What has hurt selling porn online the most?

[Paul Markham]

OK anyone who thinks online is selling better than ever can go back to their Mum's basement and carry on with the drugs.

Free porn. Too much.

Tubes. Too much.

Piracy. Too much.

Crap sites. Too much.

Scammings. Too much.

All of the above.

Online porn itself hurt selling online porn.

[Paul Markham]

For me it's online workers killed it by doing all of the above.

[KLAN]

Tubes indeed.
I speak with a lot of ppl about online porn and everyone always say: "I do not download porn anymore, nor buy it since I find all on tubes."

[Tempest]

You should have made them checkboxes or something...

This online industry came about because of free porn.. The "boom" was because of free porn.. So can one really blame it? Who knows.. Tubes are just an extension of free porn.

Two things have killed the biz in my opinion...

The financial crisis which had CC companies slashing peoples available credit and of course everyone getting into financial trouble and so not being able to spend like they used to.

The second, which is the fundamental one and a natural progression really, is when ppl/companies realized they could make money from their traffic as opposed to promoting porn memberships. First it started with selling banner spots, then charging for getting galleries listed and from there to the current model for tubes. It's no longer about promoting porn. It's about using porn as a way to generate traffic in order to sell advertising space.

So people can bitch about tubes, too much free porn etc but that's not what's done it. It's primarily been the fundamental industry shift from selling porn, to selling traffic.

And that my friend, is why traffic is always king. That's where the real money is.

[KLAN]

You should have made them checkboxes or something...

This online industry came about because of free porn.. The "boom" was because of free porn.. So can one really blame it? Who knows.. Tubes are just an extension of free porn.

Two things have killed the biz in my opinion...

The financial crisis which had CC companies slashing peoples available credit and of course everyone getting into financial trouble and so not being able to spend like they used to.

The second, which is the fundamental one and a natural progression really, is when ppl/companies realized they could make money from their traffic as opposed to promoting porn memberships. First it started with selling banner spots, then charging for getting galleries listed and from there to the current model for tubes. It's no longer about promoting porn. It's about using porn as a way to generate traffic in order to sell advertising space.

So people can bitch about tubes, too much free porn etc but that's not what's done it. It's primarily been the fundamental industry shift from selling porn, to selling traffic.

And that my friend, is why traffic is always king. That's where the real money is.

That's a logical sequence of facts! I agree with your deductive reasoning!

[DamianJ]

Paul, do you sit there of a morning and wonder to yourself "how can I post the same old shit I always post, but put it in a new thread"?

Is this like a crossword puzzle for you? Repeating yourself with slight, almost imperceptible, changes in the language you use to make the same two points?

[Paul Markham]

This online industry came about because of free porn.. The "boom" was because of free porn.. So can one really blame it? Who knows.. Tubes are just an extension of free porn.

You assume, they wouldn't of come for paid porn?

Guys who used to have to go to the shops, could now access it from their home. But only came to online porn because it was free.

Financial crisis is effecting online biz in other sectors. In a good way mostly.

traffic sellers need someone to sell to. The value of their traffic is determined by the value of the market and traffic. In that order.

Who do you sell traffic to if every thing's free, or more and more is going over to free. Your income isn't determined by the volume of clickers, it's determined by the volume of sales of those clickers, it that's falling. Your income falls.

And that my friend, is why sales is always king. That's where the only money is.

Good luck selling traffic when it doesn't buy much.

[devilspost]

Show me a free porn site like this http://t5.analteenangels.com/home/

[Tempest]

You assume, they wouldn't of come for paid porn?

Are you talking the reality of history or your wishfull thinking... You asked about what hurt SELLING PORN ONLINE.. Keep your topics straight.

How about we actually talk about reality instead of some fantasy dream.

The internet porn biz came about because of guys making scanned images freely available on websites, prior to that newsgroups and old style BBSs.. From there someone offered to buy a banner spot for something on a site and the biz was born. Paysites came AFTER free porn and traffic.

traffic sellers need someone to sell to. The value of their traffic is determined by the value of the market and traffic. In that order.

