ACACIA - Real Old Timers Please Read

[freeadultcontent]

I first posted about this Acacia shit back in 2002, I was/am one of the early targets. Plenty of threads about the shit now, so no need to talk about who is being targeted, giving in, or whatnot.

In the 80's I used to run BBS's (hence my request for old timers to read this thread).

Back then aside from most all images coming in GIF format, there was some ugly ass movies available. I just pulled the few CD's that I have remaining from then and unfortunatly could not find one of them on any of the ones I still had.

I know some of you must have ran BBS's in the 80's as well. Do any of you at all still have copies of your old files? If so do you have any of these early porn movies from back then?

If I am correct Lee Noga was in this field, plus whomever used to run Rusty and Eddies (is that the right name), other companies like Ero Tek Publishing, The Nova Group, Graphical Images of Florida.

Someone out here must still have such files or know some of the people that used to make em that may still have them laying around. I know this will help, so who has them?

[FillmoreSlim]

What format were they in back then?

How were they broadcast?

[KRL]

[Pornwolf]

I'm not an old timer but I know a good idea when I see one.

[freeadultcontent]

Originally posted by FillmoreSlim
What format were they in back then?

How were they broadcast?

Thats my problem, my memory is blurry. If I remember correctly it used something done with an Apple computer. The board members would have to also download a player they would install on their PC's that would allow for them to watch the actual movie clip.

The broadcasting really is not that big of an issue in connection with ACACIA since it is the same in theory.

You have a PC, you download or install realplayer, media player, quicktime or whatever. Back then you downloaded and installed some DOS 3.1 or whatever player.

Today you click a link, it downloads the movie in its whole or in pieces as it plays. Back then you just had to download all of it and then play it.

Playing is playing. Downloading is downloading. Today its just faster connections, fiber optics and such, back then was just phone line to phone line. Not much has really changed.

[FillmoreSlim]

Originally posted by freeadultcontent

Playing is playing. Downloading is downloading. Today its just faster connections, fiber optics and such, back then was just phone line to phone line. Not much has really changed.

Streaming is Streaming

[Mr.Fiction]

Most of my files from the 80's were from Apple and I think they were donated or destroyed years ago.

However, if this is a possible solution, I'm sure there are some experts on 80's BBS technology that you could find through Google to help out.

[The Truth Hurts]

Weren't they like .flc or something...

I dumped all my BBS floppies last year, so I can't say for sure.

[Digipimp]

About as far back as I remember is watching shitty Vivo clips and having to download their shitty player. So that I could see a 100 x 100 vid with sound or some shit.

[goBigtime]

Originally posted by freeadultcontent

Back then aside from most all images coming in GIF format, there was some ugly ass movies available.

I know some of you must have ran BBS's in the 80's as well. Do any of you at all still have copies of your old files? If so do you have any of these early porn movies from back then?

I swear I remember blocky/muddy movies on the commodore 64 or the Amiga. I'll call my computer packrat friend and see what he can dig up.

[goBigtime]

look familiar?

http://www.vgmuseum.com/end/c64/a/sama.htm

[twistyneck]

This isn't exactly what you are looking for but it may be helpful nonetheless.

http://homepages.uel.ac.uk/S.L.Pogod.../timeline.html

http://www.bootstrap.org/engelbart/hist_pix/index.jsp

[AssFairy]

Originally posted by freeadultcontent
I first posted about this Acacia shit back in 2002, I was/am one of the early targets. Plenty of threads about the shit now, so no need to talk about who is being targeted, giving in, or whatnot.

In the 80's I used to run BBS's (hence my request for old timers to read this thread).

Back then aside from most all images coming in GIF format, there was some ugly ass movies available. I just pulled the few CD's that I have remaining from then and unfortunatly could not find one of them on any of the ones I still had.

I know some of you must have ran BBS's in the 80's as well. Do any of you at all still have copies of your old files? If so do you have any of these early porn movies from back then?

If I am correct Lee Noga was in this field, plus whomever used to run Rusty and Eddies (is that the right name), other companies like Ero Tek Publishing, The Nova Group, Graphical Images of Florida.

Someone out here must still have such files or know some of the people that used to make em that may still have them laying around. I know this will help, so who has them?

