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brassmonkey

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#1

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11-18-2009, 10:10 AM

ok this is total bullshit! i paid a gfy member 2 make me a small script so i decide 2 sale a few copies and he tells me i cant he owns the script wtf i think its shady ill tell u his name later i want to know what u think.

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#2

11-18-2009, 10:14 AM
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#3

11-18-2009, 10:14 AM

Originally posted by brassmonkey

ok this is total bullshit! i paid a gfy member 2 make me a small script so i decide 2 sale a few copies and he tells me i cant he owns the script wtf i think its shady ill tell u his name later i want to know what u think.

Lets see the agreement you had in place.
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#4

11-18-2009, 10:15 AM

Contracts

and did you two discuss this before the project was started?

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brassmonkey

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#5

11-18-2009, 10:16 AM

well its my idea why should he have right 2 my idea he added a disclaimer he snuck in there i didnt see it till after i paid

Last edited by brassmonkey; 11-18-2009, 10:18 AM.

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#6

11-18-2009, 10:34 AM

When I do custom coding for people it is normally something I discuss before I start. A small piece of code wouldn't matter to me in the slightest. But any sort of full script I would prefer to know the intention.

But if it was your idea and it was written specifically for you (and not a copied script) then I would say you haven't done anything wrong other then not discussed it first.

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brassmonkey

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#7

11-18-2009, 10:37 AM

Originally posted by XD2

When I do custom coding for people it is normally something I discuss before I start. A small piece of code wouldn't matter to me in the slightest. But any sort of full script I would prefer to know the intention.

But if it was your idea and it was written specifically for you (and not a copied script) then I would say you haven't done anything wrong other then not discussed it first.

why would i have 2 tell you what im doing with it so you can bump up the price

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#8

11-18-2009, 10:41 AM

it all depends on who has the bigger penis
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#9

11-18-2009, 10:42 AM

You should ask for full rights over the script just before paying for it
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#10

11-18-2009, 10:46 AM

Originally posted by Juicy D. Links

it all depends on who has the bigger penis

+1

An alternative way is who can make the better cockshoe photo.

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brassmonkey

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#11

11-18-2009, 10:47 AM

well its not a big deal i just wont do business with them again

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#12

11-18-2009, 10:47 AM

you should use it fully, it's yours, your idea, you paid for it. done!

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#13

11-18-2009, 10:49 AM

Originally posted by brassmonkey

why would i have 2 tell you what im doing with it so you can bump up the price

Sometimes I use php classes I wrote myself to acheive someones desired effect so why should I let that person resell it without consulting me.

I did mention this only applies to larger scripts and systems, small scripts don't really concern me. But I always ask for the above reason. If someone needs a script that will do a job and it is for their use and I have code already that can do it I can/will code for a much lower price.

However if someone wants a script that is exclusive to them and they hold the rights and can do what they want with it, then yeah I will be charging slightly more to cover my time.

It works the other way aswell, I have done many scripts for a fraction of the price if the person was happy for me to resell it or use it as part of another system. I am not just expecting my client to tell me their intentions, I state mine aswell. I just find it better to know whats happening from the start.

Anyway this is only my opinion.

Last edited by XD2; 11-18-2009, 10:51 AM.

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#14

11-18-2009, 10:59 AM

Its shady at best, he does have the right to do it but quite frankly i would out him as stuff like that has NO place in professional busienss.

All he is doing is trying to get rights to the idea and make more money from it!

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brassmonkey

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#15

11-18-2009, 11:07 AM

well he said he owns the script

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#16

11-18-2009, 11:27 AM

yeah, if you told the programmer what to do and paid for it, its fully yours. if it will be idea of the programmer and you only bought the script, its his. nothing more to talk about
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#17

11-18-2009, 11:30 AM

Originally posted by XD2

Sometimes I use php classes I wrote myself to acheive someones desired effect so why should I let that person resell it without consulting me.

I did mention this only applies to larger scripts and systems, small scripts don't really concern me. But I always ask for the above reason. If someone needs a script that will do a job and it is for their use and I have code already that can do it I can/will code for a much lower price.

However if someone wants a script that is exclusive to them and they hold the rights and can do what they want with it, then yeah I will be charging slightly more to cover my time.

It works the other way aswell, I have done many scripts for a fraction of the price if the person was happy for me to resell it or use it as part of another system. I am not just expecting my client to tell me their intentions, I state mine aswell. I just find it better to know whats happening from the start.

Anyway this is only my opinion.