Who do you sell traffic to if every thing's free, or more and more is going over to free. Your income isn't determined by the volume of clickers, it's determined by the volume of sales of those clickers, it that's falling. Your income falls.

And that my friend, is why sales is always king. That's where the only money is.

Good luck selling traffic when it doesn't buy much.

Again.. You asked about what hurt selling porn online... The future is unwritten and the same can be said of every business model that sells advertising space. As long as sites like tubes have the traffic, there will be someone willing to buy that traffic whether it's dating sites, cams, sex toys, penis pills or whatever. It does not matter one bit if every porn paysite out there disappeared tomorrow because there will be something that porn surfers will be willing to buy and thus can be advertised on the traffic sites. Yes, demand for buying advertising on those sites can and will diminish over time as more and more porn membership companies die. But everything is cyclic and eventually things will come back around again but not for many years to come.

As I said.. The industry is no longer about selling porn memberships. It's about generating traffic and selling advertising space. The reality though is that the online biz has really always been about traffic. It's just that because affiliates were getting paid a commission on paysite memberships that things weren't really black and white. But in effect, the porn membership companies were paying affiliates for advertising.. For their traffic... The smart guys figured out early that their business was about traffic generation, not about making pretty sites and thus they threw as much porn at the surfer as they could in order to generate that traffic.

Seriously dude.. What products do google, facebook etc sell? None. They sell advertising space to those that have products to sell. I understand it's a difficult concept to grasp but surely you should be cluing in by now.

[L-Pink]

Not again!

.

[ertiope]

Paul Markham hurt online porn the most.. by far.. him going on and on and on about FUCKING NOTHING hurt porn the most.

[alias]

[anexsia]

[Paul Markham]

Are you talking the reality of history or your wishfull thinking... You asked about what hurt SELLING PORN ONLINE.. Keep your topics straight.

How about we actually talk about reality instead of some fantasy dream.

The internet porn biz came about because of guys making scanned images freely available on websites, prior to that newsgroups and old style BBSs.. From there someone offered to buy a banner spot for something on a site and the biz was born. Paysites came AFTER free porn and traffic.

So free porn hurt the selling of porn online. So the continual building of free increased the harm. Yes people were already online and people started to sell them porn online. As connections grew, traffic grew.

Again.. You asked about what hurt selling porn online... The future is unwritten and the same can be said of every business model that sells advertising space. As long as sites like tubes have the traffic, there will be someone willing to buy that traffic whether it's dating sites, cams, sex toys, penis pills or whatever. It does not matter one bit if every porn paysite out there disappeared tomorrow because there will be something that porn surfers will be willing to buy and thus can be advertised on the traffic sites. Yes, demand for buying advertising on those sites can and will diminish over time as more and more porn membership companies die. But everything is cyclic and eventually things will come back around again but not for many years to come.

Agreed. The factor you don't tell us is the selling price of adverts and the costs of running the Tubes. When Dating sites move to a Free Model, don't think it can't happen, the number of advertisers and/or the price they can afford to pay will fall. Then what?

The value of traffic is determined by the value of it's spending and cost of getting the traffic.

As I said.. The industry is no longer about selling porn memberships. It's about generating traffic and selling advertising space. The reality though is that the online biz has really always been about traffic. It's just that because affiliates were getting paid a commission on paysite memberships that things weren't really black and white. But in effect, the porn membership companies were paying affiliates for advertising.. For their traffic... The smart guys figured out early that their business was about traffic generation, not about making pretty sites and thus they threw as much porn at the surfer as they could in order to generate that traffic.

Total rubbish. Traffic doesn't spend money to be traffic. Without sales there's no money. Traffic doesn't in itself generate money. Sales do that. If the only way you can get sales is to throw more and more traffic at it. You had best hope some of that traffic buy.

They gave the consumer as much of the product free to generate sales.

Seriously dude.. What products do google, facebook etc sell? None. They sell advertising space to those that have products to sell. I understand it's a difficult concept to grasp but surely you should be cluing in by now.

