Can the Tube's still help?
 

I was speaking with a big program owner today and we were talking about the tubes.

If these guys were to create a flagging system. Then give all content producers, majors DVD companies, and anyone who has content that could be posted on their site a log in section. Then as that company finds content that is uploaded they will be able to log into their admin and flag that content and it would be removed immediately. Additionally for them if they see anyone who is given a log in abusing this they would be screwed.

This would give the adult tubes a chance to run themselves just like YouTube does.

Let's all be honest, if we want to start calling user submitted adult tubes illegal, then we have to lump YouTube in with them. There is content daily posted on YouTube that is illegal and the major studios DCMA or get the content removed through a flagging system.

Is there still hope to clean this whole mess up in this manner or is it just a battle to shut them down?

youtube has been sued many times and has scenes sliced from many movies and gets DMCA/CnDs daily.

NO one who pays attention ever thought youtube was any different.... which is why theyve been sued.

I think it would be great if the tubes and sellers could co egsist, but it would be easier if the TUBES THEMSELVES took responsablity for their content, NOT the producers!

If people wanna share their own 'home made pron' like Xtube does, have the sites like that one!

Upload your own cocntent- NOT 'borrowed' or purchased content from other areas.

I think what customers are forgetting these days, is that they are purchasing the right to VIEW our product, not to REDISTRIBUTE IT! and posting it on a tube is major distrobuition!!!!!

excuse my spelling, I know it sucks, but my point is still clear.

If the tubes wanna play fair, they have to impliment their own end of what's admissable.

I'm a cam gilr, and to cam I have to adhear to rules and sign docs and all that shit to be able to work, Xtube does the same thing- I looked into posting some of my videos there a while back actually.

and if it's gonna be member submitted videos on tube sites, they should have a screening area where people check every submitted video upload, like AFF, where I'm also a member.

Every video submitted is throughly screened beforeposting.

If they can do it on a dating site- they can do it on a tube site too!!!

If they can't get their own screening under control, than yeah- they should be shut down!

My opinion at least

No doubt it would be easier if things did work like that. The bigger issue is that tubes who have content submitted by users are not technically breaking any laws. So as long as the law gives them safe harbor for what they are doing we have to start thinking creatively.

The alternative is to start lawsuit after lawsuit just like the ones that hit YouTube. The issue there is that those things cost time and money, and many companies find that it is easier to just fight the battle behind the scenes to have their content removed than to start a lawsuit where the defendant is going to say that a user uploaded the content and they will now just have it removed and the judge will throw the case out.

This is all far more complex than most people would like it to be. In the end we have to come up with solutions that are viable and cost effective for everyone.

I have to ask this again, because it just seems to be logical, at least I think it is???


2257 regulations, don't they come into effect with the broadcasting adult content?
Aren't the tubes bound to comply with those regulations too?

And if not- shouldn't they be?

Maybe the answer is easier than it seems?
Legislature!

Use 2257 as a shield for our content, they have to provide docs, and if that's not the case, make it the case!

Take the issue to court on a grand scale and make documentation of all adult content broadcast online a legal universal requirement!

I do realize how big that sounds and how difficult it would be, to have a bill passed to protect our content, but in re addressing it legally and as a side compontent in 2257 legislation, etc... wouldn't government want to take a hand this?

I dunno I could be talking out my ass here?
But I'm throughing it out there for feed back and facts at this point...

I personally don't beleive that sufers upload 30 minute pornstar movies to the tube sites. Sorry, that doesn't comput for me. It's the owner of the tubes sites that upload and enter a random IP number so it's no one that uploads it.
Asking a tube site to provide simple ways for producers to remove this would be a silly.

BTW - 99% of content that's uploaded to the illegal tube sites is not owned by the uploader. So the site would just shut down.
Even the amateur stuff is owned by programs.

By your logic then all those surfer forums that have complete members areas uploaded to them are not uploaded by the users either?

What about YouTube and the full length TV shows that are uploaded there? Are you saying that YouTube is uploading that stuff.

BINGO.

Zorgman, you need to visit the surfer forums. Your eyes will be opened.

That's one of the most ironic things. The tube owners didn't have to do shit. Didn't have to lift a finger. The surfers are pawns doing all their work. Not saying that tube site owners didn't fill up their tube at the start with old purchased vids (that's easy and cheap to do).

