Agree or disagree with Senator Kennedy's
 

...politics...his passing is the loss of an American icon.

I agree

The man faced so much in life with the loss of his brothers and his family dedication to public service

A true hero for America and a better world in general

Lets not forget Mary Jo Kopechne who died in Ted Kennedy's car after he wrecked it and left her there. He should have gone to jail for that....

I think he said he dived for her but could not retrieve her...but I was not a witness as to what he did or didn't do...were you? I think he was probably drunk and accidently drove off of the bridge. None the less it was a black event...but does not alter his 47 years in the Senate...or the record of his accomplishments in the Senate...or the inherent goodness of heart...by all accounts...the man had.

There are lots of theories but the fact that he left the scene of the accident (what he was charged and convicted of) and did not report it right away speaks volumes to me.

It tells me that he was probably drunk.

he is not an icon in the least.

Well I watched the services from beginning to the end...a fitting tribute to the man.

Agreed. Kennedy was a degenerate drunk born with a silver spoon in his mouth. Why anyone considers him a great man is a real mystery to me. :disgust

AMEN!


Speak the Truth Brother.

Only two other people in the history of the United States have served in the Senate longer than Senator Kennedy. He was responsible for the passage of thousands of bills...300 of which he wrote himself. Many...if not most or even all...were designed for the betterment of the oppressed and/or the little man.

Please list your contributions to the United States and your accomplishments for your fellow man...or your contributions or accomplishments at all.

Sounds like someone is bitter he was born with money...

For someone that was born with all this money he sure looked out for the little guy...FUCK HIM IN THE ASS FOR DOING THAT!!! HE SHOULD FRY IN HELL!!! :Oh crap

I'm not sure the old... name your accomplishments that are better than this is the best of defenses in this case.

You make the assumption that Kennedy did everything he did for the betterment of the oppressed, I however believe he did everything based on political gain which completely lessens many or all of his supposed "accomplishments" for me. Most if not of politics occurs due to horse-trades and calling in favors. Longevity in the Senate is purely a product of his name recognition in Massachusetts and the lack of term-limits on representation, rather than him or anyone else being as important as they are made out to be.

BTW, our contributions to the United States Senate and to our fellow man far outweigh his or anyone else's. 1- We the People elect those that represent us. It is by our choice and our benevolence that they serve at our will. We do not elect them to speak to us, we elect them to speak for us. His or anyone's representation in the Senate or House is not all that impressive due to who they are, but rather because we chose them to represent who we are (which they usually are very poor at). 2- We the People fund all of this wonderful legislation that they pass. I would be much more impressed if the Kennedy's and the other "wonderful" families decided to fund this type of idealism with their own monies, rather than playing Saviors to the US and to the world with ours. That would be impressive. I would cannonize them for that, absolutely. It's much easier to spend someone else's money and then claim credit for it, isn't it?

2nd BTW. regarding Mary Jo Kopechne, depending on where you get the information, Kennedy either was slightly negligent or just downright guilty of involuntary manslaughter at the least. It supposedly wasn't reported by him until the morning after the accident (after it had already been discovered) and he had plenty of locations/opportunities to do so. It looks as if he knew his family connections were more important than being fully responsible for his actions.

"1- We the People elect those that represent us. It is by our choice and our benevolence that they serve at our will. We do not elect them to speak to us, we elect them to speak for us. His or anyone's representation in the Senate or House is not all that impressive due to who they are, but rather because we chose them to represent who we are (which they usually are very poor at)."

Exactly...and the people chose him to serve them for 47 years...the third longest sitting Senator...in the history of the United States. Outstanding.

You think he got that way clearly on merits? Wow.. what punch are you drinking? The Kennedy's have held that seat short of one person for a very long time (and the one person was because Teddy wasn't old enough at that point. He would have had the seat on name recognition alone otherwise and had another 4 years or so added to his so impressive record. Sorry, not impressive at all.

Senator Byrd, Senator Thurman, etc etc are in there from their name being more recognizable than their opposing candidate's. Hell, half those old guys are senile anyway. The other half are so out of touch with their constituency that it's laughable.