You are clearly not that clever. Google and FB do not give away the product they sell. In the same way online porn does. Google is a search engine, they don't sell search engines.

Facebook is a social network, they don't sell Social networks.

I'm sure you understand the concept. They give away one thing for free to sell another. The search engine or social is free, if you want a top spot or little ad, you pay.

Do web cams give away free 1-1 shows to get traffic?

Do Penis pills companies give away as many penis pills as they can to sell them?

Do sex toys companies give away all the vibrators to sell vibrators?

Now you give away free recorded porn to sell other products. Do you own the content you use as a lure. Do the dating sites, cams, sex toys, penis pills advertisers give you the free porn to get surfers to sell adverts?

If the answer is yes, then fine. You're running a legit operation. If you pirate or use free paysite content as an affiliate to sell advertising space. You had better pray those paysites stay in business. Or you will have to buy content to get costly traffic. Yes the content is why the traffic comes. If you can afford to buy it, you're fine. If you can't and it disappears. You will have to buy the King of online porn to get the queen, free traffic.

[Paul Markham]

The crazy thing is what people hold responsible. What of these did the online porn workers not have a big hand in?

Free porn.
Tubes.
Piracy.
Crap sites.
Scamming.
All of the above.

Which is why this is the only answer.

Online porn workers, hurt selling online porn.

[Viewfinder]

Financial crisis is the major reason. When credit was easy and available, people were still buying porn, despite tubes and torrents.

[Paul Markham]

Show me a free porn site like this http://t5.analteenangels.com/home/

Beautiful stuff. Very nicely shot and good looking girls, great quality samples. Not stuff shot on the cheap by poor shooters.

Are the girls from an English speaking country or not?

Would really bring more sales if there were more personality on top of a great scene. Porn buyers love to know who the girl is. Not needed for porn surfers, porn spenders like to think they know the girls.

Still very good stuff.

[Jack Sparrow]

If you think you know the answer already, why ask the question.

Paul, your trolling is boring.

[Paul Markham]

If you think you know the answer already, why ask the question.

Paul, your trolling is boring.

As I'm slowly winding down our business, it makes no difference to me if I know or not. It's whether you know and what you are going to do for a job in the future.

Today you sell ads on Tubes sites. If those Tube sites own the content they will be the last to be effected. If the content belongs to paysites, as the paysites go down their free content will drop off. It's a downward spiral.

For a little while, the surfers on the failing Tubes will move to those left. However as the free model bites into their business, the advertisers will be squeezed and less money will be around.

What happens then is yet to be decided.

Will free porn slim down to the new slimmer revenue. Will they disappear. Then will surfers flood back to buying or piracy. Even some piracy sites will suffer. Fewer advertisers.

The future is going to be fun. If you're just watching from the outside.

Traffic isn't King. Sales are and without sales, traffic isn't worth Jack Shit. With falling sales, traffic is worth less and less. Finding sections of the market not devastated by the free model, will work, until they get hit by the free model.

Unless Coca Cola decide to advertise on Pornhub, the future is unknown.

[Jack Sparrow]

If traffic isnt king, can you explain to me how free newspapers van survive?

Because i really thought they made their money from the ads in their FREE newspaper. Them being free makes a LOT of people reading them. Which gives the advertisers a LOT of exposure.

You keep repeating yourself. You keep misunderstanding the new economy. And i wonder if you even want to understand it at all.

Adapt, and you will see that revenue streams arent dying, they are simply moving to other areas.

Your unwillingness to see them or explore them is amazing.

They are right in front of you. But instead of adopting them, you keep complaining about past revenue streams that arent working anymore.

Is that working out for you? Did you make more money sitting their complaining?

[Fletch XXX]

If traffic isnt king, can you explain to me how free newspapers van survive?

yep, the ads.

[Nicky]

The record, It's broken.

[faxxaff]

Too many sharks and no more fish.

[Jack Sparrow]

yep, the ads.

Exactly. What i said.

