Why do paysites sell better without video previews?

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  • xenigo
    Confirmed User
    • Jan 2001
    • 8067
    #1

    Why do paysites sell better without video previews?

    I've been talking about this phenomenon and I'm trying to understand the psychology of the surfer in this regard. Why would a tour without a video preview (screen caps only) sell better than a tour with some really high quality video previews?

    I'm about to switch my tour over...
    Tags: None
    • AlCapone
      Confirmed User
      • Sep 2003
      • 708
      #2
      My guess is that they are showing hardcore. It doesn't take much for a surfer to unload. Lock the farm down and stop giving it away on the tour.
      "You can get more with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone.”

        Comment

        • Twig
          Confirmed User
          • Nov 2005
          • 1949
          #3
          Originally posted by AlCapone
          My guess is that they are showing hardcore. It doesn't take much for a surfer to unload. Lock the farm down and stop giving it away on the tour.
          Or stop allowing people to download your whole members area on a 3 day free trial and then upload it around the internet.

            Comment

            • Twig
              Confirmed User
              • Nov 2005
              • 1949
              #4
              oh btw, fantastic man to use as your internet identity. I often wish I could have been him.... up until the syphilis of course.

                Comment

                • stever
                  Confirmed User
                  • Jul 2005
                  • 1716
                  #5
                  most of the time trailers show too much
                  other times they suck and reveal to the surfer how worthless the scene is in the first place

                  so if this is the case by showing nothing you will have more curious people or more who may get tricked into buying

                  but I always found that if you have great scenes it is better to have video previews

                  btw what's your site? is it general hardcore? or something different?


                  Brutal Bucks has extreme sites that convert!

                    Comment

                    • burntfilm
                      Confirmed User
                      • Feb 2008
                      • 972
                      #6
                      Where are the stats on this? A lot of big programs have a ton of video on their tours as far as I've seen
                      Sorta...

                        Comment

                        • TheDoc
                          Too lazy to set a custom title
                          • Jul 2001
                          • 13827
                          #7
                          Many factors can change this... even down to the unique affiliates traffic source. In general, trailers or samples, will help conversions.

                          But assume the videos actually suck, it's just normal hardcore-amateur porn. Showing them a tease, may turn them off when pictures and wording, is all that was needed.

                          Most tours trailers don't match the video types / sizes / quality in the members area. The trailer undersells what the members actually get.

                          And also because of the above, different issues take place between trailers on the tour and member areas that run through a CMS.

                          And finally, speed... trailer sizes, tour server speeds, general loading times increased... can all be major factors in making it so non - trailer tours, work better.
                          Last edited by TheDoc; 09-25-2009, 01:42 PM.
                          ~TheDoc - ICQ7765825
                          It's all disambiguation

                            Comment

                            • xenigo
                              Confirmed User
                              • Jan 2001
                              • 8067
                              #8
                              Originally posted by TheDoc
                              Many factors can change this... even down to the unique affiliates traffic source. In general, trailers or samples, will help conversions.

                              But assume the videos actually suck, it's just normal hardcore-amateur porn. Showing them a tease, may turn them off when pictures and wording, is all that was needed.

                              Most tours trailers don't match the video types / sizes / quality in the members area. The trailer undersells what the members actually get.

                              And also because of the above, different issues take place between trailers on the tour and member areas that run through a CMS.

                              And finally, speed... trailer sizes, tour server speeds, general loading times increased... can all be major factors in making it so non - trailer tours, work better.
                              Interesting read. Want to tell me what you think of the video previews I've got up at GhettoThugs.com? I censored them as my initial intuition was to make them pay for what they want to see (the cock) and tease them by pixelating it, but honestly it seems to have had the opposite effect.

                              I'm trying to sort it all out now.

                                Comment

                                • xenigo
                                  Confirmed User
                                  • Jan 2001
                                  • 8067
                                  #9
                                  Originally posted by burntfilm
                                  Where are the stats on this? A lot of big programs have a ton of video on their tours as far as I've seen
                                  It might be a case of needing to sell the affiliate on promoting the program, versus actually benefiting conversion. I think a lot of webmasters have an idea of what they think will sell, and will be more inclined to promote what is in-line with their own perspective.

                                    Comment

                                    • DWB
                                      Registered User
                                      • Jul 2003
                                      • 31779
                                      #10
                                      My top converting sites have no trailers at all. Second in line only have 1 trailer. Sites with tons of trailers convert the worst for me.

                                        Comment

                                        • xenigo
                                          Confirmed User
                                          • Jan 2001
                                          • 8067
                                          #11
                                          Originally posted by DirtyWhiteBoy
                                          My top converting sites have no trailers at all. Second in line only have 1 trailer. Sites with tons of trailers convert the worst for me.
                                          I think that's the problem with my site at the moment. I'm taking the previews down and re-designing the model's landing pages.

                                            Comment

                                            • TheDoc
                                              Too lazy to set a custom title
                                              • Jul 2001
                                              • 13827
                                              #12
                                              Originally posted by xenigo
                                              Interesting read. Want to tell me what you think of the video previews I've got up at GhettoThugs.com? I censored them as my initial intuition was to make them pay for what they want to see (the cock) and tease them by pixelating it, but honestly it seems to have had the opposite effect.

                                              I'm trying to sort it all out now.
                                              Well, that was interesting..

                                              I have to admit, a straight guy looking at that, I wasn't turned on.. hahaha.

                                              I ran a amateur boob site, no hardcore.. that's a hard sell as well. My advice would be, don't over think it and build 3-5 different versions of the tour, with various features. Then let your Affiliates choose and you find the sources that works best for each tour.