But YES, those full length movies ARE uploaded by surfers. And the surfer forums are full of thousands and thousands of threads dedicated to particular websites and models. And each thread has thousands of links where each surfer has uploaded complete scenes AND members areas and he then gets "credit" on the surfer forum.

And those forums have more traffic than any affiliate or "legit" website that posts on GFY.

I'm just talking the FORUMS have that traffic. You can imagine the traffic at Rapidshare, TBP, etc. etc. not to mention the illegit tubes.

The surfer is being openly and blatantly EDUCATED to download and upload by those forum owners. They openly ENCOURAGE and REWARD them for doing it.

That's why I can't believe how goddamn dumb it is for Review Sites to not lift a finger and make any kind of effort to educate surfers to NOT steal.

But I guess everyone is going to find out for themselves as this next year rolls in. Hopefully the govt. will step in sometime and accidentally save the adult industry by enacting some kind of law. In the meantime...I'm protecting my content. And CM's sales and rebills are SLAMMING! Wish I could say the same for the hundreds of programs I am an affiliate of.

And one last thing....

I don't just talk shit. I back it up. ANYBODY in this business that is in Las Vegas or visiting Vegas or here for Internext...I will SHOW you my numbers in detail. I'm not just theorizing. I actually DO protect my content AND our CM is kicking the shit out of other paysites because of it.

But all I get on GFY is arguing from people trying to tell me that we are screwing our members. Well gee....you'd think they would all quit wouldn't you? Instead of writing to tell me how much they enjoy the latest scene.

You see, HONEST members of a website are there for ENTERTAINMENT. To jerk off. To live a fantasy. It's the dishonest ones that get "angry" when they can no longer steal your stuff.

But I'm sure that won't make any sense to anybody here. Just like when I said to the review sites: "How much value does a paysite have that has the ENTIRE MEMBERS AREA AVAILABLE FOR FREE"

Well I don't know how the fuck anybody can see the value of that other than ZERO.

But I got trolled hard for trying to do something from within our own industry. So fuck it. Let 'em all continue to lose sales and rebills. And yes...I KNOW they are. I promote 212 programs in Stats Remote and another 157 wrapped up in one big CC Bill account.

I SEE with my own eyes what is happening to all the paysites sales and rebills. Eric can vouch for how long I've been doing this too. I didn't just start yesterday. I'm talking from experience and knowledge.

And that is 2 things that seem to have no bearing on GFY

I honestly hope you don't stop talking or stop sharing your experience with us here on GFY, it's guys like you that have been here long enough to see the figures sway, that can lend credit to the fight of protecting our content.

I'm no ass kisser by any means, so those who may think that's going on here- WRONG!:1orglaugh
I'm saying quite honestly that experience is knowledge & knowledge is power, it's time to harness the strength of knowledge and come up with some solutions!!!

Maybe legislation will take a hand in this- I hope to God they do! Then the law is on our side here, but until that time, it's up to those working in the biz to make the nessisary steps.

Brian storming, networking, and seeing where everyone stands on these is the first step I think?

How great would it be, to implement a LIST of those who are AGAINST PORN THEFT!!!

I think it was Kelli who mentioned in another thread: to 'have a black list...'
And someone pointed out the troubles that could cause with false accusations and such- very rightly so too.

So what about taking the same situation and reversing it instead?

A 'White List' if you will,
-a list of those who are opposed to porn theft, and can prove through their business dealings, that they make that stand in all aspects.
-a list of who we can buy from, sell to, affiliate ourselves with & we know they are 'Pro-Industry Approved' (Pro: not meaning professional, but for the benefit of paid porn and our bottom line, if you know what I mean?)

There's a lot of ideas coming out on these boards, and yeah some are good, some are meh.. :Oh crap but the point is we're having them and making some sudgestions.

A thousand ideas may emmerce before the right one is born and implemented to our cause, but as log as we're having these discussions and haveing thoughts, even the stupid ones, we can voice our experiences and ideas to find that solution...

No Robbie, don't stop talking!
There are more people reading this and learning from you than are posting here, look at the views compared to the number of posts on the board, you ARE reaching people and making your point.

