Affiliates what do you think about FNCash (FleshLight) new decission about their trademark?

[will76]

After making claims in the past that it is ok to use the name "fleshlight" in your url when promoting their affiliate program, they recently have been contacting affiliates and threatening to not pay them unless they transfered ownership of that domain to FleshLight.

One such case played out in this thread: https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=1042415 which is now locked.

In the past FNCash has said:

There was also some confusion about the use of fleshlight being in your domain name. To clarify, we are NOT stopping the use of fleshlight domain names, and any affiliate who has a site with the fleshlight name in it does NOT need to shut it down.

https://gfy.com/showpost.php?p=12860205&postcount=93

So as recent as a couple years ago they were publicly stating it was ok to go register a domain name with fleshlight in it, spend your time and money promoting and seo that domain and when you get to the point where you making good money from it they change their minds. They tell you, I am holding your money and not going to pay you unless you transfer ownership of the domain to us.

What do you think, bullshit or ok to pull this?


IMO, since they gave the ok to do this and then allegedly decided they needed to protect their trademark, a good compromise would have been to have the domain ownership transfered to FNCash, however allow the affiliate to leave the site as is with his referral links on it so he could still get credit for the sales and not lose all of his hard work and time.


Affiliates discuss....

[DVTimes]

it sucks

[StinkyPink]

FNbullshit!

[BAKO]

Total BS

[porno jew]

thread closed.

[CaptainHowdy]

They're to hell for it ...

[mineistaken]

If what you say is truth than its big pile of BS!

[DarkJedi]

jews suck

[stocktrader23]

I posted in the thread that got closed but they strong armed that domain away by holding his money hostage. They had no legal grounds to take it, he could have sued and won easily. I'm assuming he's not from the USA or didn't want to fight but it's these small battles that webmasters should have been waging all along. Now with the industry crumbling nobody is really going to give a fuck what you do to them.

[u-Bob]

BS.

What's next? FNCash holding your payment hostage because you linked to them from http://fleshlight.yourdomain.com or http://ads.yourdomain.com/admanager....gin=fleshlight or http://sextoys.yourdomain.com/men/fleshlight.htm?

[LeRoy]

Would never promote them!

[will76]

22 people voted that it is Bullshit, 0 that it is ok. Don't think I have ever seen such clear results on a poll here before.

Fuck You FleshLight. Give the guy back his domain and keep paying him on those sales!!

[selena]

I don't know how anyone can be an actual affiliate and think it is anything other than BS.

[epitome]

26 votes of then fucking the affiliate.
0 votes for them being right.

Maybe they will wake up soon. Probably not.

[epitome]

I am just blind or was the thread deleted?

Need to know for my sig. I have screen shots of the first 3 1/2 pages so I will just put them up and link to that if needed.

[u-Bob]

Originally Posted by epitome

I am just blind or was the thread deleted?

Locked: https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=1042415

[18teens]

Total fucking bullshit and getting threads closed just makes them look that much worse.

[will76]

32 - 0 .....

[ruff]

Whoever made that decision at Fl*shlight was a corporate idiot. The game is changing in porn. Companies make no bones about fucking you over and doing it in public doesn't mean a thing to them. Fl*shlight is just sitting around waiting for this to blow over because they know how short everyone's memory is.

At the first whiff of a fucking, I pull links, close the affiliate account and worry about it later. Life is too short to take a fucking even if they give you a kiss. Enough affiliate cancelations and it will begin to hurt.

I wrote the TengaFlip company yesterday and got a reply that they are currently in the process of creating an affiliate program so there are always alternatives.

[u-Bob]

Looks like one of their reps voted

[selena]

Originally Posted by ruff

I wrote the TengaFlip company yesterday and got a reply that they are currently in the process of creating an affiliate program so there are always alternatives.

I had never heard of them before the now-locked thread, but I looked it up, and it has great reviews on Amazon.

[stocktrader23]

I was disappointed to see Sarah in the other thread taking up for the absurd shit but I guess when you need a job you can compromise principles.

[Kelli58]

Other affiliate programs have similar policies including Vivid, and Playboy. Buy a Playboy owned trademark domain name and watch how fast they sue your ass.

Vivid sent out letters like two years ago stating the same thing - our trademark, don't use it.

In the what it comes down to is, these companies HAVE to take every effort to protect their trademark or they have a worthless mark. Whoever doesn't understand that then clearly needs a few lessons in business.

