People are again talking about bringing back the death penalty in Canada
 

And for good reason.

Now that they've found the scum that abducted and killed the little girl in Ontario.

http://www.winnipegsun.com/news/cana...0/9516121.html

"McClintic is charged with abduction of a person under 16 and accessory after the fact.

Michael Rafferty is charged with first degree murder and abduction."

The impression I get from it is that these two will be offered a deal in exchange for them disclosing the whereabouts of the little girl's body. I know it has to be done but I must say I find it utterly disgusting that this level of criminal receives any concessions at all. The fact that they would commit such a crime is in itself completely abhorrent, but that they would then withhold the location of the body in order to lessen their sentence is simply astounding.

For me it's not about deterrance or taking a life for a life per se, it's about making sure scumbag childkllers like these have a guaranteed ZERO chance of ever again being able to hurt another innocent life.

That and also saving the rest of society the burdensome expense of having to feed, cloth and shelter them for the next 25+ years.


Q: after reading the article of course, what are YOUR thoughts on bringing back the death panalty in Canada? (at least for scum like this)

yay or nay?

yes yes yes

They should have years ago,damn gangstas shooting at anybody who is in the crossfire and innocent people getting killed over their "turf" war

I was always for the death penalty in cases where there is no doubt. If someone I loved was murdered I would have to see the person that caused them harm suffer. It is extreme I agree, but extreme crimes should result in extreme punishments.

A life for A life

considering all the stats from the first time they banned it, ie, jury more willing to convict, murder being FUCKING ILLEGAL

i doubt it go anywhere

GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!

Because based on the price of beer there you all deserve to DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


:1orglaugh

I'm a fan of general population for every prisoner, no special treatment for anyone.

Then you don't have to kill anyone, you just have to clean them up. :winkwink:

I quit believing in the death penalty when Texas changed over from electrocution to lethal injection. At least people were scared of electrocution.

An execution needs to be horrible, otherwise its not much of a deterrent. Hang them, crucify them, draw & quater them, or use a firing squad. Whats so horrible about painlessly going to sleep? Fuck that, its a pussy way to get the job gone.

I've been in favour of capital punishment for decades.

Said it before and I'll say it again - our country is full of way too many bleeding heart fucking liberals.

If guilt is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt - bring on the noose.

I think death penalty is a MUST these days. Too many idiots out there who think they can get away with anything.

I used to be very outspoken on this debate FOR the death penalty. It's one of only a couple of issues I've ever changed my mind on because of a direct debate with another person.

David Milgaard, Guy Morin and how many other people are being let go who've been on death row for years. In my opinion, even ONE mistaken execution is too much. Why? Because it COULD be my son or daughter. What if it was YOUR son or daughter? Would you be willing to sacrifice their life for the "greater cause" KNOWING they were innocent? Would you attend your child's execution and watch the pain on their face as they look into your eyes, or would you simply not go and let them die alone? Noone should have to go through that.

However, in lieu of the death penalty, I believe the prison system should reinstitute the same idea as Alcatraz (only worse) for the most heinous crimes. You live in your 8 x 8 cell (or whatever it is) alone and receive your three square meals a day. That's it. No mail. No visitors other than your lawyers. No TV. No magazines. No yard time. NOTHING. Sit in your cell till the day you day you die.

It's not painless. Lethal injection is actually pretty terrible. Being hanged would probably be one of the quickest, least painful ways to go. Basically split second. Lethal injection is not that fast. It paralyzes you and then slowly shuts down your organs until you die. There's more to it than that, but it isn't a simple "take a shot, say goodnight" situation.

I believe in the death penalty for negotiation purposes. However, for it to work as a negotiation purpose, you actually have to follow through on it once in a while. It's a real Catch-22. I think the fact that humans commit error way too often, especially when prosecuting others, is extremely extremely dangerous when we are talking about the death penalty. Killing a convicted person and then later finding out via new technology that they were innocent is just horrible.

I'm not in favour of the death penalty, but I have to say we need some mandatory prison time for firearms crimes.

that would work fine if the prison guards in canada werent so corrupt

I'm sure they will plead insanity like every other nutjob killer and get a free pass. Vincent Li anyone?

Indeed.

I can think of at least 3 other people I wouldn't have batted an eye over had they been put to death.

Picton - BC serial killer
Paul Bernardo - Rapist/Killer of young girls
Vincent Li - Beheaded a young guy on a bus in Manitoba last year

All of them did it, all were 100% proven guilty. The world would be a better place without them, period.

Yay! Bring it back and make our society better by eliminating pieces of shit like this.

The death penalty is a flawed process of justice. There have been plenty of high profile cases of people arrested, tried, and found guilty (beyond a reasonable doubt) of the most horrific crimes who have, at a later date, proved to be innocent of those crimes.

However certain a justice system is that someone is absolutely guilty -- and they may be right 99.99% of the time -- that 0.01% of being wrong would result in an innocent person being killed; which could be anyone of us.

I don't like the Government being able to kill people. I also think these people get off easy by getting put to sleep. They should be locked up for life. I think that's a much harsher punishment.

I am a cynical prick

I did always believe firmly in the death penalty.

As some of you might recall, a couple years ago, Ohio Governor Strickland commuted everyone's sentence on death row to life in prison as one of his last acts.