But paul here doesnt seem to grasp how it works.

[Fletch XXX]

Exactly. What i said.

But paul here doesnt seem to grasp how it works.

arent newspapers like over 65% ads? LOL

[Jarmusch]

arent newspapers like over 65% ads? LOL

Yep, magazines too. Yet people pay to read them.

Go figure.

[SomeCreep]

Sube tites.

[jimmycooper]

Yep, magazines too. Yet people pay to read them.

Go figure.

Magazines usually try to stay below 50/50 ad-to-edit and newpapers shoot for 60/40, but usually end up at 65/35.

[jimmycooper]

OK anyone who thinks online is selling better than ever can go back to their Mum's basement and carry on with the drugs.

Free porn. Too much.

Tubes. Too much.

Piracy. Too much.

Crap sites. Too much.

Scammings. Too much.

All of the above.

Online porn itself hurt selling online porn.

1. Ignorance (It is impossible to anticipate everything, thereby leading to incomplete analysis)
2. Error (Incorrect analysis of the problem or following habits that worked in the past but may not apply to the current situation)
3. Immediate interest, which may override long-term interests
4. Basic values may require or prohibit certain actions even if the long-term result might be unfavorable (these long-term consequences may eventually cause changes in basic values)
5. Self-defeating prophecy (Fear of some consequence drives people to find solutions before the problem occurs, thus the non-occurrence of the problem is unanticipated.)

Big deal, though. It happens all the time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unintended_consequences

[Barry-xlovecam]

Why are these so hard to sell new today?

[cherrylula]

is this real?? geeeez

[Paul Markham]

arent newspapers like over 65% ads? LOL

Yes but you still are grasping the wrong straws.

People buy newspapers to read the news. The cost is carried by the advertisers who pay for the news to be gathered.

People buy porn to jerk off. The cost is carried by the buyers. Give the porn away for free, why buy? You can jerk off to the free.

If there was a person giving away The New York Times, without ads, in front of a news stand selling The New York Times. How do you think that would effect the news stand's revenue?

Compare like with like please.

1. Ignorance (No one thought giving the product away for free would devastate sales of the product.)
2. Error (When they did, they gave away more.)
3. Immediate interest, which may override long-term interests. (Welcome to the long term.)
4. Basic values may require or prohibit certain actions even if the long-term result might be unfavorable (these long-term consequences may eventually cause changes in basic values) Buyers no longer buying.
5. Self-defeating prophecy (Inability to predict the obvious consequences of bad decisions.) How many prophesied giving away porn for free would hurt selling porn?

Good post Jimmy.

[Paul Markham]

Too many sharks and no more fish.

Yes online porn has suffered with the amount of people sticking their noses in the trough. It shared the money in the industry, very thin. People were forced to go the cheapest route.

Investing in a great product, costs money and has to be done up front.

Investing in great sales people is expensive and has to be done up front.

Cheap product. Results in the bar is low for entry.

Cheap marketing. Results in the bar is low for entry.

Too many people squabbling over a very limited resource. Buyers.

[Jack Sparrow]

See paul. Its right in your face and you still dont see it.
I give up lecturing to you, you just dont wanna learn.

[Paul Markham]

Who does Free porn? The Online porn industry.
Who does Tubes? The Online porn industry.
Who does Piracy site Advertising? The Online porn industry. Well on most of the piracy sites.
Who does Crap sites? The Online porn industry.
Who does Scamming? The Online porn industry.
Who does All of the above? The Online porn industry.


There was only one correct answer.

I know thise, surprised so many chose the wrong answer. No one but.

The Online porn industry is to blame.

Thread closed.

[Jack Sparrow]

Paul markgam account closed.

[LeRoy]

Our Japanese niche program isnt hurting one bit! We are having record sales.

It's not price either take a look @ our join page on some of our paysites. We charge double or more.

You bitch a whine a lot Paul!

I've got you on ignore cuz all you do is babble this nonsense here all day long

[FlexxAeon]

You, because your posting has made industry productivity plummet

j/k

[96ukssob]

ALL ARE WRONG!

