Spammers must die
 

I watched my little 12 year old sister use a AOL public chat room and seen no less then 50 instant message spams/chat room links within 30. minutes. No fucking wonder they hate us. We have adult webmasters with programs made to spam public chats exposing youth which probably make up 80% of the AOL chatroom people.

:BangBang:

It is fucking sad, if anyone reading this uses the spam methond to trick kids with dialers etc. You deserve to sit in fucking jail. It gives all of us trying to keep it honest and within a adult ballpark a bad name.

My daughter's first experience on AIM was a horror of adults trying to solicit a 14 year old girl. It really does both me as a parent. I took the time to explain it to her and she learned but it is one reason why this industry is under such scrutiny. We are held accountable for every pedophile who uses the net to solicit.

I am a STRONG advocate of http://www.asacp.org/ and believe all of us have a duty to embrace their program.

So smart, yet so dumb. None of the content filtering programs are worth much. They either filter too much or not enough. Educating kids is the only parental tool of merit.

Adult webmasters are not pedophiles and we do take legal and media heat for them. The adult industry needs to take a stand against pedophile behavior.

I have done a great deal of work for schools and you would be amazed how much pornographic SPAM goes to K12 mail boxes and K12 newsgroups.

It is not too hard to filter outgoing SPAM to not go to email addresses that have k12.state.us in the email addresses. A small easy step.

If we do not take the affirmative steps they will be made for us and they will not be pretty. Eventually laws will pass that will regulate in the name of protecting children, COPA was one effort; of it is tossed there will be another.

It will be much better for the entire industry if reputable webmasters selfregulate and support industry organizations that present a positive image to the world.

Just because that is offered as a extra precaution to protect children doesnt give webmasters the right to use programs to spam chatrooms and flood email boxes of millions of children a day.

ahh...interner is evil, and should be like for 19+ or something

I agree, but soliciting of a 14 uear old like this has nothing to do with spamming or even porn for that matter.

I think these pedophiles trying to lure young girls should be caught, castrated and hung......but I don't like to see it equated with spam.......

We already have a bunch of people in the press who always links chatroom luring to the porn industry and that bugs me and it demeans the victims.

Pedophiles and predators are in our society, our churches and even online. Educating children is paramount and a neverending job. Parenting is difficult and isn't getting any easier. Parents need to be educated and they need to, in turn, educate their children.

While I agree spamming of public chatrooms where children hang out is wrong, but the owners of chatrooms who have adult material should also do what they can to keep children out. It's a two way street. I realize a chatroom operator can only control so much, but it's not hard to put filters in public rooms where a child might visit. I'm not talking about the kid who stumbles into Lesbian ButtFuckers chatrooms, but a fucking Harry Potter chatroom should have some semblence of fucking control.

Personally, I don't want spam in chatrooms where children hang out because children don't have credit cards and make no money...they only burn bandwidth and piss of parents and politicians....

I seldom want to get into a debate about spam, because I know that it is hard to change someone's view about it. But let me play the devil's advocate here for a minute or two.

Let's put it nicely here shall we? Do you really think we adult webmasters in this business are SAINTS in the eyes of the world? Do you honestly think that most people would think we are SAINTS? The perception about adult webmasters are that we are slezzy slimeballs.

But we still do our thing because for most of us, this is a lucrative business. We are in this business because SEX SELLS. It is a fact and nothing can change that. Most of us do not care about the morality of this business because we all have mouths to feed, be it your own or those little children you have at home.

I have seen a lot of programs and even websites that claim the following good business not bad business tactics in this industry. But look guys, we are in a war indirectly between ourselves. Some of us post to TGPs because we want traffic but we are competing among ourselves. We also do AVS etc and the surfer has a tonne of free sites to go to. Do a search on any TGP and you will find millions of galleries, do a search for AVS or free sites and you will always find millions of sites also. Now, just because some of them may advocate different things like Child PORNOGRAPHY or EVEN SPAM do you think the public cares if you do CHILD PORNOGRAPHY or even MATURE? Look, they don't care, all they care right now is that we are corrupting their HUSBAND'S, THEIR CHILDREN OR EVEN THEIR BOYFRIENDS. In their MIND, THEY DON'T CARE IF YOU PUT WARNING SIGNS ETC.

In their minds, we are hopeless idiots who prey on guy's basic instincts. However, we have people here who think we are SAINTS and by not doing SPAMMING, we are doing good business but look, that is a double standard ok?

I do NOT spam because I do not believe in it, but some do. Do you think KIDS do not surf to your WEBSITE. GROW UP if you doubt it. They do make up a majority of your surfers. Look, all i am saying is spamming is a marketing tool, so lets not bash it too bad shall we? Or am I totally off in your opinion?