                                              After several months, you will learn the key points from split testing various tours and might be able to build a master tour.
                                              ~TheDoc - ICQ7765825
                                              It's all disambiguation

                                                Comment

                                                • harvey
                                                  Confirmed User
                                                  • Jul 2001
                                                  • 9266
                                                  #13
                                                  simply because you're playing with surfer's fantasy. When you show screencaps the viewer will try to connect the screencaps to a story or fantasy, which will be always pleasant. It's known as "law of closure", a basic principle of the Gestalt psychology theory: you try to complete the elements that are missing. In this case, the story going behind the pictures, the sex scene, the moaning, the screaming, whatever.

                                                  In a video, that fantasy is turned off and you see what it really is, and no matter what, it will always be worst than your ideal scene. That's why no preview tours works better than preview tours. Personally, I never, ever, ever saw a tour with previews converting better than a tour for the same site with no previews. If you choose the correct thumbs and screencaps (that means: following a logical story), your conversions can be 10x better easily. Of course, this alone won't guarantee success, there are many elements to keep in mind, but it's something to keep in mind nevertheless

                                                  This being said, I'm always asked to do tours with video previews. And I always tell people what I said above, but well, 90% of webmasters prefers preview no matter what, so I have to include previews. Plus, most webmasters don't use/like alternative testing tours, when you could easily have exactly the same tour, one with previews, one with the same preview going to join page. As easy as that.

                                                  Finally, we have the join page. If you're weak on your tour, you better have an amazing join page to balance the leaks in the tour.

                                                  For most adult webmasters, join page is an end instead of another step, namely, the most important of all the pages. So you see join pages which are just form holders, or a form and some screencaps. With that, you already cut at least 50% of sales. Period. When you see 100 people hit the join page (talking about tours with no blind links to join, ie tours with previews) and it converted to 1 or 2 sales, then you know something is extremely wrong. Either the program is shaving like mad, either the join page is a failure by definition. However, I rarely saw any webmaster worried about the most important page in the site. Gee, I've saw people more interested in warning pages than join pages (for real)
                                                  This post is endorsed by CIA, KGB, MI6, the Mafia, Illuminati, Kim Jong Il, Worldwide Ninjas Association, Klingon Empire and lolcats. Don't mess around with it, just accept it and embrace the truth

                                                    Comment

                                                    • xenigo
                                                      Confirmed User
                                                      • Jan 2001
                                                      • 8067
                                                      #14
                                                      Fantastic post Harvey. Thank you.

                                                        Comment

                                                        • andrej_NDC
                                                          Registered User
                                                          • May 2004
                                                          • 7760
                                                          #15
                                                          I'm glad I could help.

                                                            Comment

                                                            • After Shock Media
                                                              It's coming look busy
                                                              • Mar 2001
                                                              • 35299
                                                              #16
                                                              Think it really depends and honestly most of us do not spend what we should on our trailers. If your going to use them you better spend top dollar getting them edited and composed.

                                                              Big example would be when collegefuckfest came out. The trailers made that site. Also pretty damn sure redshoe did them.

                                                              [email protected] ICQ:135982156 AIM: Aftershockmed1a MSN: [email protected]

                                                                Comment

                                                                • xenigo
                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                  • Jan 2001
                                                                  • 8067
                                                                  #17
                                                                  Originally posted by andrej_NDC
                                                                  I'm glad I could help.
                                                                  Thanks for the suggestion.

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • D Ghost
                                                                      null
                                                                      • May 2006
                                                                      • 9819
                                                                      #18
                                                                      Some good info ITT

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • andrej_NDC
                                                                          Registered User
                                                                          • May 2004
                                                                          • 7760
                                                                          #19
                                                                          Originally posted by After Shock Media
                                                                          Think it really depends and honestly most of us do not spend what we should on our trailers. If your going to use them you better spend top dollar getting them edited and composed.

                                                                          Big example would be when collegefuckfest came out. The trailers made that site. Also pretty damn sure redshoe did them.
                                                                          Man, I had trailers once looking like hollywood ones. I compared them to the simplest ones I could make, 15 secons long, 5 seconds for each "position". And the result? The same, no difference in ratios whatsoever. Removing trailers totally helped instantly.

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • NetHorse
                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                              • Dec 2006
                                                                              • 3526
                                                                              #20
                                                                              Some interesting points brought up in this thread. I'm gonna remove video trailers for a couple weeks and see how it effects ratios.
                                                                              ┌∩┐(◣_◢)┌∩┐
                                                                              ICQ # 427013273

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • Barefootsies
                                                                                  Choice is an Illusion
                                                                                  • Feb 2005
                                                                                  • 42635
                                                                                  #21
                                                                                  It depends on the presentation.

                                                                                  For example, my tube pay site hybrid. The 30 second teaser is wonderful. They watch the teaser, and if they wanna sign up. They are already at the site. They just need to pay, and BAM full length. Plus they can see what they are getting for their money. Not the usual rip off pay sites with 50 scenes and never updated.

                                                                                  However, on the old style tour and pay site model. Not so much so. Robbie had a very intelligent, details, summation on this he posted some time ago. You may wanna look that up.
                                                                                  Should You Email Your Members?

                                                                                  Link1 | Link2 | Link3

                                                                                  Enough Said.

                                                                                  "Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                    • alan-l
                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                      • May 2003
                                                                                      • 2477
                                                                                      #22
                                                                                      Originally posted by harvey
                                                                                      simply because you're playing with surfer's fantasy. When you show screencaps the viewer will try to connect the screencaps to a story or fantasy, which will be always pleasant. It's known as "law of closure", a basic principle of the Gestalt psychology theory: you try to complete the elements that are missing. In this case, the story going behind the pictures, the sex scene, the moaning, the screaming, whatever.