Faster internet killed the porn industry! without it, no one would wait 20 minutes for a tube video to partially stream

we only have the ISPs to blame

[PR_Glen]

Who does Free porn? The Online porn industry.
Who does Tubes? The Online porn industry.
Who does Piracy site Advertising? The Online porn industry. Well on most of the piracy sites.
Who does Crap sites? The Online porn industry.
Who does Scamming? The Online porn industry.
Who does All of the above? The Online porn industry.


There was only one correct answer.

I know thise, surprised so many chose the wrong answer. No one but.

The Online porn industry is to blame.

Thread closed.

[Tempest]

You are clearly not that clever. Google and FB do not give away the product they sell. In the same way online porn does. Google is a search engine, they don't sell search engines.

Facebook is a social network, they don't sell Social networks.

I'm sure you understand the concept. They give away one thing for free to sell another. The search engine or social is free, if you want a top spot or little ad, you pay.

You're not grasping a simple concept... Tube sites.. Free porn sites.. ARE NOT SELLING A PORN PRODUCT.. That's NOT their product.. 95% of the WMs out there do not own a paysite.. they do not sell a product.. They give away one thing to make money with something else.. They give away free porn in order to make advertising revenue.. It just so happens that, up until recently, the advertising revenue primarily came from the same product they were giving away.

[2intense]

Tubes. ..

[TheSquealer]

ALL ARE WRONG!

Faster internet killed the porn industry! without it, no one would wait 20 minutes for a tube video to partially stream

we only have the ISPs to blame

This guy will never really get it. Conversions were always destined to spiral downward as the trend of people coming online slows, as a once scarce product becomes less scarce, as more people are exposed to scams, as more people spend more time doing other things than porn (social networks, blogs etc), as more people get burned by the likes of mediarevenue, as more people become more educated on whats out there and shop around more and so on and so on and so on.


Pauls single greatest problem besides arrogance, stupidity and a severely retarded ability for cognitive reason, is that he sees things from the eyes of a content producer. He thinks all porn is bad and no one buys porn because there is too much free porn. It's a combination of a shitload of factors but he desperately needs to be able to blame his own failure on a single "bad", "unfair" factor that he can reason "caused" him to fail. In spite of all the shit he talks, his sites suck, his content is bland and even though he lectures day in and day out on conversions, traffic, joins etc... he's never had any of those things.

[Paul Markham]

ALL ARE WRONG!

Faster internet killed the porn industry! without it, no one would wait 20 minutes for a tube video to partially stream

we only have the ISPs to blame

Good point. The cost of BW crashed, speeds increased and with that we were really able to screw ourselves.

[Paul Markham]

You're not grasping a simple concept... Tube sites.. Free porn sites.. ARE NOT SELLING A PORN PRODUCT.. That's NOT their product.. 95% of the WMs out there do not own a paysite.. they do not sell a product.. They give away one thing to make money with something else.. They give away free porn in order to make advertising revenue.. It just so happens that, up until recently, the advertising revenue primarily came from the same product they were giving away.

Very good point. They don't give a fuck at the moment if paysites decline. The problem with your thinking is it's very short term, maybe that's how it is now. Make sure you can pay the bills this week and fuck the week after. Never used to be like that.

They are industry people though. So still industry people to blame.

The interesting thing for most will be, if paysites carry on falling. Will free content for people running Tubes will dry up. Piracy doesn't have a real problem. The big Tubes who could afford to but content, don't have a problem. They have all the content they need and can buy more from failing websites.

Will the advertisers pay more for advertising to pay for legit content on Tubes?

Now here's another problem. As the value of the free porn falls, how many sites will open Tubes turning their paysites into Tube?

People of my size don't really have enough.

Will couple of similar got together and pooled resources? Plus I'm sure they can rely on a few "users" to upload. So the growth in Tubes is an option. Same advertising revenue spread thinner.

