If we ship all of the illegals back to where they came from....
 

What effect would this have on all of our produce in the United States?
How much would the price of lettuce, oranges, avocados, tomatoes, etc. go up?

Let's face it, when people talk about illegals, they are 99% of the time talking about Mexicans...they aren't talking about Russian illegals, Ethiopian illegals or even Haitian illegals...and the Mexicans harvest most of this country's produce.

So, let's say we get rid of these mexicans and hire "real Americans"....woudl they work for what these guys do? No way in hell. So, let's say that makes labor go up 2 or 3 times (probably even more, since now the employers would have to pay benefits, fight unions, etc.) Would you be willing to pay 2 to 3 times the price for all of your produce if it means getting rid of the illegals?

Remember, it's not just the illegals that are breaking the laws, but also those who employ them. These employers get these people to work for waaaay under federal minimum wage. They don't have to pay benefits, they don't take out taxes (so THEY are the ones not really paying into the system either). They can also work them for as many hours as they want because let's face it, illegals aren't going to say anything to fuck up their income.

Should those who employ the illegals be forced out of business (either by fines, jail time or forced to employ their workers legally and driving up costs) and if so, does that mean it won't be a problem when there is a lack of produce in stores?

I see a lot of people saying "ship them back" but what about these other areas? What can be done to fix a situation like lettuce now costing $5 a head rather than $1 (which will cause a ripple effect of higher prices in restaurants, school lunches costing more, etc.)?

Maybe this will return us back to a time when we all had to have our own gardens....no more relying on commercial farmers and being self sufficient...but you might have to have more kids because you can't drive to the nearest plant nursery and grab a couple Hispanics carrying shovels ;-)

People will do the work, we have people who would do it.

You or I wouldn't.

I don't know many who would do it for such low wages, but my solution would be to use able-bodied people who are getting government assistance and prisoners or other wards of the state (teens who are incarcerated in juvenile rehab facilities) and maybe even illegals who want a chance to become legal citizens.

good luck to the "Americans" if they actually start shipping out illegals...
USA is pretty much going downhill anyway

A while back I saw an article on CNN (I think) where they basically said that if farmers tripled wages (so it would be a reasonable wage) it would cost the average household in America about $50 more per year. Obviously if you eat fresh vegetables every day it could cost you more, but most people don't eat that much.

I would love to find that article. I'm legitimately interested in the financial impact of something like this. Whether it is something that would devastate or just cause a minor bump in costs.

I'll look around and see if I can find it. It was a while back though so I'm not sure I will be able to.

Here is an article that says if they raised the minimum wage 50cents per hour or 12% and 100% of those costs were passed on to the consumer it would increase food prices by less than 1% at store and right around 1% at restaurants.

This isn't it, but it is another one

http://www.therationalradical.com/do...rm_workers.htm

This one gives a few examples of how wage increases would effect food costs.

I say force the employers to pay minimum wage and force them to pay a fair wage to trade workers. Then see how many illegals have jobs after that.

that can't be done, so don't think about it, it's over

This is part of the problem...Arizona wants to be able to detain people and ask for their papers, etc. Ok, that's fine...but why don't they spend that money on going after businesses who exploit the illegals? They seem to be spending more time and money on going after the illegals. If they close down the businesses that employ illegals, then there is nowhere for the illegals to work and they have to go elsewhere...

There is too much corruption going on. I think this is the root of our economic woes right now.

we'd have nobody to do the jobs we don't want to do.

You'd only be able to force people into replacing the low paid workers by knocking welfare payments for bone-idles on the head.

If the old USSR could build a wall around the USSR to keep people in, the USA could build a wall to keep people out. They could also deny housing, medical and education to all illegals. If the political will of leaders was there.

So why don't they?

Maybe those at the top benefit from having illegals in the country and keeping down wages and providing cheap labor.

If the US leaders wanted illegals out they could achieve it or vastly change the the ease it is to get in.

how about kids doing 'free' collage?

Ask the Native Americans (Old skool red indians). They would probably want to fuck the lot of you guys out of their country for starters.

HAH! I was going to say pretty much the same thing...they would be the only ones left! :1orglaugh

Yes, the typical American hypocrisy makes me want to puke.