                                                                                      In a video, that fantasy is turned off and you see what it really is, and no matter what, it will always be worst than your ideal scene. That's why no preview tours works better than preview tours. Personally, I never, ever, ever saw a tour with previews converting better than a tour for the same site with no previews. If you choose the correct thumbs and screencaps (that means: following a logical story), your conversions can be 10x better easily. Of course, this alone won't guarantee success, there are many elements to keep in mind, but it's something to keep in mind nevertheless

                                                                                      This being said, I'm always asked to do tours with video previews. And I always tell people what I said above, but well, 90% of webmasters prefers preview no matter what, so I have to include previews. Plus, most webmasters don't use/like alternative testing tours, when you could easily have exactly the same tour, one with previews, one with the same preview going to join page. As easy as that.

                                                                                      Finally, we have the join page. If you're weak on your tour, you better have an amazing join page to balance the leaks in the tour.

                                                                                      For most adult webmasters, join page is an end instead of another step, namely, the most important of all the pages. So you see join pages which are just form holders, or a form and some screencaps. With that, you already cut at least 50% of sales. Period. When you see 100 people hit the join page (talking about tours with no blind links to join, ie tours with previews) and it converted to 1 or 2 sales, then you know something is extremely wrong. Either the program is shaving like mad, either the join page is a failure by definition. However, I rarely saw any webmaster worried about the most important page in the site. Gee, I've saw people more interested in warning pages than join pages (for real)
                                                                                      amazing post as usual

                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                        • RyanKeely
                                                                                          Registered User
                                                                                          • Apr 2008
                                                                                          • 4
                                                                                          #23
                                                                                          I thought about adding a video to the tour of my solo girl site, but I've got great conversion so why fuck with a good thing? We've all seen great tours where the girl comes across as annoying or non-sexual in her tour vid. My favorite terrible tour video here -> at anitablue dot com [cant post real link because i'm n00b]
                                                                                          RyanKeely.com
                                                                                          RyanKeelyCash.com

                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                            • AlphaSky
                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                              • Aug 2008
                                                                                              • 1013
                                                                                              #24
                                                                                              Originally posted by harvey
                                                                                              simply because you're playing with surfer's fantasy. When you show screencaps the viewer will try to connect the screencaps to a story or fantasy, which will be always pleasant. It's known as "law of closure", a basic principle of the Gestalt psychology theory: you try to complete the elements that are missing. In this case, the story going behind the pictures, the sex scene, the moaning, the screaming, whatever.

                                                                                              In a video, that fantasy is turned off and you see what it really is, and no matter what, it will always be worst than your ideal scene. That's why no preview tours works better than preview tours. Personally, I never, ever, ever saw a tour with previews converting better than a tour for the same site with no previews. If you choose the correct thumbs and screencaps (that means: following a logical story), your conversions can be 10x better easily. Of course, this alone won't guarantee success, there are many elements to keep in mind, but it's something to keep in mind nevertheless

                                                                                              This being said, I'm always asked to do tours with video previews. And I always tell people what I said above, but well, 90% of webmasters prefers preview no matter what, so I have to include previews. Plus, most webmasters don't use/like alternative testing tours, when you could easily have exactly the same tour, one with previews, one with the same preview going to join page. As easy as that.

                                                                                              Finally, we have the join page. If you're weak on your tour, you better have an amazing join page to balance the leaks in the tour.

                                                                                              For most adult webmasters, join page is an end instead of another step, namely, the most important of all the pages. So you see join pages which are just form holders, or a form and some screencaps. With that, you already cut at least 50% of sales. Period. When you see 100 people hit the join page (talking about tours with no blind links to join, ie tours with previews) and it converted to 1 or 2 sales, then you know something is extremely wrong. Either the program is shaving like mad, either the join page is a failure by definition. However, I rarely saw any webmaster worried about the most important page in the site. Gee, I've saw people more interested in warning pages than join pages (for real)
                                                                                              Hi Harvey, you really know your stuff. Great advice. If you have time, could you check out our tours and tell us what you think of our teaser clips?

                                                                                              On our first site, http://www.theappletwins.com we have one teaser trailer hooked up, and then, when they click on the 2nd one, it brings them to the join page. The first trailer is weak, simple playboy style footage. I agree with your idea of no trailers at all, because it let's the imagination run wild, but we're still 50/50 on removing it. I think sometimes people want to see "something" to help them decide. But maybe not in our case?

                                                                                              On our 2nd site, same set up, http://www.thejolietwins.com , the trailer teaser is a little more wild, gets better at the end, so I think this trailer is more effective. I was thinking maybe to leave that one in and just pull the Apple teaser?? The apples have a nice kiss at the end, but what do you think?
                                                                                              Pull 'em both and the let the consumer's mind go wild, or leave them to let the consumer know what's inside?

                                                                                              Thanks for your time,
                                                                                              Leslie

                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                • EscortBiz
                                                                                                  Fuck Checks, CASH only!
                                                                                                  • May 2002
                                                                                                  • 19422
                                                                                                  #25
                                                                                                  good stuff harvey, a while ago i made the post below on this very topic, it was a reply to a thread BVF started

                                                                                                  First let me start off by saying that I base my things on actual trial and error using mega amounts of traffic, I dont just post what I assume, so for those who plan on debating me please be someone who tried both ways vs just posting what you think should or shouldn’t work.

                                                                                                  First off common sense would tell you that by adding a trailer, a good one obviously, that shows just enough to really tease should increase signups, well that’s exactly what I thought, I went ahead and started to get good trailers made up for all my sets.

                                                                                                  Back when I started the idea of adding flash to a tour would be laughed at simply because of the load time it would take, I mean back then I would offer the members a 56k version of the movie to download.