"You make the assumption that Kennedy did everything he did for the betterment of the oppressed, I however believe he did everything based on political gain which completely lessens many or all of his supposed "accomplishments" for me."

You...of course are free to believe what you choose. I have not made any assumptions...Senator Kennedy's Senate record speaks for itself.

We are all free to believe what we choose. His record speaks of something different to me than it does to you, clearly. I'm sure his sainthood is on the way as we speak.

Hmm, I got this in an email from a friend

As soon as his cancer was detected, we noticed the immediate attempt at the "canonization" of old Teddy Kennedy by the mainstream media. They are saying what a "great American" he is. Better say, let's get a couple things clear & not twist the facts to change the real history.

1. He was caught cheating at Harvard when he attended it. He was expelled twice, once for cheating on a test, and once for paying a classmate to cheat for him.

2. While expelled, Kennedy enlisted in the Army, but mistakenly signed up for four years instead of two. Oops! The man can't count to four! His father, Joseph P. Kennedy, former U.S. Ambassador to England (a step up from bootlegging liquor into the US from Canada during prohibition), pulled the necessary strings to have his enlistment shortened to two years, and to ensure that he served in Europe, not Korea , where a war was raging. No preferential treatment for him! (like he charged that President Bush received).

3. Kennedy was assigned to Paris, never advanced beyond the rank of Private, and returned to Harvard upon being discharged. Imagine a person of his "education" NEVER advancing past the rank of Private!

4. While attending law school at the University of Virginia, he was cited for reckless driving four times, including once when he was clocked driving 90 miles per hour in a residential neighborhood with his headlights off after dark. Yet his Virginia driver's license was never revoked. Coincidentally, he passed the bar exam in 1959. Amazing!

5. In 1964, he was seriously injured in a plane crash, and hospitalized for several months. Test results done by the hospital at the time he was admitted had shown he was legally intoxicated. The results of those tests remained a "state secret" until in the 1980's when the report was unsealed. Didn't hear about that from the unbiased media, did we?

6. On July 19, 1969, Kennedy attended a party on Chappaquiddick Island in Massachusetts . At about 11:00 PM, he borrowed his chauffeur's keys to his Oldsmobile limousine, and offered to give a ride home to Mary Jo Kopechne, a campaign worker. Leaving the island via an unlit bridge with no guard rail, Kennedy steered the car off the bridge, flipped, and into Poucha Pond.

7. He swam to shore and walked back to the party, passing several houses and a fire station. Two friends then returned with him to the scene of the accident. According to their later testimony, they told him what he already knew - that he was required by law to immediately report the accident to the authorities. Instead Kennedy made his way to his hotel, called his lawyer, and went to sleep. Kennedy called the police the next morning and by then the wreck had already been discovered. Before dying, Kopechne had scratched at the upholstered floor above her head in the upside-down car.
The Kennedy family began "calling in favors", ensuring that any inquiry would be contained. Her corpse was whisked out-of-state to her family, before an autopsy could be conducted. Further details are uncertain, but after the accident Kennedy says he repeatedly dove under the water trying to rescue Kopechne and he didn't call police because he was in a state of shock. It is widely assumed Kennedy was drunk, and he held off calling police in hopes that his family could fix the problem overnight. Since the accident, Kennedy's "political enemies" have referred to him as the distinguished Senator from Chappaquiddick. He pled guilty to leaving the scene of an accident, and was given a SUSPENDED SENTENCE OF TWO MONTHS. Kopechne's family received a small payout from the Kennedy's insurance policy, and never sued. There was later an effort to have her body exhumed and autopsied, but her family successfully fought against this in court, and Kennedy's family paid their attorney's bills... a "token of friendship"?


8. Kennedy has held his Senate seat for more than forty years, but considering his longevity, his accomplishments seem scant. He authored or argued for legislation that ensured a variety of civil rights, increased the minimum wage in 1981, made access to health care easier for the indigent, and funded Meals on Wheels for fixed-income seniors and is widely held as the "standard-bearer for liberalism". In his very first Senate roll, he was the floor manager for the bill that turned U.S. immigration policy upside down and opened the floodgate for immigrants from third world countries.