And your opinion is absolutely correct and fair. It all comes down to the license agreement. If there is none, I'd tend to side with the person paying for it to do whatever he wants with it. However, I have a feeling that brassmonkey's situation is similar to what you bring up above. That is, the contractor had a majority of the work done in a personal library to achieve the implementation and therefore was able to do it cheaper as a per license script. The fault lands on the developer if he did not properly specify the intended use of the script and also, if he was so serious about owning the rights to the script, there should be some sort of licensing mechanism built in. If there were, it would be obvious that the script was intended for one site and not to be resold--because it would be impossible.

So my , without knowing more, I'd side with BrassMonkey but I think there's a lesson to be learned by inexperienced IC to properly state how they intend their software to be used before agreeing to a project.
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#18

11-18-2009, 11:37 AM

Originally posted by cyco_cc

And your opinion is absolutely correct and fair. It all comes down to the license agreement. If there is none, I'd tend to side with the person paying for it to do whatever he wants with it. However, I have a feeling that brassmonkey's situation is similar to what you bring up above. That is, the contractor had a majority of the work done in a personal library to achieve the implementation and therefore was able to do it cheaper as a per license script. The fault lands on the developer if he did not properly specify the intended use of the script and also, if he was so serious about owning the rights to the script, there should be some sort of licensing mechanism built in. If there were, it would be obvious that the script was intended for one site and not to be resold--because it would be impossible.

So my , without knowing more, I'd side with BrassMonkey but I think there's a lesson to be learned by inexperienced IC to properly state how they intend their software to be used before agreeing to a project.

programmers taking ownership 2 something that they didnt have b4 i ordered it is shady

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#19

11-18-2009, 11:54 AM

Originally posted by brassmonkey

programmers taking ownership 2 something that they didnt have b4 i ordered it is shady

If that's 100% the case it's worse than shady, it's just wrong and you should never work with them again (which you already stated you wouldn't ;)
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#20

11-18-2009, 12:00 PM

Originally posted by brassmonkey

programmers taking ownership 2 something that they didnt have b4 i ordered it is shady

Playing devil's advocate, but if you ask me to wrote you a song I by law still own the rights to that music unless it's otherwise specified in the contract. Is there a legal difference between writting a song and writting a programming script?
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#21

11-18-2009, 12:04 PM

Presuming the design website in your sig is your own, your terms and conditions read:

Modifications
The Client is authorized to make any necessary modification(s) to Adult Design Evolution's products to fit his purposes only after full payment of the services.
You may not place any of Adult Design Evolution's products, modified or unmodified and offer them for redistribution or resale of any kind without prior written consent from Adult Design Evolution.

So you expect your clients to seek written permission for resale of a product you didn't have before they ordered. So how can you say I shouldn't be able to ask what my clients intentions are for my scripts?

p.s. I was looking at the website because I want a designer for something

Last edited by XD2; 11-18-2009, 12:05 PM.

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brassmonkey

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#22

11-18-2009, 12:17 PM

Originally posted by XD2

Presuming the design website in your sig is your own, your terms and conditions read:

So you expect your clients to seek written permission for resale of a product you didn't have before they ordered. So how can you say I shouldn't be able to ask what my clients intentions are for my scripts?

p.s. I was looking at the website because I want a designer for something

i dont make the rules at Adult Design Evolution iam not the owner order away anyway

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#23

11-18-2009, 12:23 PM

it's sticky situation for sure but I can see where the coder is coming from.
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#24

11-18-2009, 12:25 PM

I have no problem with the condition, just pointing it out as it was relevant to your reply to my post.

Anyway, I honestly do hope your despute is resolved.

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#25

11-18-2009, 12:28 PM

Just out him, I would never work with such a person.
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brassmonkey

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#26

11-18-2009, 12:45 PM

Originally posted by JD

it's sticky situation for sure but I can see where the coder is coming from.

and where is that keep ownership maybe i can sell the idea? i have bigger stuff im glad i didn't reveal i was close ill get a company to do it and future scripts lesson learned

Originally posted by Robocrop

Just out him, I would never work with such a person.

Homer Simpson ( this is my view has nothing to do with his skills. I dont like his way of handling a script i payed for)

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#27

11-18-2009, 12:50 PM

LOL!

Thanks for reminding me why writing code for an adult webmaster is the biggest
waste on the planet.
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brassmonkey

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#28

11-18-2009, 12:54 PM

Originally posted by sortie

LOL!

Thanks for reminding me why writing code for an adult webmaster is the biggest
waste on the planet.

what the hell are you saying your not really saying what u mean a waste how

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#29

11-18-2009, 01:16 PM

Originally posted by brassmonkey

what the hell are you saying your not really saying what u mean a waste how

It's a well known fact that you need to discuss any resell rights about code that you
order from the programmer.

Programmers may do $3000 worth of work on your $300 job because he believes he
can re-use the code for other jobs. But if you are giving/seling the code then
where are his clients coming from.