                                                                                                  So now that the speed issue is gone and flash can run on most computers I figured im about to really see my signups go thru the roof once im done redoing my tours with the trailers.

                                                                                                  I did the same thing for my pay per view site, created trailers for each and every movie.

                                                                                                  Once things where live there was a really noticeable drop in signups, I seriously was shocked, then I noticed a pattern that all the sites I push with trailers on the tour convert worse then those with just photos.

                                                                                                  Now I can sit here and speculate why exactly this may be but here is what we have to remember, lets picture a surfer at his computer surfing porn.

                                                                                                  Here is this guy sitting at his computer, here is the avg persons setup.

                                                                                                  Has a cell phone next to him
                                                                                                  Has at least one sort of Instant messaging app open (AIM YAHOO SKYPE ETC.)
                                                                                                  Has some sort of email open, yahoo, hotmail, aol (aol software)
                                                                                                  Has his myspace, facebook, twitter, youtube minimized as well

                                                                                                  And now with all the above he made it to your site, maybe he found you on google maybe he found you on some TGP etc.

                                                                                                  The more you let him browse around your site, figure the avg user will play 8 of your 30 second trailers, that’s 4 minutes right there + (sounds like a little time but it’s a long time), think about what can happen during this time to distract him? He can get a text, he can get a notice that he got a new mail now hes responding, maybe his phone rings, maybe he got a new message on myspace.

                                                                                                  Think about yourself, how many times where you at a site putting to together a order of books or videos or clothing and then the next day you remind yourself you never ended checking out? Why? Because you got distracted, maybe you got an email, maybe you went to check out another site real quick and got distracted, maybe your browser crashed whatever.

                                                                                                  My advice to anyone would be to do a test for a few days compare numbers, compare in google tracking the bounce rate etc.

                                                                                                  Spanking, Medical Fetish, Sleeping, Strap-on Anal Lesbians, Girls Fucking Guys, Handjob site REAL HOT, Shemales, Anal and Ass Licking sites 100% Real EXCLUSIVE with amazing retention, ccbill payouts, lots of content FREE FTP HOSTING

                                                                                                  Promote the largest and oldest member paid escort site, Converts 10 times better then any dating site, CCBill payouts

                                                                                                  ICQ# 158802076

                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                    • SykkBoy2
                                                                                                      Jesus loves bacon
                                                                                                      • Feb 2001
                                                                                                      • 19969
                                                                                                      #26
                                                                                                      Originally posted by EscortBiz
                                                                                                      good stuff harvey, a while ago i made the post below on this very topic, it was a reply to a thread BVF started

                                                                                                      First let me start off by saying that I base my things on actual trial and error using mega amounts of traffic, I dont just post what I assume, so for those who plan on debating me please be someone who tried both ways vs just posting what you think should or shouldn?t work.

                                                                                                      First off common sense would tell you that by adding a trailer, a good one obviously, that shows just enough to really tease should increase signups, well that?s exactly what I thought, I went ahead and started to get good trailers made up for all my sets.

                                                                                                      Back when I started the idea of adding flash to a tour would be laughed at simply because of the load time it would take, I mean back then I would offer the members a 56k version of the movie to download.

                                                                                                      So now that the speed issue is gone and flash can run on most computers I figured im about to really see my signups go thru the roof once im done redoing my tours with the trailers.

                                                                                                      I did the same thing for my pay per view site, created trailers for each and every movie.

                                                                                                      Once things where live there was a really noticeable drop in signups, I seriously was shocked, then I noticed a pattern that all the sites I push with trailers on the tour convert worse then those with just photos.

                                                                                                      Now I can sit here and speculate why exactly this may be but here is what we have to remember, lets picture a surfer at his computer surfing porn.

                                                                                                      Here is this guy sitting at his computer, here is the avg persons setup.

                                                                                                      Has a cell phone next to him
                                                                                                      Has at least one sort of Instant messaging app open (AIM YAHOO SKYPE ETC.)
                                                                                                      Has some sort of email open, yahoo, hotmail, aol (aol software)
                                                                                                      Has his myspace, facebook, twitter, youtube minimized as well

                                                                                                      And now with all the above he made it to your site, maybe he found you on google maybe he found you on some TGP etc.

                                                                                                      The more you let him browse around your site, figure the avg user will play 8 of your 30 second trailers, that?s 4 minutes right there + (sounds like a little time but it?s a long time), think about what can happen during this time to distract him? He can get a text, he can get a notice that he got a new mail now hes responding, maybe his phone rings, maybe he got a new message on myspace.

                                                                                                      Think about yourself, how many times where you at a site putting to together a order of books or videos or clothing and then the next day you remind yourself you never ended checking out? Why? Because you got distracted, maybe you got an email, maybe you went to check out another site real quick and got distracted, maybe your browser crashed whatever.

                                                                                                      My advice to anyone would be to do a test for a few days compare numbers, compare in google tracking the bounce rate etc.
                                                                                                      great post!

                                                                                                      too often in this business we think like webmasters/designers/builders and NOT like surfers....surfers these days have more choices, more distractions, tabbed browsers, etc. No one seems to be taking this into account...nothing much has changed...the standard tour format hasn't been changed/updated to take new changes into consideration in YEARS.

                                                                                                      I'm working on some new things that will change along with current trends and technologies...this thread plus years of research is telling me I'm on the right track with what I'm doing...
                                                                                                      Support my new movie “The Second Coming”

                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                        • harvey
                                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                                          • Jul 2001
                                                                                                          • 9266
                                                                                                          #27
                                                                                                          Originally posted by AlphaSky
                                                                                                          Hi Harvey, you really know your stuff. Great advice. If you have time, could you check out our tours and tell us what you think of our teaser clips?