I kid you not you should check out some of the very early Amiga software, as far as I am aware movie formats were available there long before the PC

Look for scene demo's

[volante]

Originally posted by The Truth Hurts
Weren't they like .flc or something...

I dumped all my BBS floppies last year, so I can't say for sure.

I'm pretty certain it was .flc/.fli files:

http://woodshole.er.usgs.gov/operati...eling/flc.html

Edit: This was in the late 80's/early 90's when I was at university - not sure what was before that...

[freeadultcontent]

I think a Targa viewer comes to mind. God wish I never would have deleted my old bbs directory.

[AssFairy]

God damit AMIGA you bastards
We had move formats first plus software to capture analogue video and encode to ASCI

[freeadultcontent]

Wasnt Amiga basicly Apple? Did I not mention that in my first post.

Hmmm didnt Wastelands also use to be a BBS? Do any of you know Rowntree? If so can one of you please ask him?

[goBigtime]

IFF --- Specification released in 1985

[goBigtime]

Originally posted by freeadultcontent
Wasnt Amiga basicly Apple?

No.

[goBigtime]

Originally posted by AssFairy
God damit AMIGA you bastards
We had move formats first plus software to capture analogue video and encode to ASCI

Deluxe Paint

[Digipimp]

Originally posted by freeadultcontent
Wasnt Amiga basicly Apple? Did I not mention that in my first post.

Hmmm didnt Wastelands also use to be a BBS? Do any of you know Rowntree? If so can one of you please ask him?

No they weren't Apple. Steve Jobs considered making an offer on Amiga but believe they're hardware needed different setup or something along that lines, I think the only people to really step up were Atari, but I'm not positive on that.

I do believe the Amiga's used the same processor as some of the first macs though.

[freeadultcontent]

Ok date is quasi established, a format is somewhat done as well, would like to see a few more.

Now can anyone dig up some files and a player? Same Era, nothing that requires technology developed after the file or player was in use.

[crescentx]

If someone can prove it existed before the "patent" - Acacia is screwed. Countersuits across the board against a company that lost $25m in sales in one year. $887K in rev in 2002 - so set the amount to $1.6m.

-doug

[goBigtime]

And if you want to eliminated the claim of "Reception and trasmission"....

You take one of these older movie formats, and you couple it with whatever existing local networking technology that was available, then, in a player program on server A, open the file that resides on server B and viola! Prior art

[freeadultcontent]

Apple, Amiga, Atari, I do not care if it was a TSR-80 (thanks for the Amiga lesson though ). Im looking for hard info showing usage.

[AssFairy]

Originally posted by freeadultcontent
Wasnt Amiga basicly Apple? Did I not mention that in my first post.

Hmmm didnt Wastelands also use to be a BBS? Do any of you know Rowntree? If so can one of you please ask him?

I don't think Amiga has any direct ties to Apple but it attracted some of the worlds best coders bar none, I'd bet my left nut that the first movie format on a home computer was produced for one of the yearly coding competitions and wes released as a scene demo on the Amiga.

If its important to know all the early computer movie formats I have a bunch of mates who were all born and bred on pet computers ZX80 - 81 Vic 20 C64 ect ect and they have huge archives of all early software.
As for fli/flc there are much older formats than that

[Mr.Fiction]

Hey freeadultcontent. Have you talked to this guy:

http://www.bustpatents.com/

He breaks patents for a living. You should talk to him, get a price quote, then come back here and get some of us to chip in. I bet you could raise $10k in a few hours if you had a specific attack plan.

[AssFairy]

Originally posted by goBigtime



Deluxe Paint

Ahhhhhhhhhh

[goBigtime]

Where is the IMPA???

It would really help if this pack of ready & willing bloodhounds knew exactly what we should be looking for.

I mean are animations covered here? What qualifies as receiption and transmission?

Anyone have a laymans version of what these broad patents cover?


BTW... the date we are fighting against is July of 1992.
(Filed Jan 7, 1991)

Heres an article from silicon investor




Here's the abstract from patent #5,132,992 -- their main patent. :


A system of distributing video and/or audio information employs digital signal processing to achieve high rates of data compression. The compressed and encoded audio and/or video information is sent over standard telephone, cable or satellite broadcast channels to a receiver specified by a subscriber of the service, preferably in less than real time, for later playback and optional recording on standard audio and/or video tape.