I'm sure there are many who agree, but haven't let their own voices be heard for their own reasons.
Even though this board is protected from 'public view' there are still those in the industry who can read it and snub others for their opinions- right?

Keep the peace, don't make waves, etc...

I'm sure that's what alot of people are thinking when they see this!
But you are reaching them!!!!

Robbie,

Your stance against the Review sites and the way you are protecting your content through streaming and lower bit rate downloadables I think are great. Could you possibly start a new thread in this section with these ideas to share with everyone. There are more people here looking than you know and many big boys that would surprise you.

I think it would be an amazing thread.

I know a lot more people are reading this, and all the other valuable threads, than are posting on the boards.

It would be interesting to see, if we made a poll re: "Where People Stand On this Topic" if we might actually get a bit more fed back?

The Anonnimity of polling, might just generate a bit more participation from some.
Just a thought?

Yeah, most of the videos are uploaded by surfers, for the example on hardsextube i have like 90% affiliate videos w/ short content, and like 10% user submitted shit. The problem is, people used to think that sites whose provide long content 10+ min for preview are have long videos. Long videos have much higher ctr around banners and links.

I am able to help you to send traffic to your paysite over 300x250 banners 700x100 banners and a text link. But our results says longer vids have higher CTR and much higher conversion rates. For short videos the ammount is matter. That is the problem. I hope you got it.

Also, we have content filtering system based on keywords. Tubes does not like stolen content as sponsors, but to be honest sponsors are still blind to see the opportunity what does 10+M views per month means on a gallery.

Lots of tubes does not allow free advertisements and thats leads to a bad karma.

Another secret i am going to revail here, paysites converts MUCH better than dating / cams on tubes .)

See you around, feel free to talk over icq, and no heat please, i still try to be a nice guy.

TY!

Does anyone really think that elected officials will lift a finger to help the Adult "Porn" industry? If anything, the elected officials will only create more laws to make it harder to operate a legit adult business as to make themselves look good.

Law enforcement agencies also will not be proactive on the issues either, given that they don't want to appear to be defending "pornographers and pornstars" and get their funding hacked.

Government is not the answer or can provide a solution to the problem. Have you not yet seen the film "The People vs. Larry Flynt"

Goverment is sitting back laughing at us because they don't need to lift a finger to put us out of business... we are doing it for them :disgust

Its kind of hard to post some of the stuff here as even though the forum is locked, the info that Robbie has and I have, and others have needs to stay close to the vest in some regards.

As far as the youtube thing I agree that would be great if adult tubes would do a similar thing. I have an account with youtube that I can get any video I hold copyright removed and usually its within minutes of me filing the action and done via an automated process. I had a bunch of our non nude content wind up there early on and youtube recommended I sign up for I guess you would call it a copyright holders account. I had to fax in some paperwork etc and I can get any video pulled I need pulled very quickly.


People focus on tube sites too much. While they are the most known sources right now there is so many other places stolen content is uploaded to and traded. The focus REALLY needs to be how we as an industry can pull back on the amount of free content we give away in a few different areas.

1. Promotion- Sponsors need to as a group begin to reign in the amount of content that is given out to affiliates. If you can't get a signup with 10 pics and a 2 min video then affiliates need to re-evaluate their sales techniques. Right now people are using the shotgun method. Throw as much out there as you can and hope it hits someone that might not care about spending a bit on porn. Sure would be easier to get a sale if there wasn't porn laying around for free in every nook and cranny of the internet.

2. Members areas- No one ever wanted to let the customer keep a scene for a membership rental price. It started and members became accustomed to it due to us not having the technology early on to stop them from keeping it. Somehow that became our "business model" and people stand by and defend it saying "the members are used to it". Thats poppycock and if they are conditioned to it, then we have to condition them to something else. Its make a change now, or watch the government come in and eventually regulate us all so the only ones hanging on still will be the big boys of porn and thats it.

Act now and act fast folks. There ARE ways to keep your content IN your members area without seriously affecting your customers viewing experience.

Thats why i dont allow preaproved accounts on oneclicktube.com except for the sponsors reps.

So how are we to act than?

I agree that things need to change & I'm looking into streaming videos for all of my projects, but the cost involved is incredable!!!
Not to mention the actual technical set up of it- like holy shit!!!