Farmers have very easy and very fast paths to get immigrant workers in, working way below min wage, no insurance etc... for harvest times. ZERO excuses for a farm to hire illegals...

Kicking the illegals out of the Country would free up hundreds of millions of dollars instantly! In local cities, schools, states, hospitals, emergency services, etc.. To such an extreme, the States could pay the difference of the American workers on the farms or doing jobs they don't like, and still make a profit.

We invaded them and over took the land... it's called war. If Illegals, lets say from Mexico, wish to invade us and attempt to take over land, then it's not illegal immigration anymore - it's war. Exactly what we did to the Indians, we went to war and took the damn lands!

They did the work when times were tough, and were happy to do it for very little money, until everyone got welfare and foodstamps, now no Americans have motivation to do it. If your kids are hungry, you are hungry, you don't have a TV/Internet/Computer/Xbox/Cable to eat up all your time, you will work to pay for things you need like shelter & food. If someone is handing you those things for free, you have no motivation.

And from your arguement you sound pro-illegal, which is fine, but you are basically advocating slave labor, how is that ok? Ship them back and arrest & fine employees who hire them. That is the only solution, hit em on both ends and secure the border and make slave labor illegal.

Prices would rise but then, so would wages.

You could pay 15$ an hour and it would only raise the cost of produce pennies.

sadly, white americans won't pick artichokes.

Theres many aspects, many forget the shitloads of money illegals pay in taxes that they dont recieve back in social benefits, thus supporting our lifestyles

The illegal immigrant business isn't a profit business in America... all the fed tax payments and sales taxes, don't cover the cost of the illegal children in our schools, let alone the rest of the costs.

look up 'operation wetback'

Maybe if we got rid of the illegals and reduced welfare payouts to those who actually needed it, we could reduce unemployment... :o

I mean, personally, if I had no job or marketable talents--and no way to abuse the system--I'd probably take a job picking lettuce or whatever so that I could live. Just saying.

i did its a donkey standing under a waterfall. :helpme :1orglaugh

No, I'm not necessarily pro-illegal. I do believe we should make it easier for those who want to immigrate and come here and work. I would love to swap out one hard working Mexican/Ethiopian/Haitian/German, etc. immigrant with one lazy fucker who was born here and basically lucked out by geography.

I'm about raising discussions on economic impact, both positive and negative. Like how much of our economy depends on illegal labor? I feel it would be easier and less expensive to focus on going after businesses who employ illegals than going after each individual illegal. If we cut off the money supply (businesses who employ them), then it's makes it less viable for them to come here.

When I worked in the restaurant business here in Nevada, I worked with a lot of hard working hispanics who were working their asses off to get their citizenships. They did everything by the law with their green cards, etc. and they found constant roadblocks and these were people who were "doing the right thing". They paid taxes, they went through the process and these guys were some of the hardest workers I'd ever seen and to this day, have seldomly seen anyone, white, black, mexican, philippino, etc. who worked as hard. I would love to give those guys citizenship and kick out the lazy motherfuckers who sit on their asses all day bitching and moaning and only through the sheer luck of where they were born, get to suck off the government teat.

I hereby propose the Great USA Swap Program. Take some backwoods hillbilly who does nothing to further our society than date rape and animal sexing and ship them to Mexico in exchange for Jose who will come here and bring a strong work ethic, a little color and a sense of pride shown through actual work.

I think that would work as well. The government will pay for your college, but here is what you can do to earn it: work in the fields, help a local farm community, etc.

I grew up on a farm and I was the slave labor and while I used to bitch and moan about days that started at 4am and ended about 10pm while still carrying a full load in school, it gave me a strong work ethic and a sense of pride in my work. I had responsibilities ("If the horses, sheep, etc. don't get fed, neither do you." "The cows don't give a shit that it's Christmas morning, they are still hungry"). It's tough work and I firmly believe 95% of Americans couldn't handle it for more than a couple weeks.

It's easy to blame illegal labor on all of our economic woes, when we could also see that there is a serious lack of pride in one's work. You only have to go as far as the nearest retail check out line or fast food joint to see this in action...but that's a discussion for another thread ;-)

Actually, they are getting their revenge by opening casinos and taking our money little by little ;-)