The #1 Job of Affiliate Managers is to RAPE YOU - discuss
 

So we know that's not good. What can you do?

Tips for webmasters, share the love people to AFFILIATES especially:

Hide your referral links (double is best)

and keep hiding....

Share the love those still able to...

No links here, just trying to help people out :thumbsup

they just want to be as good as you ...

Teencat, be happy with your $80 per day and fuck off out of my thread, thank you.

i wish ... and my first bump for you :)

I don't care about bumps, I care about substance. You never offer that.

Basic Affiliates will be able to survive a lot longer if they follow some rules.

ALWAYS hide your affiliate links, these AFFILIATE MANAGERS are paid to analyse your traffic and ROB YOU. Work it out yourself if you don't believe me.

Funny, one of my affiliate managers analysed my traffic and gave me a raise on my payout percentage. I think he is an exception to the rule though. Some just want your traffic to keep their numbers up so they won'y get fired for non-productivity since they camp out here all day instead of actually working.:2 cents:

That is good for the right reasons.

Most of their jobs depend on working out how their top 20 affiliates get their money, so they can copy it, and save themselves the trouble of figuring it out themselves.

It's Pareto's law, and one that fucks up unsuspecting affiliates. :mad: Boo I say.

spot on there

Of course the affiliate manager will do a monthly check of incoming traffic, analyze and see from where the largest chunk of traffic is coming from and how it's converting. That's just normal business sense. If the program can find out you are getting your traffic from a paid advertising spot, which they themselves can buy at a much lower cost than PPS/rev share with you - any dummy would do that!

The affiliate model exists paartly to expand onto and into sites which other people build and gain traffic/search ratings on. Without the affiliate model maybe ones program would never be listed on that specific site. So a program owner is ok with giving away a few images and movie clips, since it will render a number of signups and spark an interest. If it was only my own program site, hardly anyone would know about it, but with a lot of links, movie clips and images spread all over the place, brand awereness starts to spread among the surfers. And for someone to promote my site like that, I would gladly share 50% of revenue, because I basically don't have to do any work, it's just added revenue coming in without my own involvement.

But if a certain site has paid advertising spots, anyone could buy these. Then it makes no sense to pay someone 50% of revenue for them to use my banner, to send to my tour and then more or less make a risk free profit there in between. So any sound, normal program, should of course look at and try to figure out where traffic is coming from and if the source is publicly available then try to snag it/bid for it/outbid others for it.

Just look at Godaddy for example. They explicitly prohibits their affiliates to bid on Adwords like "Godaddy" and other keywords which Godaddy themselves are bidding on, becuase they don't want you to raise the click cost and to gain mnoney from their brand recognition.

You have mentioned here before that you do good from buying ads or traffic from different sources, and have mentioned Juicy Ads as one of those. That's an easy way of making a good cut if you have a tight campaign and some good sponsors to convert for you. But no one does this for the heck of it. If the sponsor can figure it out, then they might just as well do it themselves and increase their own profits instead of sharing the wealth.

Wouldn't you?

I never talk to my affiliate reps/managers. Am I safe?

looking at paid spots is one thing, many do more than that though and outright try to copy the site with a similar domain and beat you out in seo. its all fair except for the fact that if not for the affiliate, they wouldn't a clue.

Of course. Raise your margins, do away with the people bringing in margins you may never have thought of....

Admittedly there is a lot of trial and error built into the system for the normal affiliate. That is why the payout per signup has to be a significant number, say $30 PPS or 50% rev share. because there goes an aweful lot of work, trial and error into figuring out, measuring and testing what works for the affiliate. A program would have to have a huge staff in place to do all that testing themselves and that at a fixed cost (salaries, offices etc.) without knowing if they will make their money back on that investment.

Rather pay someone upon success. "I pay you $30 if you bring me a customer, regardless of how much or little time and effort you spend on getting me that customer". Then one can look at those affiliates who are successful, let's assume the Pareto Principle of 80/20 applies, and then any normal program would keep an extra eye out for the top 20%. Both for fraud detection but also as a way to teach "my own people" on how to compete, how to get traffic and how to make the so important sale.

