Encoding Video, Best Frame Rate, Dimensions, Bitrates, PLEASE HELP!
 

I'm encoding a shitload of avi (captured and cut in premiere with a huffyhuv codec) into web-ready video(using cleaner 5, till 6 is ready for pc), and i would like your opinions on the best trade off between frame rate, dimensions, and bitrates on dial up and broadband. i will be making wmvs, qt and rms, and im guessing i will do 3-4 sizes for each viewer. i might make downloadable divx and mpeg4 for qt streaming as well, need to look into that more.

I have done a lot of testing, and for dial ups i think it is a good tradeoff to have a lower framerate, around 10 maybe (so that the image quality doesnt completely suck) but i just wanted to get some input.

Your thoughts are most appreciated...

I usualy use 15 frames per sec. Make sure you use the lowest sound settings.

sounds like overkill to me. dialup streaming isn't worth it for the viewer, i don't think any surfers on dialup want to watch streams. That's why MPEGs are still the most popular movie format amongst surfers. They will take the time to download them rather than watch a shitty dialup stream.

i'd do a WMV version for broadband streaming, only 300kbps because anything faster and it won't work cuz most cable providers can't do consistent 500 or 700kbps throughput. I've tried watching 500kbps, i usually give up.

Do a 30fps mpeg or DivX for people to download, the good thing about mpegs is that if somebody has a fast connection they'll start playing in Media Player. Not sure how big the screen size should be on the mpegs, not too big because the files will be too big. Porn surfers aren't that hard to please.

i think WMV files are great, good enough for me.
Take a look at OxCash and NastyDollars sites, WMV and MPEG.
That's what I would do.

Why even bother with QT?

How long does it take to encode a 15 minute movie into a WMV or MPEG file? And once I have it in MPEG can i just use some software to convert it to other formats? Please don't tell me that I would have to re-encode from the source file for every format, that would be hell.

I know dick about video encoding but I need to know it since i think i'll be licensing some video soon. What format is a video imported in from a miniDV tape or i guess any format, DVD/VHS?
uncompressed avi? or can i go direct from the miniDV into WMV bypassing one step?

i think i might outsource this, seems like boring time consuming work, must be lots of goofballs on those movie forum sites who would do it for cheap.

thanks sassyass :)

If you want to outsource it let me know as i have lots of cpu cycles im wasting on distributed.net RC72 cracking :)

thanks for your reply mutt ... i want to offer qt and rm because i may produce a lease gallery with this video. i have seen the nastydollars stuff, its good... i just want to get a wide range of responses... i especially appreciate yours because your giving me a surfer point of view also :)

Encoding time will vary based on several things. whether or not you are cropping and resizing during the encode, or possibly applying filters. i would say that you should make all of your encodes from the source file, i wouldnt encode to mpeg, then re-encode to wmv. use the highest quality source for the best encoded file. A video stream is captured (im talking windows) into raw avi, but there is either a vfw (pre-win 2k, XP) lossless codec or another avi codec for 2k/XP (i forget the name). I personally capture and cut using huffyhuv codec. you can get capture cards that will capture directly into a compressed format, i have a pinnacle that captures into mpeg2 (dvd) but it is a horrendous pain in the ass. Outsourcing might be a good idea, this is most definitely boring and time consuming. i have over 40 hours to cut and encode, and i think i would rather be at the beach...

Thanks again for your help!

I always go from DV to Highest quality AVI. I use Cleaner to compress the final product it into what ever format I need.

Some tips that I'm sure you already know/use...

Make sure you stripe your tapes before you shoot. (record over the whole tape before you use it) Doing this puts a striaght timeline on the tape that will not be erased when you go out and shoot. (Make sure your camera will do this, some don't) That will make your batch capture easier. Also, when I am done editing a movie, I re-save the final cut back to a tape and save my batch capture list in a folder. I only have 120g drive for video storage and that gets filled up fast.

I would do only MPEG and Windows Media, Quicktime if you must.

For Windows Media, the microsoft tools are best, for soem reason I get much better quality then with other programs and it's faster. I use the windows media batch encoder and do only broadband versions (300 kbps 320x240 ). The performance on a 22 ghz pc is about 1 minute for each minute of video.

For quicktime, try Soreson Squeeze for the best quality video. But it's very slow at about 7 minutes for each minute of video.