[Digipimp]

So that patents that Acacia has that they bought from Greenwich Tech or some shit only begin in 1992. There has to be some thing before that for sure.

[freeadultcontent]

Originally posted by AssFairy
I don't think Amiga has any direct ties to Apple but it attracted some of the worlds best coders bar none, I'd bet my left nut that the first movie format on a home computer was produced for one of the yearly coding competitions and wes released as a scene demo on the Amiga.

If its important to know all the early computer movie formats I have a bunch of mates who were all born and bred on pet computers ZX80 - 81 Vic 20 C64 ect ect and they have huge archives of all early software.
As for fli/flc there are much older formats than that

That may help, but what I am looking for is a file that would be placed on one computer in a download section, where another person who called that computer over a phone line could then download it and play it on another computer.

[freeadultcontent]

Originally posted by Mr.Fiction
Hey freeadultcontent. Have you talked to this guy:

http://www.bustpatents.com/

He breaks patents for a living. You should talk to him, get a price quote, then come back here and get some of us to chip in. I bet you could raise $10k in a few hours if you had a specific attack plan.

No someone a hell of a lot more organized than me can handle that. I trust there is some people already doing that. I right now want history and usage.

Acacia bought a patent, they did not do the patent. Therefore busting Acacia's patent would not help no? So in my little warped brain I am thinking that the original patent is the one to be challenged.

I do not think I am smart enough to understand all of this. Yet if the 92 patent is challenged, would it be Acacia who would have to fight or the company that patented it in the first place?

[Digipimp]

Originally posted by freeadultcontent


That may help, but what I am looking for is a file that would be placed on one computer in a download section, where another person who called that computer over a phone line could then download it and play it on another computer.

I can't remember offhand but I do know that Quicktime 1.0 was released in the summer of 91 which is before the patents Acacia owned and I don't see why a Quicktime movie couldn't have been placed as a file to be downloaded at that time? Tell me if I'm way off on this one.

[slavdogg]

i remember some .gl movie files in the early 90s
also .mpg and .avi were around as well

i cant seem to remember others..

[AssFairy]

Originally posted by freeadultcontent


That may help, but what I am looking for is a file that would be placed on one computer in a download section, where another person who called that computer over a phone line could then download it and play it on another computer.

Sort of think I know what you mean, we used to use prestell long before the internet was what it is now and most people would have lists of private telephone numbers to log into small networks.

I still bet my left nut on Amiga having the first movie format that was freely available to the public, having said that you can bet your ass that machines like the Kray were playing animated movies 10 years earlier.

[crescentx]

btw, amiga kicked ass. Never owned one - too much $ - but remember programming a used C64 when I was a kid. Played Battleship on a Hazeltine when I was nine.



-doug

[goBigtime]

Originally posted by goBigtime



A system of distributing video and/or audio information employs digital signal processing to achieve high rates of data compression. The compressed and encoded audio and/or video information is sent over standard telephone, cable or satellite broadcast channels to a receiver specified by a subscriber of the service, preferably in less than real time, for later playback and optional recording on standard audio and/or video tape.

Log in to a paid Amiga BBS service (over telephone line using your modem) download a file (in less than real-time, for later playback) open it up in the player, optionally amiga had A/V out for option recording on standard audio and/or video tape.

Are we done?

[DiVo]

Excellent information to have.

Not entirely related, but for real real old timers...

1964 Worlds Fair

http://www.techtv.com/screensavers/t...323224,00.html

Their are so many holes in this process...

[goBigtime]

Originally posted by DiVo

http://www.techtv.com/screensavers/t...323224,00.html

Famous Netcam: 1964 World's Fair

Damn. That's a good one.


Also:
Famous Netcam: Bell System Picture Phone -- 1927

http://www.techtv.com/screensavers/t...323223,00.html

[AssFairy]

Originally posted by goBigtime



Log in to a paid Amiga BBS service (over telephone line using your modem) download a file (in less than real-time, for later playback) open it up in the player, optionally amiga had A/V out for option recording on standard audio and/or video tape.

Are we done?

If real time is an issue then you should cast your mind back to modem speeds, my first was 300/75 and would take much longer to download than playback.

[freeadultcontent]

Correct me if I am wrong but we can not do real time now. There always will be some sort of lag.

[goBigtime]

Originally posted by AssFairy


If real time is an issue then you should cast your mind back to modem speeds, my first was 300/75 and would take much longer to download than playback.