                                                                                                          On our first site, http://www.theappletwins.com we have one teaser trailer hooked up, and then, when they click on the 2nd one, it brings them to the join page. The first trailer is weak, simple playboy style footage. I agree with your idea of no trailers at all, because it let's the imagination run wild, but we're still 50/50 on removing it. I think sometimes people want to see "something" to help them decide. But maybe not in our case?

                                                                                                          On our 2nd site, same set up, http://www.thejolietwins.com , the trailer teaser is a little more wild, gets better at the end, so I think this trailer is more effective. I was thinking maybe to leave that one in and just pull the Apple teaser?? The apples have a nice kiss at the end, but what do you think?
                                                                                                          Pull 'em both and the let the consumer's mind go wild, or leave them to let the consumer know what's inside?

                                                                                                          Thanks for your time,
                                                                                                          Leslie
                                                                                                          Well, regarding Apple Twins, I think you're quite on track with that tour, although it's really ugly from a design POV (no offense) it's really catering to amateur audience. I'd just take off the big splash pics on the pictures page (those 4 vertical pictures) or make it way smaller. You'd even put the logo over the pics to save space, but that black part is the most important. Add some real text instead of images (for SEO purposes) and the amount of pics for each of those sets. Open the samples on a preview page instead of a jpg and include calls to action. Something simple like a logo, picture sample and join now link will be enough. Get the bottom row of 4 pics off, you need people to join and that's where the page ends. And finally, get rid of that "See our new pictorial" button since it's outdated and you're giving the message that you don't care enough

                                                                                                          Video page: I don't see the trailer at all, dunno if you removed it, otherwise, I see no point in adding something that is hard to find anyway. The best element of the page (which, honestly, is quite good) is the content of that iframe... however, it's so small and with a scroll bar that once I paid close attention I realized it was there. Again, what's the point? Just remove the 2 rows of pics and include that iframe at the top or right below the black header. Just to be clear: the "added" text over the thumbs is what makes teh difference.

                                                                                                          Join page: get rid of the top thumbs or make it smaller and with more thumbs. Everything else is perfect

                                                                                                          about Jolie twins, more or less the same, just be sure to make the header way smaller in height and in video page I'd replace that upper area with the photos with the content of the iframe and that's it. No previews (they load really slow, by the time they finish you lost the surfer, like EscortBiz said)
                                                                                                          This post is endorsed by CIA, KGB, MI6, the Mafia, Illuminati, Kim Jong Il, Worldwide Ninjas Association, Klingon Empire and lolcats. Don't mess around with it, just accept it and embrace the truth

                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                            • harvey
                                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                                              • Jul 2001
                                                                                                              • 9266
                                                                                                              #28
                                                                                                              Originally posted by EscortBiz
                                                                                                              good stuff harvey, a while ago i made the post below on this very topic, it was a reply to a thread BVF started

                                                                                                              First let me start off by saying that I base my things on actual trial and error using mega amounts of traffic, I dont just post what I assume, so for those who plan on debating me please be someone who tried both ways vs just posting what you think should or shouldn?t work.

                                                                                                              First off common sense would tell you that by adding a trailer, a good one obviously, that shows just enough to really tease should increase signups, well that?s exactly what I thought, I went ahead and started to get good trailers made up for all my sets.

                                                                                                              Back when I started the idea of adding flash to a tour would be laughed at simply because of the load time it would take, I mean back then I would offer the members a 56k version of the movie to download.

                                                                                                              So now that the speed issue is gone and flash can run on most computers I figured im about to really see my signups go thru the roof once im done redoing my tours with the trailers.

                                                                                                              I did the same thing for my pay per view site, created trailers for each and every movie.

                                                                                                              Once things where live there was a really noticeable drop in signups, I seriously was shocked, then I noticed a pattern that all the sites I push with trailers on the tour convert worse then those with just photos.

                                                                                                              Now I can sit here and speculate why exactly this may be but here is what we have to remember, lets picture a surfer at his computer surfing porn.

                                                                                                              Here is this guy sitting at his computer, here is the avg persons setup.

                                                                                                              Has a cell phone next to him
                                                                                                              Has at least one sort of Instant messaging app open (AIM YAHOO SKYPE ETC.)
                                                                                                              Has some sort of email open, yahoo, hotmail, aol (aol software)
                                                                                                              Has his myspace, facebook, twitter, youtube minimized as well

                                                                                                              And now with all the above he made it to your site, maybe he found you on google maybe he found you on some TGP etc.

                                                                                                              The more you let him browse around your site, figure the avg user will play 8 of your 30 second trailers, that?s 4 minutes right there + (sounds like a little time but it?s a long time), think about what can happen during this time to distract him? He can get a text, he can get a notice that he got a new mail now hes responding, maybe his phone rings, maybe he got a new message on myspace.

                                                                                                              Think about yourself, how many times where you at a site putting to together a order of books or videos or clothing and then the next day you remind yourself you never ended checking out? Why? Because you got distracted, maybe you got an email, maybe you went to check out another site real quick and got distracted, maybe your browser crashed whatever.

                                                                                                              My advice to anyone would be to do a test for a few days compare numbers, compare in google tracking the bounce rate etc.

                                                                                                              I agree with everything you say. And as you may imagine, I also tested my ass off to come to these conclusions.