[KickAssJesse]

that sucks... however, decisions and terms change all the time so it's best not to use any that is trademarked or you're left with something like this

[HighlyIntoxicated]

Based off of their responses in the original thread I've already moved on to another sex toy company. It was a clear money grab, and I will not support a company that is out to fuck their affiliates.

[stocktrader23]

Originally Posted by Kelli58

Other affiliate programs have similar policies including Vivid, and Playboy. Buy a Playboy owned trademark domain name and watch how fast they sue your ass.

Vivid sent out letters like two years ago stating the same thing - our trademark, don't use it.

In the what it comes down to is, these companies HAVE to take every effort to protect their trademark or they have a worthless mark. Whoever doesn't understand that then clearly needs a few lessons in business.

They might, and you can say whatever you want but you are fucking wrong. The same law that allows you to talk shit about a company (playboysucksdick.com) allows you to talk good about or at least speak your opinion about that company (playboymagazinereviews.com). This is not the same as playboyfucking.com or similar.

[HighlyIntoxicated]

Originally Posted by Kelli58

Other affiliate programs have similar policies including Vivid, and Playboy. Buy a Playboy owned trademark domain name and watch how fast they sue your ass.

Vivid sent out letters like two years ago stating the same thing - our trademark, don't use it.

In the what it comes down to is, these companies HAVE to take every effort to protect their trademark or they have a worthless mark. Whoever doesn't understand that then clearly needs a few lessons in business.

Did you not read where the people at FNCash allowed the trademark to be used for years, then after it gained high serps, they forced him to hand it over?

[will76]

Originally Posted by Kelli58

Other affiliate programs have similar policies including Vivid, and Playboy. Buy a Playboy owned trademark domain name and watch how fast they sue your ass.

Vivid sent out letters like two years ago stating the same thing - our trademark, don't use it.

In the what it comes down to is, these companies HAVE to take every effort to protect their trademark or they have a worthless mark. Whoever doesn't understand that then clearly needs a few lessons in business.

you totally miss the point / problem here. If FleshLight would have been "protecting" their trademark from day one and this was their policy then that would be a whole nother situation.

In this case they flat out told their affiliates they could use "fleshlight" in their domains to promote them, now they change their mind hold your money and demand that you transfer the ownership of those domains over to them. Thus causing you to lose a lot of money in affiliate sales, which you worked hard to build up, which they said was OK TO DO.

huge difference to a company who never said it was ok and had always been policing their trade mark, not allowing even affiliates to use it.

[TubeSubmitters]

Is will really an affiliate for anything other than clickcash? Why get in everyones biz...

[will76]

Originally Posted by KickAssJesse

that sucks... however, decisions and terms change all the time so it's best not to use any that is trademarked or you're left with something like this

TOS change all the time, most cases it is nothing we have control over anyways. For example, changing how long the cookie expires, or not paying for "life time" any more, not paying for sales that went through a second or third processor, etc. etc. etc.

If the company wants to fuck you they will easily find a way. In this case it was "trade mark", next it will be something else. Either you promote a stand up company that doesn't pull any of this shit or you promote one that is going to get you one way or the other sooner or later.

Originally Posted by bengtarne

Is will really an affiliate for anything other than clickcash? Why get in everyones biz...

short answer, just to piss you off.



( P.S. i don't even make money with clickcash. I just troll GFY for a living.)

[signupdamnit]

Originally Posted by bengtarne

Is will really an affiliate for anything other than clickcash? Why get in everyones biz...

Let's turn it around shall we. What are YOU doing replying? Why get in everyone's biz?

[looky_lou]

My sig says it all.

[NetHorse]

Total bullshit, and it's pretty sad they haven't made a public apology for how they've conducted themselves.

Here is the bottom line.

• Affiliate was given permission to create site using trademarked term.
  
• Affiliate used the site to specifically promote their program.
  
• Affiliate spent years to effectively promote their program using said site.
  
• Affiliate generated over $100k in sales over the years.
  
• Program owner got greedy threatened affiliate, held payment and then demanded affiliate to turnover domain to them immediately.
  

Frankly, they should be fucking embarrassed. I can't think of a worse way to treat your hard working, honest affiliates.

[epitome]

Originally Posted by u-Bob

Locked: https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=1042415

Thanks! I am mobile right now and only did a scan for three pages and couldn't see it.

As long as the thread still exists, I am happy. I don't think threads like that should be locked but I don't own GFY.

I guess they asked for it to be locked as besides their reps it looked like only one or two people felt they were in the right.

Since they haven't reconsidered and the issue made it all the way to the owner we now know how they feel about affiliates that sent tons of sales ... imagine how they feel about the ones that only send a few.