Right, they specifically say in the abstract "preferrably less than real-time" -- meaning download it & play it.

[homegrownmof]

Originally posted by goBigtime
Where is the IMPA???

It would really help if this pack of ready & willing bloodhounds knew exactly what we should be looking for.

I mean are animations covered here? What qualifies as receiption and transmission?

Anyone have a laymans version of what these broad patents cover?


BTW... the date we are fighting against is July of 1992.
(Filed Jan 7, 1991)

Heres an article from silicon investor




Here's the abstract from patent #5,132,992 -- their main patent. :


A system of distributing video and/or audio information employs digital signal processing to achieve high rates of data compression. The compressed and encoded audio and/or video information is sent over standard telephone, cable or satellite broadcast channels to a receiver specified by a subscriber of the service, preferably in less than real time, for later playback and optional recording on standard audio and/or video tape.

This thread will be forwarded to the IMPA and F&R asap.

Thanks and keep up the great work!

Less legal armchair quarterbacking and more in depth tech prior use research is always appreciated.

[Dusen]

There were files called GL and DL if I remember correctly. Just a bunch of pictures put into an animation, glorified slide show.

Those were all over the BBS's.

Old school though, I may be way off.

[ytcracker]

i may be young but i've been on the computer for quite some time.

the flis and flcs were autodesk animator files if memory serves. i wasn't looking at porn and stuff back then, but FLIs/FLCs could be chained with this presentation software that came with soundblaster sound cards. i'm really in the dark about what these patents concern and i will look into the specifics here in a sec.

in a nutshell, is this acacia company threatening anyone who utilizes movies on their website? what is the ultimate goal of subverting this patent and what does it entail?

[goBigtime]

Originally posted by freeadultcontent

Yet if the 92 patent is challenged, would it be Acacia who would have to fight or the company that patented it in the first place?

I believe since Acacia owns it, it's their job to defend & protect it. Not sure why the previous owner/inventor would be required to defend it or have anything to do with it at this point.

[goBigtime]

Originally posted by Digipimp


I can't remember offhand but I do know that Quicktime 1.0 was released in the summer of 91 which is before the patents Acacia owned and I don't see why a Quicktime movie couldn't have been placed as a file to be downloaded at that time? Tell me if I'm way off on this one.

I was thinking this exact thing about 5 mins ago... it's in the queue for research

I know I remember seeing .mov formats on the Amiga... although they probably didn't have support for them till a year or so after they came out (could be wrong)

Did mac's have modems in 1991?

But you know..... man.. summer of 1991 you say?

This patent was filed in the summer of 1991.

What are the odds that the original "inventor" was a Mac user who got off on the keynotes that summer?

You know how Apple is always very forwardly optimistic about the possible uses of their technology?

I wonder if there are transcripts from the keynotes somewhere?

Very interesting dates there MacPimp

[goBigtime]

.

[Digipimp]

Originally posted by goBigtime



I was thinking this exact thing about 5 mins ago... it's in the queue for research

I know I remember seeing .mov formats on the Amiga... although they probably didn't have support for them till a year or so after they came out (could be wrong)

Did mac's have modems in 1991?

But you know..... man.. summer of 1991 you say?

This patent was filed in the summer of 1991.

What are the odds that the original "inventor" was a Mac user who got off on the keynotes that summer?

You know how Apple is always very forwardly optimistic about the possible uses of their technology?

I wonder if there are transcripts from the keynotes somewhere?

Very interesting dates there MacPimp

Yeah man I'm almost positive they had modems called GeoPorts or something like that. Quicktime shipped in mass before the end of 91 I think it was December when it shipped and was on their systems.

[freeadultcontent]

Originally posted by homegrownmof



This thread will be forwarded to the IMPA and F&R asap.

Thanks and keep up the great work!

Less legal armchair quarterbacking and more in depth tech prior use research is always appreciated.

That is my thinking. Legal work is for lawyers, judges and the juries. I just want facts of use before the patent, and wide scale ones at that.


So two dude sitting in the Xerox developers basement, fussing over how they just got some PCs to talk to each other and sending stick figures to each other doing jumping jacks, really is not wide scale. The BBS scene however was.

And if I recall rusty and eddies was brought up on charges by the FBI, files were siezed, membership info etc. That should be public record.