Just Curious... For Those Actually in This Business

[Robbie]

It won't stop the bleeding but it will definitely help. The music industry and the movie industry are in the same fight like we are. They are not only surviving but thriving. There is an answer, we just have to keep looking.

I don't know why everybody keeps saying the music industry is "thriving".

NO it's not. You look at the billboard charts and it's a catastrophe. And all the single song downloads everyone says is "thriving"...not compared to what it was when musicians were really making money.

Look, I've been a pro musician since I was 8 years old (playing steel guitar around the country in 1969). The music industry is a ghost town/shell of what it once was.

ITunes can still make some money. But Jesus Christ! Don't any of you remember when a major band used to ship an album PLATINUM! And "platinum" back then meant ONE MILLION.

That shit hardly happens at all anymore. Used to happen every week because EVERYBODY bought the new albums and singles.

The music industry is on life support. And the only thing making real money (compared to what it once was at it's height) are the big (old) bands going on worldwide multi-year tours.

The movie industry is an entirely different beast. It's an EXPERIENCE.
You don't take your wife and kids to the living room to watch a ripped version of the newest movie on your computer on a Friday night.
No.
You take them to the MOVIE THEATER. It's a night out for your family. Or a date.

Totally different.

And having said that...BOTH of those things are COMPLETELY different from the porn business.
People get their porn when they are ALONE.
And they have to be sneaky to buy it (so their wives or girlfriends don't catch them)

Having it given away for free DESTROYS the business model of selling porn in ways that don't touch the music or movies industry.

[pornsprite]

I know from experience that I make more money when my content is not easy to get for free.

Examples: 2009 I spent hours and hours and thousands of dollars going after a site named wp-board.com. I got it shut down and you can read the entire story here:

http://wp-board.com/

Within 60 days I had broken my all time sales record (most active subscribers at one time) by at least 500 members and I managed to retain those members a long damn time.

I also made almost $200,000.00 in settlements - 1/2 of which was given to charities.

I have 2 guys that are still paying me monthly on settlements, and are active paying subscribers!

Fast forward to summer 2011. I found a forum with my stuff - full site rips and every update posted. I was able to get a few real names and sued guys (Google: James S. Grady VS. )... as soon as suits started that forum, and two others, took down sections / posts related to my stuff. Days later, I could watch sales climb.

Both years I had done nothing else (no promos, no discounts, no ads) that would cause the increased sales. All I did was cut off the source of free stuff.

For me - its not about thinking it will be like the glory days if we can kill file lockers. They are gone.

Its about improving today and making them as good for business as possible.

Posting real information surely makes your reply more authoritive than most. Thanks for sharing.

[The Porn Nerd]

Trust me when I say this people, for I worked in that Biz for fifteen years:

The Music Business is DEAD.

Carry on.

[TheSquealer]

Trust me when I say this people, for I worked in that Biz for fifteen years:

The Music Business is DEAD.

Carry on.

"Music business is dead"

meaning

"people ultimately resent and ultimately refused to be forced to pay for $11 for a shitty CD that only really has one good song on it"

[Jim_Gunn]

"Music business is dead"

meaning

"people ultimately resent and ultimately refused to be forced to pay for $11 for a shitty CD that only really has one good song on it"

That's always been a preposterous argument made by people to justify their illegally downloaded music collections. Any and every idiot that ever purchased a CD with only one good song on it deserved to get taken. I had a large CD collection at one time with every release by all my favorite bands and I got more than my $11 share of entertainment out of the listening every time. Especially with music, people tend to listen over and over and over to their faves.

[Robbie]

That's always been a preposterous argument made by people to justify their illegally downloaded music collections. Any and every idiot that ever purchased a CD with only one good song on it deserved to get taken. I had a large CD collection at one time with every release by all my favorite bands and I got more than my $11 share of entertainment out of the listening every time. Especially with music, people tend to listen over and over and over to their faves.

Damn straight. All my albums were by my favorite bands. I listened to ALL of the album and enjoyed them: Zeppelin, Stones, The Who, The Beatles, The Cult, Metallica, Nirvana...it didn't really matter.

If I liked a band I liked their style and was interested in the entire album.
I doubt very seriously that anybody ever bought "Dark Side Of The Moon" for one song.