[KickAssJesse]

Originally Posted by will76

TOS change all the time, most cases it is nothing we have control over anyways. For example, changing how long the cookie expires, or not paying for "life time" any more, not paying for sales that went through a second or third processor, etc. etc. etc.

If the company wants to fuck you they will easily find a way. In this case it was "trade mark", next it will be something else. Either you promote a stand up company that doesn't pull any of this shit or you promote one that is going to get you one way or the other sooner or later.

I couldn't agree with you more.
It's up to the affiliate to take action and/or talk with the program owner(s) for a compromise if they're even willing to do so.
If an affiliate sees it as "fucking me over", then I advise him/her to pull their links, otherwise, swallow their pride and surrender to their new TOS.

[MrCain]

After what they did, I wouldn't trust them anymore if I was sending them sales.

[selena]

Originally Posted by Kelli58

Other affiliate programs have similar policies including Vivid, and Playboy. Buy a Playboy owned trademark domain name and watch how fast they sue your ass.

Vivid sent out letters like two years ago stating the same thing - our trademark, don't use it.

In the what it comes down to is, these companies HAVE to take every effort to protect their trademark or they have a worthless mark. Whoever doesn't understand that then clearly needs a few lessons in business.

This reply makes me

Fleshlight wasn't concerned about protecting their trademark in the prior years that they gave him permission to use it. Whoever doesn't understand that needs a few lessons in what it is like to be an affiliate.

[alias]

Voted bullshit.

[DVTimes]

to be honest it buged me when they switched there payment sysatem, and i had to add a lot of new links.

i wonder how much lost sales i got.

anyway i am sure they will change there mind as it seems rather silly.

to be honest i do not understand at day one they did not say not to use the name in your domain name.

[DVTimes]

i suspect that most sales come from search results and they want only there domain name to apear, which i can understand.

but they were foolish to alow this from the start.

the logical thing to do is at very least give 6 months of yours earnings in payment for your domain name.

[DVTimes]

the sad thing is, i do like the site/product.

i do not want to bad mouth them as its such a shame.

[_Richard_]

i thought the question of whether or not it's a trademark infringement was interesting

[ruff]

It was an all out asshole thing to do. Fl*shlight fucked over an affiliate in the worst possible way, they do not think they have done anything wrong and their business goes on. You can promote them or not. Personally, I'm done with them and any other sponsor that conducts business this way. If someone shits in your soup, you do not have to eat it. Some people eat the soup, but you don't have to.

This is not rock science. This kind of behavior cannot be rationalized. It is obvious to everyone it was a shit thing to do. They have no defense.

[NetHorse]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

i thought the question of whether or not it's a trademark infringement was interesting

It is trademark infringement, he's pushing fleshlights on a domain with the trademarked word fleshlight in the domain name.

That's not the point though. He knew that he would need permission to use that domain, got permission then spent years generating traffic, serps while making 10s of thousands for them with that domain name.

Until one day they changed their minds, threatened him and demanded he transfer all his hard work with the domain name to them. Whether or not that was the strategy all along isn't the point either.

For example, I could create a brand new product today, encourage people to use my trademarked term to better promote my product through an affiliate program. Let my affiliates spend the next 3-5 years building an empire of sites with my trademarked term, then get greedy and demand all the domains be transferred to me.

I could claim it wasn't my intention all along, but the end result was I fucked over everyone and took all their hard work.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by NetHorse

It is trademark infringement, he's pushing fleshlights on a domain with the trademarked word fleshlight in the domain name.

That's not the point though. He knew that he would need permission to use that domain, got permission then spent years generating traffic, serps while making 10s of thousands for them with that domain name.

Until one day they changed their minds, threatened him and demanded he transfer all his hard work with the domain name to them. Whether or not that was the strategy all along isn't the point either.

For example, I could create a brand new product today, encourage people to use my trademarked term to better promote my product through an affiliate program. Let my affiliates spend the next 3-5 years building an empire of sites with my trademarked term, then get greedy and demand all the domains be transferred to me.

I could claim it wasn't my intention all along, but the end result was I fucked over everyone and took all their hard work.

i believe that it falls under fair use. the person is promoting the actual product

[will76]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

i believe that it falls under fair use. the person is promoting the actual product

I wonder if the fact that they gave permission to do this and knowingly allowed him to do it for so many years, if that would have nullified their claim of "infringement".

I am sure one of our resident attorneys could answer that one. Ultimately, they can choose to cancel him as an affiliate, but they don't have the right to keep his money. If he has legal grounds to keep the domain and they did cancel him they would only be hurting themselves as he could direct that traffic to one of their competitors.