Use moviemaker from microsoft ( the last beta version )
It works great and delivers good quality plus its free.

thanks for comments everyone, please keep em coming!

i am finding better wmv results in wme as opposed to cleaner, but how in the fuck can i batch multiple files in the fucker? I refuse to encode one clip at a time, i have thousands of clips to encode ...

now this is strange also. wme7.1 is the latest stable release, will surfers have to update if i use wme9 (beta)? or will that stream in any wmplayer?

thanks again everyone

the answer is in VideoJ's post

whoaaaaaaaa..........those two chicks in the sample video on Spermberg are soooooooooooooooooooooo cute.

Definitely not Americans, Czech girls maybe Hungarian. I bet i can find photos of both of them on 1 by day.com.

yes, when encoding, keep in mind, "garbage in, garbage out". *always* encode from the the highest quality source available. if you're using cleaner, you can batch encode like crazy. yes, encoding takes a long time... you should have at least one dedicated machine if you are encoding large amounts of video. you can batch and go out/go to sleep.

sorenson rocks if you're encoding to quicktime. if you are doing mpeg1, be sure to get mpeg charger (a plugin for cleaner 5) - it does variable bit-rate mpeg1 encoding, giving you better quality and smaller files sizes than you'll get when just using cleaner 5.

Quiet or Sassyass, any of you know how to use the watermark function in Cleaner?
I memorized the pdf tutorial that comes with it, made a PICT file in photoshop according to the rules specified, but it still does not show in my movies (when using dynamic preview).

Any help greatly appreciated:helpme

Shot in Budapest Mutt. i got like 40 hours of these babes to sift thru...

windows media batch encoder, hmm lemme go look for that. i dont see any batch settings in the microsoft guis or any of the freeware guis to the command line encoder for wmv8

i will check out sorensen and charger, many thanks!

ok i found windows media batch encoder in japanese, and i found the mocrosoft page where it says that the wme8 allows for batching, but its only a command line utility... ive downloaded several guis for it but still lost for how to run a batch ...

help a brotha out!

by the way, in my earlier posts i had a typo ... huffyhuv=huffyYUV

Windows media encoder 8 is the absolte fastest way to batch encode! There's a help file for you to learn how to use it. I think you can download it off of Micro$ofts website.

I use www.tmgenc.net for MPEG-1 and MPEG-2 encoding.

A 320x240 MPEG-1 video encodes in roughly real-time on a 1.2 duron running 98SE...

thanks wolf, i found these instructions for the command prompt here:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/de...mencodutil.asp

I guess ill do it from a command prompt. why these jackasses would make the version 8 codecs without a gui is beyond me, but fuck it.

I just toss a title that streches the length of the movie in Premiere or DVstorm edit. I have never used the watermark in Cleaner. I would suggest that you try it on a 30 sec clip and play it on you media play to make sure that your dynamic viewer is showing everything. *shrug*
It's kind of silly, All you really need to do this is XP and moviemaker. It will do everything you need to cut up porn clips. Mind you you have almost no control, but I guess if I was only shooting porn, thats the way I would go. Our customers don't seem to care if we have cool effects in our clips......

If you need any help with this stuff give me a shout.

ICQ 168463062

they do
for almost a year now
windows media 7 resource kit

might not be available for download now as they have moved on to the next version wich encodes wm9 codec
problem is it installs the wm9 player on your system as well
search for "windows media 7 resource kit"

wmrk7_full.exe

that is the file you want
it's 25 megs

DIVX-DIGEST.COM/SOFTWARE

A ton of them .. I get the 'compressed audio stream in no a valid input' on all my tries though :/

http://www.xxxwebhosting.com/streaminghosting.htm


ICQ me and I'll get you into a good deal for a secure WMS
setup. Check the link above, I think you will find the
quality of the stream quite good.

It's locked down and protected by referrer, we can also
throttle down to referrer. And you don't need a dedicated
to "intelligently stream".

hmmmmmm........... since i don't even have a video capture card on my computer yet this is premature but it would be good information to know.

Let's say I have DVD's, first I want to get it into my computer, from what you guys say the best thing is to not encode it into some other format as i'm importing it. So I'm importing this 90 minute long DVD movie as an uncompressed AVI.

I think i'm already going to be in trouble because my hard drive is only 30 something gigs and probably only 20 are available.
How much space does an uncompressed AVI file eat up per minute of video?

Ok once i have this huge ass uncompressed AVI on my hard drive what's the next steps if I want a WMV version, an MPEG version, a DIVX version and a QT version. I don't need to edit it so I don't need Premiere/Final Cut editing software.
I'm presuming Cleaner is the software that can encode into these
formats. Let's say I do the WMV version first using Windows Media tools because these guys say the results are better with it.

Now what do i do? Can I take that newly created WMV file and convert that file into the other formats from it? Or will that produce shitty MPEGs, MOVs and DIVX's? Garbage in Garbage out i guess.
I'm just trying to cut down on the time and still get decent looking movies.