You are fucking yourself but you don't realize it.
No decent programmer is going to code for you after this post.

If the code you have turns out to have a bug in it then you probably will not
getting any help from your programmer after trying to fuck him by reselling
his code as if it was your product.

Call Microsoft and ask them to code a special driver for a device you have then
try and resell it because "it was your idea".

Ideas are not copyrightable dude!
Only the actual representation of the idea is copyrightable.
The programmer copyrights the code, you have nothing but an idea.
Ideas don't make money; the implementation of the idea makes the money.

In other words; your idea was a useless piece of mental dribble until you used someone
else's brains and skills to implement it. Then you failed to establish a contact to
get the rights for the implementation.

Try thinking of this another way.

Example :

Instead of a website, you own a radio station.
Madonna writes and sings a short jingle for your station for $xxxx.
You now decide to use a sound editor and cut out your radio station call letters and
insert other stations call letters and sell the jingle to other radio stations and not
pay Madonna.

Do you really think something like that would fly?

That's what you are trying to do with the programmers code.
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#30

11-18-2009, 01:17 PM

Interesting.

Unless they are building the script from scratch, AND, you have a non-compete or an agreement that you are the sole owner (typically costs more) and that you can resell it, what the programmer is saying would be correct.

I come up with ideas all the time, but a lot of times a coder has a back bone piece of code they are building things on. So they will not agree to signing off to some exclusive, one time, deal.... much less a resell or re-licensing without a higher price tag.

It is not saying that it is not possible to get one. However with the different things I have done. Even when my idea, and they have nothing close, few will sign off to the exclusive type thing. UNLESS you get the coder from a lancer, rent a coder where they MUST sign off.

Even then, if overseas, I doubt they honor the agreement.

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brassmonkey

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#31

11-18-2009, 01:19 PM

Originally posted by sortie

It's a well known fact that you need to discuss any resell rights about code that you
order from the programmer.

Programmers may do $3000 worth of work on your $300 job because he believes he
can re-use the code for other jobs. But if you are giving/seling the code then
where are his clients coming from.

You are fucking yourself but you don't realize it.
No decent programmer is going to code for you after this post.

If the code you have turns out to have a bug in it then you probably will not
getting any help from your programmer after trying to fuck him by reselling
his code as if it was your product.

Call Microsoft and ask them to code a special driver for a device you have then
try and resell it because "it was your idea".

Ideas are not copyrightable dude!
Only the actual representation of the idea is copyrightable.
The programmer copyrights the code, you have nothing but an idea.
Ideas don't make money; the implementation of the idea makes the money.

In other words; your idea was a useless piece of mental dribble until you used someone
else's brains and skills to implement it. Then you failed to establish a contact to
get the rights for the implementation.

Try thinking of this another way.

Example :

Instead of a website, you own a radio station.
Madonna writes and sings a short jingle for your station for $xxxx.
You now decide to use a sound editor and cut out your radio station call letters and
insert other stations call letters and sell the jingle to other radio stations and not
pay Madonna.

Do you really think something like that would fly?

That's what you are trying to do with the programmers code.

"Ideas are not copyrightable dude!"
thats a damn lie

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#32

11-18-2009, 01:22 PM

Originally posted by pornopete

Let me give one more example. I buy a content set from a producer, should I have the rights to resell that content set since I paid for it?

Heck I even asked for the girl to pose a specific way! It was my idea to get her to hang from the chandaller and get the action shots of her doing the triple lindy.

whatever dude as far as i know he did it from scratch thats what i wanted

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brassmonkey

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#33

11-18-2009, 01:25 PM

Originally posted by pornopete

Ummmmm, do you know that to be false? Who owns the copyright on the flying car? I'm sure somebody thought of it.

i have 2 ideas in the patent office hopefully in a store near u in 2010

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brassmonkey

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#34

11-18-2009, 01:36 PM

Originally posted by pornopete

Is one of them a flying car?

I'm patenting masturbation. You own me royalties!

well do your homework on the process read the book don't beat it over your head

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#35

11-18-2009, 01:39 PM

mm.. so think again , to make clear, before you do, discuss the agreement

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#36

11-18-2009, 01:39 PM

good contracts make good............
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#37

11-18-2009, 01:40 PM

Originally posted by pornopete

Exactly, the artist has the rights, not the music studio that contracted the artist to write the music.

The artist retains all rights unless it is explicitly defined (either by contact or
obvious circumstances) that the writing of the song is a "work for hire".

In other words : If it is established that the song writer/programmer is directly employed
as a employee for the creation of the work then the employee does not have certain
rights to the work.