[lagcam]

Like most people here, I have no dog in this fight but I thought the matter had been resolved to the satisfaction of the people concerned?

It has been written many times here that you will always be on shaky ground as an affiliate using a domain with somebody else's trademark in it. Pretty much every company's terms state that they can change their terms when they want to. Fleshlight changed their terms. I don't think they did it just to get this guy's domain (whatever it was).

I know you thrive on negativity Will but why do you not consider how much money he made during the years he WAS able to use that domain? Without question, the word fleshlight being in the domain name will have helped his sales.

Didn't you use to use teamclickcash.com to promote clickcash? What happened with that?

[stocktrader23]

Originally Posted by lagcam

Like most people here, I have no dog in this fight but I thought the matter had been resolved to the satisfaction of the people concerned?

It has been written many times here that you will always be on shaky ground as an affiliate using a domain with somebody else's trademark in it. Pretty much every company's terms state that they can change their terms when they want to. Fleshlight changed their terms. I don't think they did it just to get this guy's domain (whatever it was).

I know you thrive on negativity Will but why do you not consider how much money he made during the years he WAS able to use that domain? Without question, the word fleshlight being in the domain name will have helped his sales.

Didn't you use to use teamclickcash.com to promote clickcash? What happened with that?

IT. IS. LEGAL.

The fact that they held his money hostage until he gave up HIS domain IS. BULL. SHIT.

[will76]

Originally Posted by lagcam

Like most people here, I have no dog in this fight but I thought the matter had been resolved to the satisfaction of the people concerned?

It has been written many times here that you will always be on shaky ground as an affiliate using a domain with somebody else's trademark in it. Pretty much every company's terms state that they can change their terms when they want to. Fleshlight changed their terms. I don't think they did it just to get this guy's domain (whatever it was).

Correct, they can change their terms at any time. No one is saying they "couldn't" do what they did, we just saying what they did was pretty shitty. After saying it was ok to do, they up and decided one day that you can't do it any more and your checks are no being held unless you transfer the ownership of the domain over. Not, shut down the site and we will pay you, but transfer the ownership of the domain over to us or we wont pay you.

Also, as I stated, they could have just as easily made a deal with him where he transfers ownership of the domain to them but they leave the site up with his affiliate id on it. Why wouldn't that be a fair option? They get the domain, they own it, no potential trade mark issues. He continues to make affiliate sales.

Like I said, we agree any company can up and change their TOS at any time. But the ones who do pull shit like this are the ones that people need to watch out for. Some sponsors pull crap like this, change their TOS and it fucks their affiliate, some sponsors never change their terms and never do anything to fuck their affiliates. We can't stop them from changing their TOS but we can make sure to point out who the companies are that do that to their affiliates.

Originally Posted by lagcam

I know you thrive on negativity Will but why do you not consider how much money he made during the years he WAS able to use that domain? Without question, the word fleshlight being in the domain name will have helped his sales.

Didn't you use to use teamclickcash.com to promote clickcash? What happened with that?

I guess you can say I "thrive" on negative just as much as you thrive on jumping into a lot of these types of threads to share your wisdom with everyone. /sarcasm to each his own lots of people post here for different reasons, for some reason people can't just accept after 8 years that I enjoy this just as much as you enjoy trying to sound like the smart guy, or Currently Sobber enjoys liking poo, paul enjoys listening to himself, other idiots enjoy arguing about politics all day.

I am sorry my posting style does not meet the approval of some of the people here. Perhaps I should spend more time in the "would you hit it" threads or arguing about politics instead of calling out sponsors who fuck affiliates. oh fucking well.

Since you care so much, I asked clickcash's permission before registering the domain. They said no problem. The website is still live. Hope that satisfies your curiosity.

[lagcam]

Originally Posted by stocktrader23

IT. IS. LEGAL.

The fact that they held his money hostage until he gave up HIS domain IS. BULL. SHIT.

Yes that is bullshit, nobody disagrees with that. It was a bad tactic that neither the OP nor any affiliate for that matter deserves but the fact of the matter is that due to the original thread on GFY (not this one) the matter was resolved to the satisfaction of the people concerned and the thread was closed ie nothing more to discuss.

We have all learned from this episode, and I am sure that Fleshlight in particular will handle similar cases better in the future. Stopping promoting something just because of one badly handled matter is silly.

As I said before, whatever a company's stated terms of business at the outset, using a trademarked word or phrase in a domain name is asking for trouble.