9. Since that time, he has been the prime instigator and author of every expansion of an increase in immigration, up to and including the latest attempt to grant amnesty to illegal aliens. Not to mention the pious grilling he gave the last two Supreme Court nominees, as if he was the standard bearer for the nation in matters of "what's right". What a pompous ass!

10. He is known around Washington as a public drunk, loud, boisterous and very disrespectful to ladies. JERK is a better description than "great American". "A blonde in every pond" is his motto.

The media has gone through most of Senator Kennedy's faults over the years and over the past few days...over and over and over again. The Senator was exactly like every other human animal that walks this earth...an imperfect specimen.

I don't see it that way, I see him as a politician that passed bills to get re-elected, not to better the country, his family covered up his fuck ups and he got away way more than every other human animal that walks the earth because of the silver spoon in his mouth. We need politicians that are there to better the country, not run the party agenda, the two party system isn't working and Ted Kennedy was a prime example

While I was never a fan I think that the man worked hard to promote what he believed in and for that I can certainly applaud him for his efforts. Things done right, things done wrong, like so many lives none are perfect but I hope that he has found his way to a peaceful and happy place.

While I would never want a King or a Queen the Kennedy's are the closest we have here in America to Royalty and though far more liberal than my views I do hope that they will remain active in the Political arena as the arguments from both sides of the fence and the final resolutions keep us balanced and make us stronger.

Excellent post. Senator Kennedy was far more liberal in his views than mine also.

Seeing anyone as royalty in America is the first mistake. Obama, while President, is no different than you or I and should be seen as such. I respect the position, not the man. I feel the same about Kennedy; as a man, I had no respect for him, however a small number of things he did while in the position were respectable, the rest just party politics.

Interesting that killing another person (I don't think it was intentional, but his response to it was very fucked up and protected by family and friends without a doubt) is just pushed aside as another "human" mistake, yet his 47 years in the Senate makes him godlike in some people's eyes. Very surprising indeed.

BINGO. Agreed 100%

As you said he was charged and convicted for it. Move on. It's easy to attack someone who can no longer defend themselves. Fact is that he has been in service of our country for 48 years and certainly earned our respect for that.
Now if you really want to get someone tried and convicted, how about attacking someone alive who has murdered over 4,000 of our countrymen on the basis of manufactured evidence of WMD, approved torture and had a running mate who shot a friend in the face while trying to kill little birds?
I think there is an institution in The Hague that would be suitable for that.

well not exactly- there has been a huge problem for many years when it comes to congressional seats- this is the first article of many that popped up:

Congressional stagnation is an American political theory that attempts to explain the high rate of incumbency re-election to the United States House of Representatives. In recent years this rate has been well over 90 per cent, with rarely more than 5-10 incumbents losing their House seats every election cycle. ... One of the main reasons incumbents seem to have such a complete advantage over challengers is because of their significantly better financed campaigns. In the 1990s the typical incumbent in a contested election had somewhere between 83 to 93 percent of what was spent by all the candidates in the district, and these incumbents typically captured about 64 to 67 percent of the vote. Wikipedia Article on Congressional Stagnation In The United States

The above-quoted article sets forth a number of reasons why Congress is not representing U.S. Citizens, including the Incumbent Financial Advantage, Pork Barrel Spending, and Gerrymandering.

For those who don't respect Edward Kennedy and treat his life so harshly, I wonder who you do respect...

1st election to the senate -- most senators get their positions through a combination of connections and good fortune... remember Senators were APPOINTED positions initially --- the founders didn't even pretend to be democratic about the selection of senators.

2nd If you go through the modern senate you'd find a great deal of the people both R and D are family politicians and well connected types, as a result I'd nip that critique in the bud.

e.g. He won his initial by beating George Cabot Lodge II for goodness sake, the senate -- even today is FULL of people who got the position with help from their name:
Eban Bayh (I)
Kristen Gillibrand (ny)
Judd Gregg (NH)
(those are just off the top of my head, there are many others Udalls are more, so that's 5 in total with no research.)

