I will not stop repeating those numbers, I have seen NOTHING to indicate that so many independent studies (including a new one released today) got it wrong

Ignoring this stuff will just lead to defeat. If you want to win you damn well better understand your oppositions strategies, ignoring it or arbitrarily dismissing it as incorrect is a loser

Im confused on your position... You believe that if you have an office in LA County you still have to comply - whether you shoot or not ?

Federal case law usually limits a company's HQs to its "nerve center" - meaning where do the decision makers sit. And for purposes of Ballot Measure B - if you're nerve center is outside LA County - they cant force a company to abide by a law when there is no jurisdictional basis to do so.

This is why Fabian said that his Burbank HQs do not produce hardcore. I am sure he received some legal advice to put Digital Playground under Manwin Canada's control. Playboy (softcore) remains under Manwin USA's (Burbank) control. Hence I am sure his lawyers told him no Department of Health permit would be necessary for Digital Playground... of course the film permit would still be necessary.

The way Ballot Measure B reads it separates compliance into two parts - health permit (the big bucks) and film permits (much less expensive). Filming without a health permit is much worse - it gets you shut down, fines and possible jail. Filming without a film permit just gets you fines and possible jail. Which is rather easy to get a DA to dismiss once you get the permit - thats exactly what I did for PornDan in his case.

And its much much easier to send a Depart of Health inspector to a company's HQs to inspect for the health permit (unless of course you are in Canada much like 2257 inspections) then it is to catch someone in the act of filming without a permit...

As for the studies, I can fund a study that Acute Care Nurses in a hospital setting have a much higher rate of contracting the flu and common cold then any other group...And I would probably get the results I want. What I cant prove is that they caught the flu/common cold at work. Thats what counts, not that pornstars have more STI then the regular population or nurses get the flu 5x as much as you or I.

But if I repeat the study's numbers enough times I bet I can convince enough people to vote for a ballot measure which would require all nurses to wear surgical masks at all times while working... Makes sense - sure. Is it smart - sure but is it necessary - probably not. And neither is a mandatory condom measure.

mikesouth · 10-31-2012, 06:16 PM

I have no doubt that Fabian had legal advice I also have no doubt that if he thinks he can film DP Content in LA County without a permit because DP is owned by Manwin Canada he will be paying that lawyer big bucks to try and defend him

Good for the Lawyer not so good for Fabian....

Robbie · 10-31-2012, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikesouth

I have no doubt that Fabian had legal advice I also have no doubt that if he thinks he can film DP Content in LA County without a permit because DP is owned by Manwin Canada he will be paying that lawyer big bucks to try and defend him

Good for the Lawyer not so good for Fabian....

The obvious answer is to NOT film in L.A.

And if you have your business there...move it out of L.A.
Pretty simple.

mikesouth · 10-31-2012, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robbie

the obvious answer is to not film in l.a.

And if you have your business there...move it out of l.a.
Pretty simple.