Paying someone to "do a job" is not the same thing as them being an employee.
If it were, then I would simply file unemployment claims against everyone I
ever programmed for.

Nobody wants that.
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#38

11-18-2009, 01:50 PM

Originally posted by brassmonkey

"Ideas are not copyrightable dude!"
thats a damn lie

You're a damned idiot

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright

Originally posted by wikipedia

Copyright does not cover ideas and information themselves, only the form or manner in which they are expressed. For example, the copyright to a Mickey Mouse cartoon restricts others from making copies of the cartoon or creating derivative works based on Disney's particular anthropomorphic mouse, but it does not prohibit the creation of other works about anthropomorphic mice in general, so long as they're not copies or adaptations of Disney's mouse. In many jurisdictions, copyright law makes exceptions to these restrictions when the work is copied for the purpose of commentary or other related uses (See Fair Use, Fair Dealing). However, other laws ? such as trademark and patent law ? may impose additional restrictions that copyright does not.

Like I said earlier, a total waste to even try to work with an adult webmaster.

Adult webmaster = "business person who does no research except how to
get the next slut on camera". Then bitches about obeying the law they never read.
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brassmonkey

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#39

11-18-2009, 01:53 PM

Originally posted by sortie

You're a damned idiot

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright

Like I said earlier, a total waste to even try to work with an adult webmaster.

Adult webmaster = "business person who does no research except how to
get the next slut on camera". Then bitches about obeying the law they never read.

Count down to my exit from adult. 3 months to go. bye playa its just a small script quoting wikipedia funny shit

Last edited by brassmonkey; 11-18-2009, 01:55 PM.

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#40

11-18-2009, 02:12 PM

Originally posted by brassmonkey

Count down to my exit from adult. 3 months to go. bye playa its just a small script quoting wikipedia funny shit

So it's a small script; so why all the fuss?

Don't like Wiki?

Try the US copyright office :

http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/fa...l.html#protect

Says the same shit.

Like I said before : Total Waste.
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#41

11-18-2009, 02:24 PM

Just to clarify you can copyright an idea as long as you can explain the workings of the idea.

So no you couldn't just think of a car flying and then copyright the flying car idea. But if you can explain how the car would fly and the technology required then yes you can copyright the flying car idea.

Point being you don't need any physical representation of what you want to patent aslong as all the theoretical workings are detailed.

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#42

11-18-2009, 02:43 PM

As far as I'm concerned, it sounds like a work for hire, and the employer/person who paid for it should own the copyright.

Not sure how that would work out with your contract situation.

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#43

11-18-2009, 02:45 PM

Originally posted by XD2

Just to clarify you can copyright an idea as long as you can explain the workings of the idea.

So no you couldn't just think of a car flying and then copyright the flying car idea. But if you can explain how the car would fly and the technology required then yes you can copyright the flying car idea.

Point being you don't need any physical representation of what you want to patent aslong as all the theoretical workings are detailed.

You can't copyright an idea.

You have your forms of intellectual property mixed up

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#44

11-18-2009, 02:50 PM

Originally posted by CYF

You can't copyright an idea.

You have your forms of intellectual property mixed up

Hmm, fair enough I am thinking of Patents for inventions. So I stand corrected.

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#45

11-18-2009, 03:11 PM

ok thanx for all the input and who did the name calling he gave me permission 2 sale the script (like i needed it) i think homer is a good programmer but this issue he went left and i went right on the ownership. Damn

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JD

Too lazy to set a custom title

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#46

11-18-2009, 03:52 PM

50 ownership issues
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brassmonkey

Pay It Forward

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#47

11-18-2009, 03:58 PM

Originally posted by JD

50 ownership issues

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Loch

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#48

11-18-2009, 03:58 PM

Originally posted by sortie

LOL!

Thanks for reminding me why writing code for an adult webmaster is the biggest
waste on the planet.

Cleerly you have never worked for a serious company that paid well....sad

And you would think the programmer would bring up these issues beforehand....if its not brought up and he is doing (a cheap job to reuse the idea later), well that is just outright dishonest and probably why they are scrambling for work.

Edit: Just to be clear here, the programmer can re use anything he creates....even if he works for microsoft in their office....UNLESS a contract says otherwise.

Its the way its done from too many smalltime programmers in this business relying on the fact that most webmasters are unaware of this fact!

Last edited by Loch; 11-18-2009, 04:03 PM.

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Juicy D. Links

So Fucking Banned

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#49

11-18-2009, 04:01 PM

sword fight!!!!!!!!!!!
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Cyber Fucker

Hmm

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#50

11-18-2009, 04:04 PM

Originally posted by Juicy D. Links

it all depends on who has the bigger penis
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