3rd This guy overcame demons like none other
a.) His family's shining star Joe P Kennedy Jr. (his oldest bro) died in the war, his sister had a number of failed procedures. Then one of his older sisters died.

b.) Both his bros were assinated
c.) He narrowly averted death in that plane crash and ended up in the hospital for months.
etc...

d.) His kid had to get his leg amputated ...

----At a time when Civil Rights was still a hot button issue in BOTH Democratic and Republican circles (remember MA actually had a Black Republican Senator in the 60s).

Kennedy fought against Southern Democrats for the little guy.

In seeing his eulogy I was reminded how much Kennedy fought for the downtrodden in society -- poor southern blacks who couldn't vote, immigrants (moving to a meriocratic basis rather than country of origin), the poor etc.

Kennedy could have decided at almost any point to "enrich the old coffers,"(gb II) or retreat from public life entirely...

There is nothing you can do to replace a human life, or make up for any other mistake, but you can get up, get on, and contribute to society.

Given how harshly you examine Kennedy's life I'm left to wonder what you will do with your own life to make up for your mistakes in life.

Gerrymandering should gradually fade away -- that's a vestiage of pure de jure racism.

Pork Barrel spending would be far less problematic if it were a pure public transparent process AND congressional members could earmark no-bid contracts and name things after themselves.

Incumbent Advantage -- well the best thing there would be term limits and work on increasing fund-raising transparency.

However, Gerrymandering has nothing to do with a state-wide senate race.

Incumbency and Pork Barrel spending have more to do with the laws of seniority in the Senate; however, that's a problem with the whole structure of the Senate.

However, if you look at Teddy Kennedy's career in Blue MA and compare it to others like Don Young's and Ted Steven's in Red AK (or dude in Hawaii) it becomes clear that Kennedy worked for others not to enrich his own pockets like those guys.

typical right wing hate good job. At least he served in the army which draft dodgers Bush and Cheney cant say.I never followed kennedys career one way or another but if there was real dirt Nixon would of ran with with it because he hated the kennedys.Watching people getting all choked up talking about him, he must of touched some peoples lives.Also I just have to say this when people who work in porn talk about liberals like its a bad word.How truly silly you sound. If it wasnt for liberals you would be working at radio shack or starbucks.

why cant you put that in the fucking title of your fucking post assholeeeeeeeeeeee!

Geez, get your facts straight and at least read what I posted before attacking, Bush was an Officer, Teddy was a Private http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Ken...2C_educ ation
Here's Bush http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_...ce_controversy

I love how people think because someone has a problem with a left wing politician, they become the enemy and a right wing extremist.
So let me set the record straight, I'm neither left or right, as I stated, the two party system sucks because politicians can get away with killing and cheating and then get praised for passing a bill that makes imigration the problem that it is

The Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965
Immigration doubled between 1965 and 1970 and doubled again between 1970 and 1990.

During debate on the Senate floor, Kennedy, speaking of the effects of the act, said, *?First, our cities will not be flooded with a million immigrants annually. Under the proposed bill, the present level of immigration remains substantially the same?. Secondly, the ethnic mix of this country will not be upset?. Contrary to the charges in some quarters, [the bill] will not inundate America with immigrants from any one country or area, or the most populated and deprived nations of Africa and Asia?. In the final analysis, the ethnic pattern of immigration under the proposed measure is not expected to change as sharply as the critics seem to think?. The bill will not flood our cities with immigrants. It will not upset the ethnic mix of our society. It will not relax the standards of admission. It will not cause American workers to lose their jobs.?


Now do you really think we don't have a imigration problem???

G. H.W. Bush was a war hero, his son was an officier in the national guard -- at the time the national guard was never deployed overseas in conflicts. If you are a college graduate you generally go into the military at a 2nd Lt. level, if you aren't you go in as a plain enlisted private there's nothing special about the two situations.

Where did I make comparisons? Only facts!
Tony 404 said that Bush wasn't in the military.
But if you want to make comparisons? My daughter has a higher rank in the Navy that Ted had in the Army and has more ribbons than both put together. Currently on the USS Ronald Reagon on the other side of the world.