-Nato

Maybe they wouldnt think we where such "slime" if they didnt find 29 porn emails in their 11 year old kids mail box. And there is a difference between children looking for adult sites and throwing links in their faces.

Just out of curiousity, in AOL they specifically ask you if you are registering a screen name for a child, and if so you can control what the child sees no?

Or is it just a joke?

You cant control Incoming Instant Messages, or a auto link chatroom spam robot, unless you dont want your child to have any interaction at all on the internet. You can buy them a $1000 solitary machine.

"I do NOT spam because I do not believe in it, but some do. Do you think KIDS do not surf to your WEBSITE. GROW UP if you doubt it. They do make up a majority of your surfers. Look, all i am saying is spamming is a marketing tool, so lets not bash it too bad shall we? Or am I totally off in your opinion? "

I am not going to claim to be a saint nor do I want to sound self rightous. Yet there are ethical ways to cater to adults who want to purchase what we sell. Children are not the target market, they do not buy what we sell. We do not try to attract children to our sites and that is the issue here. Not the random surfer but the solicitation.

If you agree with that one idea then marketing can and should be targeted toward the potential buyers; good business in any business. SPAM is a marketing tool, one we elect not to use, but a tool nevertheless.

The major issue revolved around perceptions of the public. If you run an adult site ethically you can still target your market and make money. The law at least in the US is ambiguous at best so ethics are the only tool.

My suggestion is that ethical adult webmasters support industry organizations that try to create a positive public perception of the industry. Will we ever be saints? I hope not that is not our business but we can be ethical.

I am 100% sure children surf through pornographic webpages that I have built. The children that find these pages where looking for them. The children that visit a chatroom and get IMed 20x and recieve 10 adultsite spam emails may have not been in search for this. If I have to state this again I will puke.

BTW,

I saw a link in one of those chatrooms, looked like this:

Yo, chris here is my <u>pics</u>

And lead to a page with dialer links

I could not agree with you more. I was quoting Flyingco

Thank you for your kind comments, but lets do some soul searching here shall we? Whether or not, some other webmaster spams or not, we are basically promoting the sex industry to a certain extent. And in terms of the self righteous people, we are always slime balls. Whether we like it or not. Before I got into this industry, I can honestly say that I always thought people who were in this industry were morally degrading. It does NOT matter if we pimp online under the anonymous name of Joe D or we pimp in real life. We are "pimps" so say some! Are we unethical in promoting trash in the eyes of the world, I think so. Whether or not it is a BIG name player or not, we are promoting trash that will corrupt the mind, we still do it.

The issue is this at least in my opinion, whether or not, we "pimp" we are already have a bad name. And in my opinion if you are going to "hang me out to dry without a fair trial, I am going to go down blazing."

Just my ramblings.

I would hope if people were going to spam aol chat rooms they would atleast hit the adult ones.

I guess they might be getting desperate and hope a child clicks a dialer but that is sickening

This time I am going to quote myself. It is ethics and good business not to market to children. There is no way to prevent child surfers but there is not justification to solicit children.

So we are in agreement that children do search for and will visit our websites whether or not we actively go in search for them. Your point seems to be that good business ethics should not entail Instant Messaging someone who goes into a chat room. Ok, how many of you have and are guilty then here of having a signature that promotes your own website or someone's else program? I think more then 90% of you do that. Do you honestly think you aren't corrupting my poor brains either? :)

Look all I am saying is this. What would happen if one day the US legislation says all ONLINE PORN SHOULD BE BANNED; will you still be doing this? I will fucking state most of you will continue to do it because as you know it will mean less competition and as a business owner; you will take a chance to fucking make money. Most of us here do not care about LEGISLATION ok? But we fucking care if our sibling are corrupted by some email, but by the same token, we can fucking build 1000's of websites that will corrupt someone else. Aren't we dealing with the same thing? We are still corrupting someone else....

-Nato

I dont really see any reason one would want to..

even if you ran bots on aol chat rooms wouldnt the adult ones convert better?

Thanks for your reply.

I will state this. Many of us webmasters do subscribe that it is ethics and good business not to market to children. But by the same token, aren't we kinda screwed up? Ethics is what is described as a SET OF MORALS (OXYMORON for us webmasters, because if we had MORALS like the world defines it, we will not be in this business) that we live by. If it is an oxymoron, then isn't it true our sense of right and wrong is also at risk? Learnt that in Philo 101.

-Nato

I am NOT saying we should solicit children, but shit happens. Some bag of tricks in this business includes taking domains that have good rankings that are NOT xxx domains and turning them into feeder sites. That is NOT good business ethics either. But we do it either way don't we? The world is NOT perfect lets face it; and I highly think neither you or I can change the world.

-Nato

The wonderful thing about both ethics and morality is that they are etherial and intangible. We make our own ethics or adopt those of our society. Therefore my ethical choices and yours might not be the same.