If that is shady or un-honest, I haven't really made up my mind about. For the program owner's view it's of course just a business, and as such a correct move. However, if it get's known that you will eventually screw your affiliates over, you might find yourself in a tough situation recruiting new ones one day. So for a big reputable company, there's more at stake to do this, but I mean both AFF and AWE has done moves which has badly effected the top affiliates, so it happens on all levels I guess.

Everyone copies in some form or another. If you do you SEO correctly, then you become the target. I get that they try to find ways of reducing overhead expenses. Don't we all? If you work your paid sources correctly its hard to be outbid.

No. They analyse your traffic stats from the traffic you send them.

nice to see someone who care, bump for you man! :thumbsup

If they could copy what their whales are doing they wouldnt be reps. And if the rep is copying what the whale is doing for the program they work for they are idiots.

Do you really think it's that prevalent? I've worked with a handful of programs over the years and none of them operated that way.

I've had a few discussions over in house traffic generation vs affiliate model, and I think you need to have a mix of both- but when you break it down- at least in my opinion- I'd rather pay affiliates commissions all day long than take on full time employees trying to decode an affilaite's game and try to mimic it.

The way I see it, your BEST webmasters don't work for companies- they work for themselves, so if you're hiring someone to generate inhouse traffic to mimic affiliate methods and you're paying out not based on commission you're already not working with the sharpest knife.

If a company is writing checks they can afford to cash, keeping payouts within the limits of their own profitability, it seems more cost effective to focus on the affiliate model, IMO. Its running leaner. If we;re talking about a company that may already have large overhead and the weight of FT dedicated employees that need to be refocussed I guess maybe in that situation it might be better to focus them on inhouse traffic gen projects than to lay them off. I do see what you guys are getting at, that a company could save money if they efficiently and effectively duplicated a successful affilate's methods, but there's alot involved in doing that as an employer, you're putting out money w/o a promised return, there's no guarantee of success. You use the right tool for the job, and I still feel the affiliate model is just that. :2 cents:

it is hard, there is nothing like copyright for your onilne ideas, so if someone stole something from you, just go over it, nothing lasts forever and what is working now may not be working tomorrow, just dont feed them with new ideas :winkwink: if you cant make money on your idea before someone stole it from you, you are doing something wrong :winkwink:

LOL, this is what I was trying to say but in alot fewer words. :thumbsup

Well, of course they're going to do that. That's just common sense.

If you don't like it, why not start your own program? Then you can analyze everyone else's traffic and steal their marketing ideas. :)

:1orglaugh exactly!

that is fucked up. fuckers are hired to help affiliates not rape them? id advise to change sponsors if you suspect this behavior from their reps.

you can't hide where you get your traffic. there are way too many tools out there and ways to find out. the best and most elite AMs are the ones who are also affiliates. you can't fuck them because they know your game just as good as you do.

Wrong.

And for those who think otherwise about their "new best buddies" >> :1orglaugh

Stolen landers.

Yes.

Every affiliate manager is hired to work out how to get traffic free - they take all your cunningstunt ideas, and then use them themselves if they can. I would too.

It's naive to think otherwise.

I'm getting so fucked off with this game it's beyond belief.

though your theory of how it works is correct... its not what they ALL do. Sure some programs DO do this... but i wouldnt go as far as saying its the only job of an aff manager.

Its IS a good idea to do this with your traffic, I will not deny that.

Agreed there. All the good ones I know also are pretty decent affiliates as well. I can't stand talking to an AM who doesn't know shit.


... not to toot my own horn or anything, but I'm not specifically an affiliate rep anymore :winkwink:

You rarely see a rich designer. Stick with your little image manipulation, you should always be good for $50K per year that way if you're lucky.

Personally, I shoot higher.

"Some programs" - come on mate, every fucking program.

Affiliates are constantly knocked from every angle, as soon as you get successful at it, sponsors start fucking you as well.

I'm getting sick of the battle.

stop crying finaly :)

i mean, think effective, fuck the problems, make money. you cant stole from idiot, be proud that someone needs to stole from you, move on! :thumbsup

How about giving us a chance to prove you wrong? :winkwink:

I don't think the affiliate managers are hired to do that. As an affiliate you should always cover your tracks on traffic sources. An affiliate manager might try to benefit himself and steal traffic sources for his own private use. This has happened quite often in our industry, and on the mainstream side.

In the end, affiliate managers work on commission. If they are any good, they would rather develop relationships with their top affiliates so the residual referrals keep coming in.