W ducked out of going to Vietnam.Didnt see any all bitching about that and so did Cheney he said he had better things to do.Not a sound It is right hate please lets not kid ourselves pissing on the mans grave. If immigration is such a big problem in 2000 you controlled it all and did nothing. Once again if it wasnt for the left you wouldnt be working in porn.

Try to keep on subject, I know it's hard to make a point without changing the subject, but lets try?
First you say that Bush wasn't in the military, now you say he went in to stay out of vietnam? So which is it? Kennedy was kept out of Korea the same way, whats your point?
Where did I say I was in control of anything in 2000, you're making me into part of the GOP machine, I'm not, I'm for the country in whats right, not what the politicians are doing to the country. THE TWO PARTY SYSTEM DOESN'T WORK!! And you think that the only reason we have a porn industry is because of the democrats? Come on, porn has been around since cave drawings, the vatican has millions in paintings of naked women and you bunch the whole thing into the reason we have the democrats is because we want porn? The Bush administration made it harder on our industry. Clinton made it hard by letting it run itself, people got a little pissed when their 5 year old got emails trying to sell them porn. Things like that gave backing to the GOP thru the church, so again, whats your point?

I know it's hard to fathom, but I don't like either main parties, things need to change and people like Ted Kennedy were not the answer.

People wanted change.

Since the 2006 general elections, the Democratic Party has been the majority party in both the House of Representatives and the United States Senate. Democrats also hold a majority of state governorships and control a majority of state legislatures.

they promised changed

So what changes have happened since 2006?

I am sorry but no one goes into the military as a 2nd Lt. unless they have been graduated via ROTC or a recognized military academy. If one has a college degree it may qualify one to attend OCS and obtain a commision upon graduation from OCS...but a degree does not automatically qualify one to attend OCS and one also must enlist as a private before one can begin to qualify to attend OCS.

BTW...education had little if anything to do with one attaining rank when Senator Kennedy was in the Army. At that time rank was attained differently than it is now...and there were three ranks of private...E-1...E-2 (which was automatic) and E-3 (which was a Private 1st Class) and I suspect that if he came out as a private it would have been as a Private 1st Class...which would not have been particularly unusual on a two year enlistment. In addition at that time he would not have had to have a college degree to qualify to attend OCS...but if he would have applied and if he would have graduated and been commissioned he would have had an obligation to serve beyond his two year enlistment which many did not want to do...so they never made an effort to become officers.

My bad, I should have included the OCS, but my main point stands -- if you have a college degree they recruit you for OCS not to enlist generally afaik.

What is your daughter's E rating now and how many rows of ribbons does she currently have? Any meritorious ribbons? If I remember correctly...and I may not...weren't you a Submariner?

Love Senator Kennedy, or, hate him.....he was still a great man; or, we wouldn't be talking about him.

RIP

If I remember right, I think she's up to 7 ribbons now, they did some humanitarian work that scored them some ge-dunks, she has a warfare pin and is currently working on a second one, one for air one for sea, she made e-4 in 2 years, minimum time, she has one meritorious, I have one and she got a marksmanship for the pistol in boot, seems her shooting with me on weekends, paid off! I just wish they would let her qualify on the M-16, would be another easy ribbon, she's scary good with my AR-15

Yes I was on a submarine, USS Tautog SSN 639 fast attack
Shes on the biggest baddest warship on the planet

Do I sound proud? LMAO
When she gets out in a little over a year, she's going to medical school, uncle sam is paying for everything

And that says it all . :2 cents:

:thumbsup Well...I am proud of your service and hers. As we said in my unit...AIRBORNE!!!

Airborne has balls
There are people that serve, then there are those that put it on the line, On a submarine, we had balls that clanked, it's tradition, when you read about what the sub's did in WW2, that was what I wanted to do, still one major part of my life. When my daughter sent me pictures of her going thru shellback, I cried. She's tougher than a lot of men I know!
Anyone that serves in the service is a better person for it, you can knock what their rank is or what branch they went into, but only if you served, otherwise, SHUT THE FUCK UP!
My rank when I got out was STS3(SS), and no, no good conduct medal! LOL

PS, on my boat we said
There are only two kinds of ships
Submarines and Targets!