I have no problem with what my company sells, others might. The issue here however is marketing to children. That is both bad business and bad for the industry generically.

I do think we disagree on that point.

That depends on how you feel about it. I supply adult entertainment on the internet, with adult being the keyword. I think it is wrong to force adult material on public chatrooms that are 80% people underage. And the ones that do this know, thats why they use dialers

I concur. :)

Here is some food for thought though.

Long ago, I used to play a text game called Tradewars 2002. Some of you may know it, while others may not. It was a game whereby you role played as a captain of a starship and basically traded for money. You could play either as a good guy trying to aim to become a federal general or you could play as a bad evil pirate who terrorized the galaxy. Now, while I was in college, and had frat brothers who played the game with me, I used to chose to play the good guy. Lets face it guys, deep down, we all like to be good guys. However, one day someone showed me how much faster I could climb if I chose the evil route and lo and behold, I got addicted to the cash that it generated which meant the huge amount of troops I could buy with it hence rule the galaxy, so while 90% of the galaxy was good, I was one of the 10% that was on the evil route. And you would be amazed at how many people even in a game were calling me EVIL AND SATAN'S CHILD ETC. It was ONLY A GAME FOR CRYING OUT LOUD. The POINT is this: Translated back to real life, many of us chose this business because HECK, the cash flow is a lot better then if many of us were working for someone else. It is a fact! I would like to hear how many of you webmasters are doing it for a passion instead of money, because if you are, YOU CAN BE EMPLOYED BY ME FOR FREE YES? And heck, I will take you in immediately, no questions asked.

Marketing is a strange thing. We hate to admit it but most marketing people are at war! And in any war, there are casulaties. And in this case, there will be some children who are casualties and lets face it, it is a dog eat dog world out there. And it is better you are get whacked then me.

-Nato

Yes, we all supply adult entertainment on the net, with adult being the keyword. But let me rephrase your answer in another way, 70% of the people on the net are reglious rights, females and children. Does it make it right that we are promoting porn also?


-Nato

I just like to state that all exchanges here have been very enlightening. Many posters may NOT agree with my posts and nor may I really concur with theirs, but I do respect all your point of views and it has been nice exchanging views with you guys. Nothing personal guys. Have a great year ahead.

-Nato

I understand where your getting at, lets keep it simple.

SELL PORN TO ADULTS= BAD

SELL PORN TO KIDS = REALLY BAD

SELLING DRUGS TO GROWN UPS = BAD

SELLING DRUGS TO KIDS = REALLY BAD

MURDER ADULTS = BAD

MURDER KIDS = REALLY BAD

It appears I can control quite a bit of stuff if I want to give my son an AOL acct
2. AOL's Parental Controls help you set limits on what your children can see and do while they are online.

When you create a screen name for your child, you'll be asked to select a basic age category such as Kids Only or Young Teen for your child. Each of the basic age categories has predefined limits for e-mail, Web, chat, and more. These categories will help you tailor the online experience for your child. To learn more about these age categories, please see the More Information Section below.


And really, why in the fuck would porn spammers hit up a young teen or a childrens only chat? Not like these kids have cc's and can actually buy anything...

Nice analogy. :)

SELL PORN TO ADULT = BAD
SELL PORN TO KIDS = REALLY BAD.

It is a degree of badness we are talking about, aren't we?

SELLING DRUGS TO GROWNUPS = BAD
SELLING DRUGS TO KIDS = REALLY BAD

Bottom line both will get you behind bars and in some countries the death sentence.

MURDER ADULTS = BAD
MURDER KIDS = REALLY BAD.

If all the options are as follows as abovementioned then it would deem to follow if I am going to do the time, LETS DO THE CRIME.

-Nato

kids these days love stealing parents credit cards...not to mention kids downloading dialers and not thinking twice. I have already deleted 3 self installing dialers from a cousins house.

well tdf, the point is that I can control what my son sees on aol, i just signed up a dummy screen name as if it were for him, using the correct age and controls for that age. I'll watch it for a few days and see what lands in his email box.

AIM is disabled by default for his age group, not that I have a problem with that.

Yes a degree in badness:glugglug

But with the issue at hand, ultimately the price will have to be paid by all adult webmasters. Someone will ruin it for all of us. Computers will come equipped with a anti-porn browser program thing and we will lose pontential adult customers.

I am workin on my new if under 18 exit page
KIDS get into paysites free and your parents will never know
Just go get the card out of your dads wallet then cancel before the 3 day free trial is up



tdf add my home icq 84361147 im way funner when im home drinkin that at the office haha

KK i agree with you one hundred percent and I admit that AOL has improved a lot of parent control features that have only gotten better with each version but here lies the problem. CHATROOMS.