                                                                                                              I'd like to stress the point of distractions, it's one of my eternal discussions with some clients. In marketing there's something called the "15 seconds rule": if you didn't make an impression in the first 15 seconds (good, bad, shocking, whatever) you'll probably lost the sale. There have been hundreds of studies on this, and all of them came to that conclusion. Even worse: latest trends (2008/09 researches) shows that span window is narrowing to less than 10 seconds. For those that aren't getting it: your mega cool supadupa header anim, your incredibly hot HD video in real size that takes 5 minutes to download, your page with 20 episodes per page... are killing your site, and therefore, your income.
                                                                                                              This post is endorsed by CIA, KGB, MI6, the Mafia, Illuminati, Kim Jong Il, Worldwide Ninjas Association, Klingon Empire and lolcats. Don't mess around with it, just accept it and embrace the truth

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                                                                                                                • Riffhard
                                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                                  • Jul 2009
                                                                                                                  • 659
                                                                                                                  #29
                                                                                                                  I think what also has a big effect is what exactly you're showing in your trailer. The trailers imo should only show the quality of the videos and hotness of the girls. I visited a facial site one time, forgot which one, but they actually showed the full facial in their trailer. Why would the surfer sign up when the very thing he's looking for is shown in the trailer?
                                                                                                                  Glad to be here. Glad to be anywhere.

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                                                                                                                    • AlphaSky
                                                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                                                      • Aug 2008
                                                                                                                      • 1013
                                                                                                                      #30
                                                                                                                      Originally posted by harvey
                                                                                                                      Well, regarding Apple Twins, I think you're quite on track with that tour, although it's really ugly from a design POV (no offense) it's really catering to amateur audience. I'd just take off the big splash pics on the pictures page (those 4 vertical pictures) or make it way smaller. You'd even put the logo over the pics to save space, but that black part is the most important. Add some real text instead of images (for SEO purposes) and the amount of pics for each of those sets. Open the samples on a preview page instead of a jpg and include calls to action. Something simple like a logo, picture sample and join now link will be enough. Get the bottom row of 4 pics off, you need people to join and that's where the page ends. And finally, get rid of that "See our new pictorial" button since it's outdated and you're giving the message that you don't care enough

                                                                                                                      Video page: I don't see the trailer at all, dunno if you removed it, otherwise, I see no point in adding something that is hard to find anyway. The best element of the page (which, honestly, is quite good) is the content of that iframe... however, it's so small and with a scroll bar that once I paid close attention I realized it was there. Again, what's the point? Just remove the 2 rows of pics and include that iframe at the top or right below the black header. Just to be clear: the "added" text over the thumbs is what makes teh difference.

                                                                                                                      Join page: get rid of the top thumbs or make it smaller and with more thumbs. Everything else is perfect

                                                                                                                      about Jolie twins, more or less the same, just be sure to make the header way smaller in height and in video page I'd replace that upper area with the photos with the content of the iframe and that's it. No previews (they load really slow, by the time they finish you lost the surfer, like EscortBiz said)
                                                                                                                      Thank you Harvy, excellent notes and comments. Just before you visited the Apple site, we went ahead and pulled the free trailer. We will review all your notes.

                                                                                                                      So you think we should pull that free Jolie video as well? We thought it was hot at the end, with the little mini previews of some lusty scenes... I'm still 50/50 on it. But you say it loads slow as well, and that slowness is bad for the surfer... I agree there. Keep the surfer moving to the join page.

                                                                                                                      Thank you again for the great notes!
                                                                                                                      L

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                                                                                                                        • moviebiz
                                                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                                                          • Nov 2006
                                                                                                                          • 172
                                                                                                                          #31
                                                                                                                          We removed all trailers 2 days ago from our paysite for test for one week. Will see how its going. For weekend stats (2 days without a trailers) we detect lower sales then in previous weekend(with trailers).
                                                                                                                          Cars and Girls
                                                                                                                          First anal
                                                                                                                          Interactive castings
                                                                                                                          Wanted GirlFriends

                                                                                                                          Easy Teen $$$Money$$$ Here

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                                                                                                                            • jact
                                                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                                                              • Sep 2002
                                                                                                                              • 9134
                                                                                                                              #32
                                                                                                                              Originally posted by moviebiz
                                                                                                                              We removed all trailers 2 days ago from our paysite for test for one week. Will see how its going. For weekend stats (2 days without a trailers) we detect lower sales then in previous weekend(with trailers).
                                                                                                                              To facilitate proper testing you need to be doing A/B testing during the same timeframe with the same traffic sources. Pulling trailers for a week will tell you something, but will not tell you anything scientifically. Too many variables can change hour to hour, day to day, week to week.
                                                                                                                              Free agent

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                                                                                                                                • BFT3K
                                                                                                                                  Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                                  • Dec 2005
                                                                                                                                  • 10764
                                                                                                                                  #33
                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by harvey
                                                                                                                                  simply because you're playing with surfer's fantasy. When you show screencaps the viewer will try to connect the screencaps to a story or fantasy, which will be always pleasant. It's known as "law of closure", a basic principle of the Gestalt psychology theory: you try to complete the elements that are missing. In this case, the story going behind the pictures, the sex scene, the moaning, the screaming, whatever.

                                                                                                                                  In a video, that fantasy is turned off and you see what it really is, and no matter what, it will always be worst than your ideal scene. That's why no preview tours works better than preview tours. Personally, I never, ever, ever saw a tour with previews converting better than a tour for the same site with no previews. If you choose the correct thumbs and screencaps (that means: following a logical story), your conversions can be 10x better easily. Of course, this alone won't guarantee success, there are many elements to keep in mind, but it's something to keep in mind nevertheless

                                                                                                                                  This being said, I'm always asked to do tours with video previews. And I always tell people what I said above, but well, 90% of webmasters prefers preview no matter what, so I have to include previews. Plus, most webmasters don't use/like alternative testing tours, when you could easily have exactly the same tour, one with previews, one with the same preview going to join page. As easy as that.

                                                                                                                                  Finally, we have the join page. If you're weak on your tour, you better have an amazing join page to balance the leaks in the tour.