Do you guys save the uncompressed AVI source files? What if the movie is too big for one CD, can I save it on two or three CD's? Or do I have to buy some storage device that holds more?

I doubt i will do this myself but it's good to know how it's done anyway so i can ask the right questions.

Mutt, it used to be a 3 step process to do all of that but now you can get one program. If I were you I would go to http://www.zdnet.com and look around for dvd ripping and copying utilities.

Back in the olden days you used to have to use Smart Ripper to rip the DVD then flask MPG to encode into AVI then edit and encode to your file format of choice.

Try to find one of the programs that does all that by itself.

what does this mean exactly? throttle down by referrer? you mean limit each user/IP to a certain amount of usage?

and what does 'intelligently stream' mean and why don't you need a dedicated server? Are you talking about real streaming usng mss:// protocol or pseudo streaming where you just put the WMV file on a web server? Lotta companies do that, Nasty Dollars and OxCash sites don't use media servers. I know OxCash did at one time, i always wondered why they stopped.
As far as i know a Windows Media server is just a WindowsNT box, so it's no more expensive than any dedicated server a host would set you up on. You'd just need an admin who understood
how to use Microsoft Media services.

So your hosting company has shared Windows Media servers?

also tell me how many concurrent streams is one WM server capable of streaming? in the event you need two or three machines, do you have to upload the same movie to the other machines or is there some kind of setup where you can store the actual movie files on some other machine and the streaming machines all 'feed off' those movie storage machines?

thanks

thanks pornwolf. i've never done anything with movies.

here's the other question - with miniDV format, is there a miniDV player that's cheaper than a camera, cuz i'm not going to be shooting anything, but i will be being sent miniDVs.
No point in buying a camera if a simple player is cheaper.

About 3.5Mb per second. You will need a shitload of space.

Always create the formats from the best source you have available. You will get better file quality and better file compression. The cleaner the source file the better your results will be.

yup. i have stacks of large capacity firewire drives. 50 hours of uncompressed digital video, all of it backed up - takes up a little space lol.

Actually, players aren't cheaper! Find a cheap camera on amazon. Here's a player so you can see what I mean,

Click herre

raw avi from minidv is like 12gigs per hour
and your stand alone players are more expensive but they are also much more durable and higher quality mechanisms than what you find in your average consumer minidv camera.

Thanks BV, i found wmrk7_full.exe, and im looking at it now. i see a batch feature but only allowing me to choose the default settings. ill look through it, but if you happen to know it will NOT let me use custom settings, lemme know, and ill just go with the command prompt
---------------------------
Naughty, ive tried all of those guis and cant find any batch features (doesnt mean that there isnt a batch on one of them, i just havent found any :)
--------------------------
reliable, i think i will need several dedicated servers for this. there is going to be an asswad of transfer ... im not sure if i need to lock the files, i will be offering downloadable divxs or mpegs anyways ... but the intelligent stream would make encoding easier (just need to encode once, right?)... as of now im planning to stream from apache/linux, not wms ... is that retarded? same with rm files...
--------------------------
Mutt, you wouldnt capture a dvd into raw avi, you "rip" the .vob files (dvd is much more compressed than raw avi, dvd is mpeg2) since the most a dvd can hold is 4.7 GB, a 30 GB drive should be fine.

Im looking forward to the answers about the windows media server stuff you were asking about :)

p.s., find a friend with a mini dv cam. just make sure its not a complete piece of shit, they will eat tapes. i always ff and rw tapes before capture or recording.
--------------------------

anyone have any comments on framerates, dimensions, bitrates?

Thanks!

you're right, I did not either:mad:

I might search for that file that has one with the default settings, it might as well work.

here it is:

http://www.kurian.pl/media/wmrk7_full.exe

Mikey, Windows media encoding utility 8 doesn't include WM9 anything. It's safe. Only the Windows Media Encoder does. Just make sure you are using the command line proggie and not the pretty windows one and you will be ok.

By referrer means that you can have restrict access to the
video streams based upon the incoming URL. e.g

http://www.paysite1.com/members/index.htm
http://www.paysite2.com/members/index.htm
http://www.paysite3.com/members/index.htm

So we can set each one of those incoming URL's to
a specified pipe size, say 1 Mb or 512k.

I like to call it intelligent streaming and dumb streaming. Correct
we are streaming securely from the mms protocol. Its faster
and better with more features.

You can stream Windows Media Files from any Dedicated but
you will need additional programs that will lock it down. Otherwise everyone will easily hotlink the stream. That's
what we have and also some more features that adult webmasters have requested of me.