Free doesn't creates buyers, it takes buyers from others. So more people competing for the same buyers traffic, not free loaders traffic. Only a minute % of those looking at Tubes buy.

Can dating and webcam support the costs of the Tubes with their own content?

Will the free model kick in further for dating and cam sites?

IF and it's a big if. The support for Tubes falls, will customers have to come back to buying? Or will the free model slim itself down to a slimmer model?

One thing is for sure, no one knows. And don't commit yourself to long term debts. That's the best long term thinking people in porn can do today. Clear the debts and save hard.

[Tempest]

Very good point. They don't give a fuck at the moment if paysites decline. The problem with your thinking is it's very short term, maybe that's how it is now. Make sure you can pay the bills this week and fuck the week after. Never used to be like that.

They are industry people though. So still industry people to blame.

The interesting thing for most will be, if paysites carry on falling. Will free content for people running Tubes will dry up. Piracy doesn't have a real problem. The big Tubes who could afford to but content, don't have a problem. They have all the content they need and can buy more from failing websites.

Will the advertisers pay more for advertising to pay for legit content on Tubes?

Now here's another problem. As the value of the free porn falls, how many sites will open Tubes turning their paysites into Tube?

People of my size don't really have enough.

Will couple of similar got together and pooled resources? Plus I'm sure they can rely on a few "users" to upload. So the growth in Tubes is an option. Same advertising revenue spread thinner.

Free doesn't creates buyers, it takes buyers from others. So more people competing for the same buyers traffic, not free loaders traffic. Only a minute % of those looking at Tubes buy.

Can dating and webcam support the costs of the Tubes with their own content?

Will the free model kick in further for dating and cam sites?

IF and it's a big if. The support for Tubes falls, will customers have to come back to buying? Or will the free model slim itself down to a slimmer model?

One thing is for sure, no one knows. And don't commit yourself to long term debts. That's the best long term thinking people in porn can do today. Clear the debts and save hard.

As long as they're making money, tubes can license/buy old content libraries.. they can produce their own porn for cheap in foreign countries.. As things continue and consolidate, a handful of companies will end up controlling the vast majority of the traffic... Like most other businesses, they will become "slow", revenues will go down etc. but they have a monopoly at that point and can charge a premium. They can, and do, have their own paysites that they can charge a premium for by promoting the higher quality etc.. They sell memberships on the tubes themselves for faster access and downloadable videos. There are lots of things they can and will do in order to make money from all that traffic they now control... Of course eventually that model will begin to change as smaller tubes will go under, be bought by the bigger guys etc and it will slowly begin to die just as the old model has. At that point there will either be something new that comes along, or the older model (in some alternate form) might rise again. It's the way of most markets/biz models.

[e-god]

Banks and their cc policy. A lot of declined signups..

[Jakez]

No "shitty economy" option? Jesus Christ...

Tubes indeed.
I speak with a lot of ppl about online porn and everyone always say: "I do not download porn anymore, nor buy it since I find all on tubes."

Hate it when people say this crap on here, do you think anyone you ask is going to say "oh yeah I pay for memberships to X and X site(s)!"? No, everyone knows tubes exist and the cool thing is to say "pay for porn? HA! its free just goto X.com!". But in the privacy of their home who knows if they really are paying or not?

[Jakez]

Who does Free porn? The Online porn industry.
Who does Tubes? The Online porn industry.
Who does Piracy site Advertising? The Online porn industry. Well on most of the piracy sites.
Who does Crap sites? The Online porn industry.
Who does Scamming? The Online porn industry.
Who does All of the above? The Online porn industry.

How are porn magazine sales doing in 2011? Oh, not good? Why is that? What? There's porn on a computer? I don't have to even goto the store?

You are mad at the internet Paul. Not "online porn". Blame computers, blame fast internet connections. Magazine sales would have plummeted whether you have to pay to watch porn online or not.

Beyond all of that, the title of your own damn thread is "What has hurt selling porn online the most?". And then you work your little way back to same old whining about how online porn is the problem, instead of focusing on what is wrong with online porn.

[alias]

repetitive