                                                                                                                                  For most adult webmasters, join page is an end instead of another step, namely, the most important of all the pages. So you see join pages which are just form holders, or a form and some screencaps. With that, you already cut at least 50% of sales. Period. When you see 100 people hit the join page (talking about tours with no blind links to join, ie tours with previews) and it converted to 1 or 2 sales, then you know something is extremely wrong. Either the program is shaving like mad, either the join page is a failure by definition. However, I rarely saw any webmaster worried about the most important page in the site. Gee, I've saw people more interested in warning pages than join pages (for real)
                                                                                                                                  Nice info Harvey! Thanks for taking the time.

                                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                                    • VisionFantasy
                                                                                                                                      So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                                                      • Sep 2009
                                                                                                                                      • 168
                                                                                                                                      #34
                                                                                                                                      I agree! I will not show cum shots in my tours.

                                                                                                                                      Most of the boy/girl sites show girls in clothes, girl naked, girl sucking the dick, girl getting fucked, then the guy cums on her face.
                                                                                                                                      Its all over I have seen it all in the tour for FREE! Why and the hell should I join?

                                                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                                                        • moviebiz
                                                                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                          • Nov 2006
                                                                                                                                          • 172
                                                                                                                                          #35
                                                                                                                                          Originally posted by jact
                                                                                                                                          Too many variables can change hour to hour, day to day, week to week.
                                                                                                                                          ... month to month, year to year lol
                                                                                                                                          Testing timeframe depends of #of sales/day and #of billing's in cascade (IMO)
                                                                                                                                          Sites doing 1 sale/day(1 billing in cascade) and sites doing 100 sales/day(3-4 billings in cascade) must be tested in different timeframes.
                                                                                                                                          Last edited by moviebiz; 09-28-2009, 10:20 PM.
                                                                                                                                          Cars and Girls
                                                                                                                                          First anal
                                                                                                                                          Interactive castings
                                                                                                                                          Wanted GirlFriends

                                                                                                                                          Easy Teen $$$Money$$$ Here

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                                                                                                                                            • jact
                                                                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                              • Sep 2002
                                                                                                                                              • 9134
                                                                                                                                              #36
                                                                                                                                              Originally posted by moviebiz
                                                                                                                                              ... month to month, year to year lol
                                                                                                                                              Testing timeframe depends of #of sales/day and #of billing's in cascade (IMO)
                                                                                                                                              Sites doing 1 sale/day(1 billing in cascade) and sites doing 100 sales/day(3-4 billings in cascade) must be tested in different timeframes.
                                                                                                                                              If someone's testing across months or years, there's issues
                                                                                                                                              Free agent

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                                                                                                                                                • harvey
                                                                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                  • Jul 2001
                                                                                                                                                  • 9266
                                                                                                                                                  #37
                                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by moviebiz
                                                                                                                                                  ... month to month, year to year lol
                                                                                                                                                  Testing timeframe depends of #of sales/day and #of billing's in cascade (IMO)
                                                                                                                                                  Sites doing 1 sale/day(1 billing in cascade) and sites doing 100 sales/day(3-4 billings in cascade) must be tested in different timeframes.
                                                                                                                                                  wrong. although there's not a single formula, but many different formulas depending on variables, the whole idea of split A/B testing in online business is to work with short time spans, usually no longer than 2 months or year quarters (ie seasonal variations, holidays, etc). Online business has an extremely high development ratio and what was good 1 year ago may not be the same today. Think about the tubes scenario, would you say business is the same today than 1 year ago? let alone 2 years ago or more.

                                                                                                                                                  Someone could say "well, look at The Hun with the same design for years" and it's right, once you find something that works, you'll try to stick to it. Nevertheless, The Hun lost almost 50% of its traffic from 1 year ago to day.

                                                                                                                                                  about variables, the "trailer/no trailer" is just one of many. You can use color, style, navigation, layout, amount of content, type of content, shapes, sizes, whatever. All of them will affect the outcome in one or another way, some will have a bigger impact than others (color, text and content type are usually the most important ones) but all of them will have some sort of impact, and that's why A/B testing is needed (I prefer A/B/C to the very least, with C being a combination of A and B)

                                                                                                                                                  and finally, a little secret: EYES. any good designer or marketing person will know the power of eyes in a picture and also adapt it to the design needs. Most of the times designers should change them with something as little as 1px variation, but the results are always outstanding
                                                                                                                                                  This post is endorsed by CIA, KGB, MI6, the Mafia, Illuminati, Kim Jong Il, Worldwide Ninjas Association, Klingon Empire and lolcats. Don't mess around with it, just accept it and embrace the truth

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                                                                                                                                                    • Elli
                                                                                                                                                      Reach for those stars!
                                                                                                                                                      • Apr 2003
                                                                                                                                                      • 17991
                                                                                                                                                      #38
                                                                                                                                                      Excellent analysis and input so far!

                                                                                                                                                      I have to add that I've experienced the opposite: if I post a new video to ElliNude.com, the ones I post with trailers/samples sell far better than ones without the samples. Maybe people aren't sure what quality to expect, or something. I don't give away the "good stuff" in the trailer, though, and I censor anything hardcore (genitals, etc). Maybe the censor blocks work like for GGW? Who knows? that's been my experience, at least.
                                                                                                                                                      email: [email protected]

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                                                                                                                                                        • Titan
                                                                                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                          • Jun 2002
                                                                                                                                                          • 994
                                                                                                                                                          #39
                                                                                                                                                          I think maybe crap trailers kill ur ratios and good trailers help a bit.
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                                                                                                                                                            • andrej_NDC
                                                                                                                                                              Registered User
                                                                                                                                                              • May 2004
                                                                                                                                                              • 7760
                                                                                                                                                              #40
                                                                                                                                                              Originally posted by Titan
                                                                                                                                                              I think maybe crap trailers kill ur ratios and good trailers help a bit.
                                                                                                                                                              Surely good trailers help the surfer to jerk off even faster...