I looked into Adboe Flash Server, Wowza Media server, and all kinds of stuff... To get some one to set that up is gonna cost at least a grand, and to use it online, the same if not more:Oh crap

Streaming media is, I think, harder for people to download and steal right? But the cost! OMG!

Is there any cheaper way of doing these things?

Yes its not that expensive. There are other ways to do it that don't involve buying a media server. Working on getting some cheaper pricing "starter packages" for cdn setup by the hosting companies. Probably have some numbers next week on that.

OMG! That would be Awesome!!!!

In my Present financial situation, the cheaper, the better & free Would be GREAT:winkwink:
:1orglaugh

But seriously, I just uploaded a bunch of my own short clips to one of my websites using SWF & it takes them forever to load:disgust

I dunno about you, but when I want to get off, I don't wanna wait for it:winkwink::1orglaugh

I do have some great videos, but if they don't show quickly and clearly.... :mad: grrrrrrrrr......... :1orglaugh

Thnx for looking into it sticky:thumbsup

Streaming Media is easy to rip, and there are lots of applications now that will rip the content to the users selected file format with just a few clicks of a mouse.

DVD's with Macrovision and CSS are tougher to rip, more time consuming and require an investment in a DVD burner, software to rip and of course DVD media.

Blu-ray media right now is the toughest to rip. Most people don't have a blu-ray burner or the software to rip blu-rays. With Blu-ray you can put on a whole lot more DVD content or HD video as well. Going Blu-ray may be a way for a company to avoid having their content ripped off.

As a porn consumer I tend to go for two types of video. Jerk off stuff and fantasy stuff. The jerk off stuff I can find just about anywhere for free...winamp video, rude, the tons of tubesites out there and I am not too picky if it is low res and amateur in quality. However, the fantasy/adventure stuff I really want to have the experience so it has to be the highest quality in delivery and near perfect production values.

Please stop parroting that like everyone as it is not correct. There are ways to stop it.

Well said Robbie.

Tube8 can give you a producer account, and I heard some other tubes already have that too, but I'm not sure which ones and how to apply.

:winkwink:

Who has time to cruise tube sites looking for their content? That would be a full-time job.

I didn't see any response to this question. I am curious also ... Why aren't tube sites worried about 2257 ??? Just a short time ago, every adult webmaster was worried about complying with 2257 and bitching about it. Software was developed to catalog and organize 2257 documents and websites were developed to help producers be ready if the Feds came knocking. Now a few years later and the tubes are feeding all the content for free, no warning pages and no 2257 documentation ( same as the forums ). What changed? No one thinks the Feds will be investigating? Not enough convictions to scare anyone?

This has been covered a million times over the last couple of years but I'll give ya the short version:

User uploaded content is exempt from 2257

In my opinion 2257 is a stupidly written law to begin with that doesn't stop the perverts out there from shooting little children at all. But it sure does penalize honest people who aren't doing anything illegal. Sorta like most laws.

But to answer your question...there is a loophole that has constitutional questions regarding 2257 and user uploaded. So basically I can't put up a vid on my own site unless I have full documentation. But I can upload it to somebody else's site with none.

Yeah, it makes no sense. But that's the way it stands as of this moment.

Aaah, of course, always some fuckin' loophole.

I think you are correct in your approach Robbie. Have you ever considered offering a video hosting service with your secure method? For smaller content producers like us? We used the Windows secure streaming for 5 years, but it only slowed the theives down.

What I'm doing is so layered and customized that I wouldn't even know how to begin doing it for others. So much scripting and shit going on, and what I do works with my particular server setup running the different things we compiled. Not sure what would happen if it were setup different...might blow up? lol

I have seen that there is a version of Adobe Flash Media Server which supposedly can give the same results as what I'm doing. But the difference is I paid $999 for Adobe Flash Media Server and then completed all the other steps myself.

To get their version of it ready to go out of the box is a lot more expensive: http://www.adobe.com/products/flashmediainteractive/

Though it was around 10 grand a year ago, so it's come waaaayyyy down since then.

It's true that some things get uploaded to Youtube that could be content theft.

Youtube has a policy against porn. Still, I saw a hardcore porno once that was uploaded to Youtube. It was removed after a few days by the mods.