Most children hit the chatrooms as soon as they sign on and most spammers have a bot running to collect email adresses and spam the chat rooms with convincing links that kids who aren't experienced to the net become click happy. I applaud any parent who truly monitors their child's net use but these days it seems the parent's are too comfortable with the system thats there and let their child go on auto-pilot.

one can only imagine...added! :1orglaugh

I do not mean to get on your case but lets face it; IN EVERY INDUSTRY there are stupid idiots who will ruin everything for everyone.

When I first got my first computer and I found out the PROFIT MARGIN for a computer, GEEZ, I will tell you man, I could make over 100,000 a month selling computers that I built to other people. I had that much margin. But during the last few years, we have seen more power computers and cheaper. Lets put it this way, the last year or so, I decided to sell my remaining computer company to someone else. The margins have fallen drastically and companies like DELL, HP and IBM aren't helping much. They seem to market on pricing. They call it market forces. Bullshit. It is more like fucking price wars!

These BIG guys have ruined the computer industry because they think by pricing it cheap they can get market share, but look guys, a coke in the 70s cost me less then a quater. Now it can cost me 75 cents to a buck in some places or more. Other prices of stuff go up, but computer prices come down? GEEZ. No one cries for you kenny, if one day you find your adult business does not pay the bills. I am sorry to say that but it is true. Likewise no one will cry for me if I go under. It is a fact of life. Someone posted here. If one day, we find that TGPs are the bane of our industry and 90% of the reputable companies here ban TGPs, there will be some idiots who will still put up a TGP because it makes money and there is a market demand for it; and even though if one day stats will prove that it will kill the market, some fucker will do it because they don't care if the industry fails, it is whether they will make that 5 Million dollars this year. Lets face it TGP2 was a great idea but failed because there are still idiots who think TGP 1 is great and they could NOT CARE LESS IF YOU DIE. Look, it is a sad fact of life, and we got to take it with the punches, there will be webmasters who are looking out for themsevles no matter what.

The key is to be one step ahead of them and make sure you survive anything thrown at you.


-Nato

Ok but it is still wrong to target children with spam bots and dialers

Hmmm, tdf, I'll check it out, supposedly the chatrooms for his age group are monitored as well.

*I* don't expect someone else to look after my kid on the internet, that is MY job. If I see something inappropriate that he is looking at or don't agree with him playing games, which is what most parents would do if they stopped and thought about the internet.

What does that any of that have to do with running a bot in an AOL chatroom and targetting kids with porn ads?

The key point I am trying to make is this. You CANNOT CONTROL and all you can do is BITCH about how another webmaster is doing business. EG, HP cannot go to DELL and say you are going to kill the COMPUTER MARKET by marketing direct and that there are VENDORS who we rely on to make money and make sales. DELL DOES NOT FUCKING CARE if HP goes under. Likewise, you cannot go tell another webmaster hey your fucking bot and targetting children will kill the industry if these webmasters are making cash. They could give 0 flying fucks if you survive in this industry.

They are using a TOOL and again I REPEAT A TOOL to make sales. As an adult webmaster you can HOWEVER make the decision whether to use the TOOL or NOT. But all the BITCHING in this world will NOT make a difference. All you can do is just sit back and do your own decision whether to use the tool or not.

Peace

-Nato

ONE MILLION POINTS FOR THE TRADEWARS 2002 ANALOGY!

anyway, i'm sure all of you know how i feel about spam.

granted, anything can obviously be abused and misused and what not, but as previously stated it is all a relative degree of "badness". the fact is, money is real important to me. i do have limits - i'm not a contract killer and i wouldn't sell my mom into slavery - not everything has a price. i will make that paper anyway i possibly can so that i eat, my wife and child eat, and i can put a roof over my head.

no one that i know specifically targets minors and everyone i know is real good about using remove lists. if a motherfucker is going to complain and bitch about one little mail or im, why would i dare send him/her any more? that is moronic business. if someone doesn't want your product, especially in this case, no kind of rebuttal is needed. fuck it, move on, there's a zillion people on the internet.

my $.02 holla at ya boy

yt whats your icq?

You play TW2002?

-Nato

I concur with your take on Spam.

-Nato

i played tradewars on the old bbs shiat
i was the massive bbs hax0r back in the day bitch white sands 303 tacd dominion vamps anonymous wolves den local legends

my icq is 101704 props to the hackers with low numbers

your young kids dont need to be chatting on the internet, its going to lead them into a life of solitude, web whoring and useless information overload. they will become anti social, have no real life friends and become socially unable to cope with society. they will become lazy and unhealthy. they will seclude themselves in a cyber world and tune out reality.

the internet is the same as drugs. an addiction in disguise.

keep em off that shit. make them socialize and play sports. spend time with them and dont let them dabble off into the uncontrolled internet forest of sin and become a loaner

The do as I say not as I do logic will never hold in parenthood:glugglug