                                                                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                                                                • BFT3K
                                                                                                                                                                  Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                                                                  • Dec 2005
                                                                                                                                                                  • 10764
                                                                                                                                                                  #41
                                                                                                                                                                  I just uploaded a "No Preview" version of BoobieMovies.com...

                                                                                                                                                                  http://www.BoobieMovies.com/Big-Boun.../windex01.html

                                                                                                                                                                  I'll come back with sales results at the end of October (one month).

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                                                                                                                                                                    • burntfilm
                                                                                                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                      • Feb 2008
                                                                                                                                                                      • 972
                                                                                                                                                                      #42
                                                                                                                                                                      Originally posted by xenigo
                                                                                                                                                                      It might be a case of needing to sell the affiliate on promoting the program, versus actually benefiting conversion. I think a lot of webmasters have an idea of what they think will sell, and will be more inclined to promote what is in-line with their own perspective.
                                                                                                                                                                      I see your point, I've definitely experienced this.
                                                                                                                                                                      Sorta...

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                                                                                                                                                                        • cLin
                                                                                                                                                                          Registered User
                                                                                                                                                                          • May 2009
                                                                                                                                                                          • 94
                                                                                                                                                                          #43
                                                                                                                                                                          Originally posted by jact
                                                                                                                                                                          To facilitate proper testing you need to be doing A/B testing during the same timeframe with the same traffic sources. Pulling trailers for a week will tell you something, but will not tell you anything scientifically. Too many variables can change hour to hour, day to day, week to week.
                                                                                                                                                                          Do you have any tips on how to do such testing?
                                                                                                                                                                          Chris
                                                                                                                                                                          The Ex Girlfriend Pics

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                                                                                                                                                                            • NoWhErE
                                                                                                                                                                              Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                                                                              • Sep 2005
                                                                                                                                                                              • 10583
                                                                                                                                                                              #44
                                                                                                                                                                              Originally posted by andrej_NDC
                                                                                                                                                                              Man, I had trailers once looking like hollywood ones. I compared them to the simplest ones I could make, 15 secons long, 5 seconds for each "position". And the result? The same, no difference in ratios whatsoever. Removing trailers totally helped instantly.
                                                                                                                                                                              there goes my paycheck
                                                                                                                                                                              skype: lordofthecameltoe

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                                                                                                                                                                                • The Usual Suspect
                                                                                                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                                  • Jan 2005
                                                                                                                                                                                  • 415
                                                                                                                                                                                  #45
                                                                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by BFT3K
                                                                                                                                                                                  I just uploaded a "No Preview" version of BoobieMovies.com...

                                                                                                                                                                                  http://www.BoobieMovies.com/Big-Boun.../windex01.html

                                                                                                                                                                                  I'll come back with sales results at the end of October (one month).
                                                                                                                                                                                  So how did your test really go?

                                                                                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                    • designerscode
                                                                                                                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                                      • Jan 2010
                                                                                                                                                                                      • 220
                                                                                                                                                                                      #46
                                                                                                                                                                                      That's because photos can be manipulated. Ugly chicks can be beautified like goddesses. Facial impurities, stretch marks and freckles can be removed leaving a soft porcelain like skin.

                                                                                                                                                                                      ... Only to be disappointed when they reach the member's area haha coz that's where all the magic wears off

                                                                                                                                                                                      Mainstream & Adult Design Services
                                                                                                                                                                                      ICQ: 581772626 | shinobi [at] designerscode [dot] com

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                                                                                                                                                                                        • slapass
                                                                                                                                                                                          Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                                                                                          • Nov 2002
                                                                                                                                                                                          • 14625
                                                                                                                                                                                          #47
                                                                                                                                                                                          I would think a/b testing would be essential. If the main processor is scrubbing a bit more that week the whole test could give false data. Not to mention changes to traffic sources etc. There are just too many variables to just change the tour and hope more sales show up.

                                                                                                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                            • Paul Markham
                                                                                                                                                                                              Too old to care
                                                                                                                                                                                              • Jun 2001
                                                                                                                                                                                              • 52942
                                                                                                                                                                                              #48
                                                                                                                                                                                              Interesting thread.

                                                                                                                                                                                              I don't buythe excuse of guys getting off on sample clips and moving on. Today MEMBERS know all where to get a free move.

                                                                                                                                                                                              However I have seen a lot of tours where the samples all look very familiar and girls are obviously faking it. Maybe he just moved on.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Will give a try and change to pictures only and see what happens.



                                                                                                                                                                                              Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500.
                                                                                                                                                                                              PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

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                                                                                                                                                                                                • gaffg
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                                                  • Jan 2010
                                                                                                                                                                                                  • 717
                                                                                                                                                                                                  #49
                                                                                                                                                                                                  I would say there are many factors involved such as how did the user get to your landing page to begin with and what keywords are they searching. Are they looking for a guide and review or do they just want the final destination. I think there are many pros to excluding videos or giving the option to view the video as a button. You save space on content, you get more opportunities to write more, you might gain a bit of trust from the user by not forcing the video on them and letting them decide. If you have text and images those can provide searchable content opposed to videos. Your page might load faster without the video.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  I don't know, do some AB testing
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                                                                                                                                                                                                    • dj derek
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Registered User
                                                                                                                                                                                                      • Jul 2006
                                                                                                                                                                                                      • 45
                                                                                                                                                                                                      #50
                                                                                                                                                                                                      really nice stuff here, gotta try some of this
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Last edited by dj derek; 01-24-2010, 10:24 PM.

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