Sharky, you always talk far too much sense. Can you quit it already :)

But seriously, most of them are going to fuck you up sooner rather than later.

Whats the point in raping an affiliate?

I'll humbly ask the affiliate to send me more traffic. Or place a banner on their site. This is sales 101.

We're salesmen. We sell.

I've always believed in helping affiliates make sales. In fact I'm helping people on ICQ this moment.

See no ref sigg for more info :)

I'd agree with this. Most AM's are already well aware of current traffic trends and things of that nature. Otherwise they probably have no business being in the game to begin with.

Also, it is fairly easy to hide your referrals and whatnot, there are plenty of great software solutions available that will do the job for you, for example: http://tracking202.com/about - mainly used in mainstream but you get the idea.

Furthermore, are there ever any threads on gfy about positive affiliate manager experiences? :1orglaugh I'd like to think most managers out there develop solid relationships with their affiliates and the discussion of traffic sources never even comes up. It's more of a "hey this landing page isn't converting as well as it was last month, could you let me know the top 5 landing pages available right now instead?" Or "Hey I would really appreciate a custom 284x68 with this, this, and this incorporated, think you can take care of that for me?"

If the affiliate manager has big tits then she is welcome !

That is probably true for search engine work.

For guys like me who created freesites and branded them over the years...it doesn't apply. There's really nothing to analyze in my case. heh-heh
People come to my tgp. I put up a hosted gallery. Sales are made.

Why is it that people think Im "just a designer" even after I repeat myself endlessly that Im much more than that. I just offer that service to the public.

Ive been an affiliate... and affiliate manager. Ive looked over my own and numerous other affiliates over the time. Personally I never stole anyone's source. I didnt mimic anyone. At most I got inspiration with techniques on how to convert a surfer.

Im not saying this backhanded tactic isnt going on out there. Im just saying... your accusation is a little broad although your claim has solidity.

Thanks for the tips on where I should be aiming with my business though :thumbsup


shit... is sharky "just a designer"?

ok, try to hide where you get your traffic, give me the domain name and i'll show everyone here where and how you got your traffic.

:thumbsup

I want to shoot a caribou... teach me!

Very true. And it's one of the reasons I have shelved over 200 sites (essentially doorway sites) the last year or so, and purely concentrating on a couple of big ones. I couldn't give a monkey's if the affiliate managers see where the traffic is coming from, I tell them, and try and work together.

My thread was mainly directed at traffic buying and my experiences over the last few months in experimenting with that. If you don't hide your links, within a week typically you will see your sponsor buying ads in the same slots, where previously they were nowhere.

I'll stop with the whining now I'm sober :1orglaugh

well this does make perfect sense. I also thought youw ere talkign about all sources, but yea... especially with buying ad spots or PPC even... you need to mask that shit. regardless of affiliate managers.

I'd be interested to know if you had any luck with buying traffic. I've tried that a few times just to see what would happen after listening to all the hype.

I KNOW what buying a text link on a targeted site can do. But actually buying "traffic" with no real way to know what the heck it is...I never made a dime that way. It was always lose/lose for me.

precision traffic > random traffic

FTW

once again, you can't do that. it's impossible. for one, if i was a program and you hide where the traffic came from i will suspend your account. too many ways to cheat on blind.

secondly, all you need is a domain name and you can find anything you want from a few very handy tools which i won't be sharing.

seriously? are the people here on gfy this novice?

notice... you keep your tools a secret...

why... because its not a well known tactic...



hrmmmmm...

The thing is, while the practices Cunningstunt outlined have been going on for years it seems like things have "ratcheted up" over the past 1 1/2 - 2 years. Bad economy? New CC regs? No more x-sells/cross-sells? Whatever, it does seem like programs are out to "steal" affiliates mojo in a super-charged way these days. I can see how you would get sick of "the battle" Stunt.

And those who say - not me, but others - "well, start your own damn program and do the same..." aren't taking into consideration what goes into starting (and running) an AP, not to mention that "joining the thieves" just increases the downward spiral for the Industry as a whole. Shit, don't you think if super-affiliates like Mr. Stunt wanted this type of business model he would've done so long, long ago?

No, best advice mate: save your $, invest in mainstream, get out of adult ASAP. Live a happier life. :)