We currently manage over 1400 servers, most of them dedicated. Locking down WMS was something that was
requested of us often. The only thing stuff out there requires a dedicated box to run.


The amount of concurrent streams would only be limited by
hardware, deal, and your encoding that you did. For example
in my example page I encoded that file for 4 rates, highest I
believe is at 700k. So if 5 users pull it down off a cable connection
at its best rate.. its 4x700k worth of pipe.

Yes we have designed it for one central server for file storage.

Hit me up on ICQ with any questions if you like.

im gonna make a batch file now, sounds like fun anyways to get away from a gui :)

Thanks a lot...

Reliable... i thought you were out west. when did you move to south fla?

Pornwolf ... any idea what im doing wrong here? ... here is what im entering at the prompt:

wm8eutil ?input E:\RTE ?output C:\Documents and Settings\Mikey\Desktop\encodes\56k ?allstats ?a_setting 8_11_1 -author TeenieMan.com -copyright TeenieMan.com -description TeenieMan.com -outputstring FROMRTE -rating XXX -title TeenieMan.com ?v_bitrate 22000 ?v_buffer 5000 ?v_codec WMV8 ?v_framerate 12 ?v_height 180 ?v_keydist 12 -v_mode 1 -v_preproc 0 ?v_quality 80 -v_width 144

and i keep getting the error: Invalid argument u^input (with the "^" on top of the"u")

Thanks mucho if you see anything, ive triplechecked and am baffled...

Mikey

Hi Mikey.
Been here now for 5 months, got tired of shoveling snow for
the past 20 years. This place rules.

Our engineer did a batch encoder Gui that works with profiles,
were you guys needing that?

If so drop me a email and I'll see if I can get it for you.

From looking at what you are doing I'm guessing you are trying to encode everything in the RTE file on drive E.

Normally I transfer whatever files need to be encoded into the same directory as WM8Eutil.exe. That's not necassary but that just makes it easier for me. I imagine that is part of your problem. It doesn't seem to be able to access your input folder. That's the type of little problem that can make a night too long and suck royally.

Contact me on ICQ 14675429 5

welcome to florida reliable, im in west palm if you want to swig a beer sometime...

wolf, ill try moving the files tomorrow, gonna be tough though, e drive is 160 gig, boot is 60

DOH!

Thanks!
Mikey

Thanks for the file.

You can also move you WME8util file to your E:/ drive, as long as the files are in the same directory as that file :2 cents:

############################

C:\Documents and Settings\Mikey>cd E:\RTE

C:\Documents and Settings\Mikey>

############################

FUCK! it wont let me even go to another HD (i copied wmeutil to E:RTE)

Well that sucks. Have you ever ran a batch NOT on the boot disk Wolf?

Thanks for what file?

here it is:

http://www.kurian.pl/media/wmrk7_full.exe


Rings a bell?

oh yeah :)

sorry im going nuts trying to get this command prompt to work... ive tried moving the files into the directory of the wmeutil.exe, still no dice.

:ak47: video editing

http://www.mrbill.com/MBWalk.gif

man that guy creeps me out.

Fuck it man, it looks like you need cleaner unless you can change directory in the C prompt. Try cd /E, that's a Unix command but it might work. If not, cleaner is easy but you really won't be abble to use your comp much for the next 30 hours with all of that encoding.

Just drag and drop all of your files into the batch window in Cleaner. It really is just that simple. Then right click on the first one and click advanced and play with your settings. When you are finished you should save that setting. Then Shift+click on the last one so you select all and right click again and select the saved setting. All of them will say ready. Then hit start. You are done, go get some pussy or somehing cause you have a while to wait... especially with all the vids on an external drive! I hope it's a 7200 rpm firewire drive!

You might want to take one file and play with the encoding settings before you load all of them into the batch window. This way you can get the settings correct faster and first.

Thanks Wolf,

I am going in cleaner now (im pretty familiar with it) ... ive tried every GUI for wm8, and ive tried everything under the sun with the command line. honestly, i care about the quality, but its only going to be so good for dialup. i think i got a pretty good tweak in cleaner, i prefer a lower framerate and cleaner image... fuck it. if i go insane nothing will ever get encoded.

I appreciate everyones help on this thread, and if there is anything i can do to reciprocate, never hesistate to ask! I will be launching a private affiliate program once the site is ready (i dont want overexposure, just a handful of honest webmasters i can give exclusive vid/pic content to, i have asswads of it) - so if anyone of you who offered your help is interested, just send me an email (see sig below)

thanks again!