sssshhhh lol

10-30-2012, 12:58 PM	#1
mikesouth Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: My High Horse Posts: 6,334	How To Maybe Defeat A Condom Requirement from http://www.mikesouth.com OK Measure B is almost certainly going to pass, at that point I expect it will come down to it being challenged in court. I don?t expect anything to really change on November 7th, or even on December 7th. now it is time for us to start doing what we should have been doing all along. First and foremost we as an industry have to be 100% condom neutral, the days of a performer not getting as jobor being blacklisted because they want to protect themselves from an STD HAVE to be gone. All companies should have condoms on every set and it should be an option, ideally to protect yourselves when performers choose not to use a condom they should sign a waiver. Second like it or not performers are employees, get workers compensation insurance, this way we are doing what every legit business in this country has to do and we can point out that when someone does get injured or infected on a set they are not becoming a burden on the healthcare system because they dont have health insurance. Third, all of you performers harping about your rights?.you do NOT have a right to infect someone else because you have been careless, you need to start considering the impact of your decisions, both inside and outside the industry. Let mne tell you straight up, it impacts you, it is because of that irresponsible behavior by some of the loudest of you that you are facing this condom law. It is because of that irresponsible behavior that you will have to use condoms if you cant start acting responsibly. The fact that STD rates in the industry are at best about ten times higher than the normal population is appalling This HAS GOT to be brought down and performers are the front line. If a performer forges a test he or she is out, period, end of story, that includes Mister Marcus, let him go work a fryer someplace we don?t want the likes of him and Marc Wallace Fourth as an industry we have to address the rate of STD?s in this industry, that is the axe that is poised to fall across the neck of this industry. For far too long we had it easy, we thought we were untouchable only a few people saw the Sword of Damocles hanging over the industry. Testing has got to be overhauled preferably by health care professionals who are neutral and unattached to any company in the industry. We have to have better and more comprehensive testing. If we can do these things we might have a chance of a condom optional workplace, if we can?t do these things condoms are going to be in our future. Take that to the bank. __________________ Mike South It's No wonder I took up drugs and alcohol, it's the only way I could dumb myself down enough to cope with the morons in this biz.

10-31-2012, 01:02 PM	#3
xanadu bot Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Barcelona Posts: 997	Mike, thanks for the very interesting insight. With most I think we all agree and we really need to address as an industry sooner rather than later. Most important, you are right, if we dont take measures, others will take for us. Its really surreal that one of the biggest worldwide industries, most of the times is not participating in any kind of decisions that affect us. I dont think this happens with any other industry and without question is our fault to a degree. i disagree though that the law will certainly pass. There is still time to fight and make a difference. Sure we could have done much more till now. Sure its not the final battle nor the end of the war. Sure due to politics, egos, bad experience, lose of faith or interest, whatever... the industry hesitated to support as much as we can. Still though, united we can do a lot even now, especially the webmasters/companies that work on the online world and win this battle. We will have time to fight, criticize, debate and propose solutions to solve the issues you mention. But not now man. In many elections the last week is critical and play a huge role in the result. We can do it ;) __________________ GFY Admin [email protected] https://linktr.ee/xxx

10-31-2012, 01:54 PM	#4
mikesouth Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: My High Horse Posts: 6,334	Xanadu, You may be right, I base my predictions that it will pass on the current polling data of likely voters( 58% yes, 35% no, 7% undecided) But even if it fails our troubles are far from over....for ten years this has been coming and now it appears inevitable....Take a look at the Dept of health page....read the motions, policy statements, resolutions and related journal articles .... http://publichealth.lacounty.gov/std/afi.htm Thats what we have to overcome in the long haul and it seriously doesnt look good, after reading that my thoughts were why did it take them so long. __________________ Mike South It's No wonder I took up drugs and alcohol, it's the only way I could dumb myself down enough to cope with the morons in this biz.

10-31-2012, 01:57 PM	#5
mikesouth Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: My High Horse Posts: 6,334	I expect condoms will just be the begining....It wont come down to goggles and rubber gloves and lab coats...thats fear mongering...what it will come down to is Licensing adult performers Raising the legal age to perform from 18 to 21 Drug testing as part of the licensing requirement __________________ Mike South It's No wonder I took up drugs and alcohol, it's the only way I could dumb myself down enough to cope with the morons in this biz.

10-31-2012, 02:09 PM	#6
xanadu bot Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Barcelona Posts: 997	Mike, you are obviously right that the troubles are far from over. Nobody says the opposite. Obviously we need to regulate the industry better and create a safer environment for all the participants. But not let others do it for us, without even our feedback....especially a group like AHF.... Thanks for sharing the link. Still I am sure that almost every other industry has a similar page in the Dept of health care, all jobs have their risks, ours as well. I dont say we ignore it, I agree with u in a lot about this subject. Just that a week before the referendum, our focus should be a bit more there and not criticizing FSC or the industry itself for the lack of taking care the issues. After the vote is cast we can talk about all this with more clear mind and better perspective. __________________ GFY Admin [email protected] https://linktr.ee/xxx Last edited by xanadu; 10-31-2012 at 02:17 PM..