And last I checked nobody in history was ever "forced" to buy any albums. If you had a favorite song...it comes on the radio constantly. You never had to go out and buy and entire album for that one song. And not only that...but most bands used to release SINGLES as well. Once vinyl was replaced by cassette tape and then CD that became less of an option of course. But as I said before...nobody ever was forced to buy anything.

But MOST people are true fans of the bands they love and WANTED to buy the albums. I have never heard anybody in real life tell me that they wish they hadn't bought an album of a band they liked. Never.

[Paul Markham]

"Music business is dead"

meaning

"people ultimately resent and ultimately refused to be forced to pay for $11 for a shitty CD that only really has one good song on it"

The pirates steal what ever they can and earn from downloads of the best music. I can find anyone of the the great CDs being pirated. That's just an excuse.

Producing great albums takes money. Try doing it with a budget decimated by piracy. It's the same as porn. It's hard make great porn or music paying peanuts.

Can they buy the one great song for a few dollars on iTunes?

Yet still prefer to steal it.

[Barefootsies]

But MOST people are true fans of the bands they love and WANTED to buy the albums. I have never heard anybody in real life tell me that they wish they hadn't bought an album of a band they liked. Never.

True. I think most fans actually enjoy supporting the bands they like.

[TheSquealer]

That's always been a preposterous argument made by people to justify their illegally downloaded music collections. Any and every idiot that ever purchased a CD with only one good song on it deserved to get taken. I had a large CD collection at one time with every release by all my favorite bands and I got more than my $11 share of entertainment out of the listening every time. Especially with music, people tend to listen over and over and over to their faves.

I'm not arguing that its ok to steal. I'm just pointing out that when given the choice, people are going to act how they act and their motivations are often much more diverse and complex than people would make it seem.

[TheSquealer]

To put it another way, the industry changed in terms of how music could become available and distributed. The consumers reacted in my opinion in a way which makes perfect sense. In years past, they had no choice but to accept that if you really like "xyz" song, then you have to pay $11.00 for it. When a new option came, people jumped on it. Additionally, all peoples motivations aren't "i want to steal as much as possible, as often as possible". People do what they do for a lot of reasons. As most people know, people have ZERO problems supporting artists they like, buying CDs after downloading them and so on. I'm not saying its ok to steal, i'm saying that when the labels lost control of how music reached consumers, Apple was the only one really who reacted in a way to meet the demands/needs of those consumers. Labels STILL are fumbling around like a bunch of computer illiterate seniors who can't understand why its so damn hard to just get rid of cars and go back to horse and buggies where they were making more money.

Again, i'm not saying its ok to steal. But if i charge 10.00 per can of coke because there is nothing else to drink, and through me is the only way to obtain and drink it, then it shouldn't be a real shock when people will steal the coke, given the chance to do so. Especially when you don't give them any other way to pay 5.00 or 3.00 or whatever the market deems it to be truly worth.

[The Porn Nerd]

The #1 problem with downloading and the music industry is that they DEVALUED the worth of music. How?

A song is only "worth" $0.99!!!!!!! So c'mon, I'm just 'stealing' something that's less than a buck! Come prosecute me!!

Ridiculous.

Porn is now 'devalued', movies are 'devalued', EVERY GODDAMN THING has become Wal-Marted for our mass consumption, meant to be disposable.

Porn? Here's an idea: charge $59.95 for a month's membership. Time to RE-VALUE PORN.

Prolly won't work now tho, the horse is out of the barn so to speak.

[Paul Markham]

Damn straight. All my albums were by my favorite bands. I listened to ALL of the album and enjoyed them: Zeppelin, Stones, The Who, The Beatles, The Cult, Metallica, Nirvana...it didn't really matter.

Can you tell the difference between these bands?

Can you tell the difference between 90% of the porn online?

How can anyone stay loyal if there's nothing to stay loyal to?

[Barefootsies]

The #1 problem with downloading and the music industry is that they DEVALUED the worth of music. How?

A song is only "worth" $0.99!!!!!!! So c'mon, I'm just 'stealing' something that's less than a buck! Come prosecute me!!

Ridiculous.

There is the logical flip side to that point of view.

The ridiculous part is not the prosecution of the thief, but the fact " I'm just 'stealing' something that's less than a buck!" Exactly. It costs less than a buck, and you're still stealing it.

Last I knew, the dollar amount was not the issue in the discussion, but the act it's self.