10-30-2012, 01:01 PM	#2
CyberHustler Unregistered Abuser Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 25,395	Wrap it up

10-31-2012, 03:10 PM	#7
baddog So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: the beach, SoCal Posts: 107,089	Why do you think it is going to pass?

10-31-2012, 03:27 PM	#8
BlackAndBlue Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Porn Valley, CA Posts: 193	Who did this poll of which you speak Mike? Who did they poll? Who paid for it? How many people were polled? All of those points, and more, are relevant before considering the information valid. I'm sure AHF reports the majority of voters support their position with a yes vote. FSC claims 100% of voters don't want the measure. But unless I know who paid for the poll, I am not going to put much credence in it.

10-31-2012, 03:35 PM	#9
kane Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: portland, OR Posts: 20,684	So if it does pass and it survives the court challenges do you think a lot of production companies will just leave California and move to a different state or will they just comply?

10-31-2012, 03:58 PM	#10
baddog So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: the beach, SoCal Posts: 107,089	Measure B Would Affect Only 280 Adult Performers in Los Angeles County in Colossal Waste of Taxpayer Dollars, According to the No on Government Waste Committee

10-31-2012, 04:22 PM	#12
mikesouth Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: My High Horse Posts: 6,334	One poll was done by research now but that was months ago the more recent poll was in one of the LA Papers For the record moving shooting out of LA isnt going to solve the problem, if your company has an office in LA it doesnt matter where you shoot, buy your content it will have to comply But bear in mind...like I said Tues isnt going to make much diff one way or the other really itll be won or lost in the challenge and thats where we better have our shit together If you havent read the DOPH links I posted you really need to do so, thats what we are going to be fighting and it is NOT pretty. __________________ Mike South It's No wonder I took up drugs and alcohol, it's the only way I could dumb myself down enough to cope with the morons in this biz.

10-31-2012, 04:32 PM	#14
pornlaw Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 1,857	Mike - can you please stop touting those numbers from LA County Health... They arent accurate and cant be used to prove anything. A performer can contract an STI anywhere, not all of it is on set and not all of it is from the Los Angeles talent pool. Those numbers are skewed. Look at the title of the report... "High Chlamydia and Gonorrhea Incidence, Reinfection and HIV Infection Among Workers in the Adult Film Industry: Time to Regulate and Protect Workers" Doesnt that tell you that its not a scientific study ??? http://adultbizlaw.com/the-problem-w...orn-sti-rates/ __________________ Michael www.AdultBizLaw.com

10-31-2012, 05:13 PM	#17
mikesouth Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: My High Horse Posts: 6,334	Its open to legal debate because nobody has done it yet but the way I (and others) see it that health permit will be tied to your compliance. If you dont have an office shooting in LA you wont have to hire Michael to fight it for you obviously, if you do have an office in LA...well you takes your chances. And no I will not stop repeating those numbers, I have seen NOTHING to indicate that so many independent studies (including a new one released today) got it wrong Ignoring this stuff will just lead to defeat. If you want to win you damn well better understand your oppositions strategies, ignoring it or arbitrarily dismissing it as incorrect is a loser __________________ Mike South It's No wonder I took up drugs and alcohol, it's the only way I could dumb myself down enough to cope with the morons in this biz.

10-31-2012, 06:16 PM	#19
mikesouth Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: My High Horse Posts: 6,334	I have no doubt that Fabian had legal advice I also have no doubt that if he thinks he can film DP Content in LA County without a permit because DP is owned by Manwin Canada he will be paying that lawyer big bucks to try and defend him Good for the Lawyer not so good for Fabian.... __________________ Mike South It's No wonder I took up drugs and alcohol, it's the only way I could dumb myself down enough to cope with the morons in this biz.