He then gave a lengthy press briefing on the subject and offered his explanation as to why.

He made some very compelling arguments for abolishing the death penalty in the US which really changed my view on the issue and they had nothing to do with the moral arguments.... and as an example, made the case among others, that it is the harshest penalty that could ever be handed down, yet its application from city to city and state to state and from prosecutor to prosecutor is wildly uneven. that in itself is cause to pause and reflect on the matter. assume you agree its a sensible penalty, i think if you do, you can also agree that it should be applied consistently and not depend solely on the bias of a court, a prosecutor or varying state laws that create different standards which must be met to seek the death penalty.

agreed:2 cents:

well I used to be for the death penality. However, its the easy way out. Life in prison or even better life in solidarity confinement is much worse I think.

I'm against the PREMISE that death is the harshest penalty to give a person.

If someone is in pain and terminal, why do we call death a release?
Why do we say that dead people are in a better place?
How do people convince themselves that sending an evil person to the eternal bliss of the afterlife is a good idea?

You know that they say death penalty cases cost the public more money than life in prison with no chance of parole? I'm not sure how that all works math-wise, but I think there's an auto-assumption that death is cheaper, and harsher, when it's not so clear cut as that.

It's unfathomable to some people that victims and loved ones actually forgive perpetrators, but they do. Square that internally before you state what you "know" people would do. (not that anyone has, but usually someone comes along and declares that they know what people would do yadda yadda.. No you dont.)

Try waterboarding them... They will give up the information as to the body's whereabouts.
As much as I am at heart pro death penalty, innocent people have been executed in the past and that could happen again.

Yes for those that have been wrongly accused it would be awful. However I believe with the technology available today, such as DNA testing this error is not likely to occur. I also believe our system in the US should be change to a system of 3 judges and not our peers. It is unfortunate that a man who clearly murdered his wife is acquitted because a juror of his peers did not understand what DNA was.

Locking them up for life lets them live. This is not something they offered their victims. There is not punishment that better fits the crime. These people lack remorse and compassion. Sitting in a cell all day makes them bored and crazy. It does not put the pounding fear that rushes in your body; as your life flashes before your eyes and you beg for redemption. It is not about a life in a confinement, it is about the last painful minute.


Yes sometimes we beg to death to ease our pain and free our souls, However these people do so with the faith that they are going to heaven or some sort of better after life. Murderers do not have this to look forward to only the fear of the unknown.

So, if the state kills someone without remorse or compassion -- has the state not committed the same crime they are punishing the individual for...?

I wish we would bring back Death Penalty in the UK. Child killers, rapists, murderers.. they all deserve to die for their crimes. Take a life, lose a life. I include rapists in there because I think they are the biggest scum bags of all. Most women who suffer rape are scarred for life.

We complain that prisons are over crowded etc, so bring back Death Penalty. It will cut down crimes and also ease up on over crowding.

I used to believe in the death penalty. It's simple: You kill someone, you get killed.

I don't believe in the death penalty any more. It's an easy way out. Instead, I'd like to see them put in a cold, damp, dark cell, and feed them nothing but bread and water for the rest of their lives. No computers, no TV, no radio, no working out, no seeing the sun ever again. No visitors. Just sit in that cell, never talking to another soul, until you die.

If my son or daughter even were accused of something so terrible as a murder I would be ashamed. Its not very often the Police get the wrong person these days. Yes it can happen and that is something has to be looked at but I am all for the people who are 100% guilt being given the Death Penalty. Cases were evidence is so much that you know they did it.

You say "not likely" to occur. To me, that's not good enough. As I said, even ONE mistaken execution is too many. Again, if it was YOUR son or daughter and you knew there were incapable of the crime they were about to be put to death for, is "not likely" good enough?

Throw in bad police work, CORRUPT police officers and/or attorneys, uneducated or ignorant juries (how many people have we seen on GFY alone say they'd convict OR acquit someone based on nothing to do with the case but because of something in their own past?) and I just don't believe anyone should be put to death in these case. Humans make errors and will until the end of time.

However, in the case of someone like Vincent Li, I'd be more open to it. With dozens of eye witnesses, being caught red handed, and an admission of guilt, I'd probably have no problem seeing someone like that executed.

It's ironic because the same people who don't trust the government to heal people (i.e. healthcare) trust the government to kill people.

Bottom line: If the death penalty is reinstated innocent people will die.

As far as I am concerned killing one innocent person is not worth the death of any amount of people who are absolutely guilty. Plus it is insanely more expensive to execute people than it is to lock them up for life(legal shit appeals etc.).

Any plan to down-number the amount of canadians is a good plan :D

Quite right -- human error is the key. There is the case of the Ontario forensic scientist who was providing evidence to the courts very recently, and that evidence was used to convict parents for the murder of their children. Now, many people feel that parents who murder their children, especially in the scenarios this forensic scientist decribed, should have been executed for their horrible crimes.

Fast forward a few years, and most of these parents have been cleared of their crimes -- due to error on the behalf of this forensic scientist. Luckily, these parents only had their lives ruined, not taken.

Context is important. You left out THIS part of my quote..."David Milgaard, Guy Morin and how many other people are being let go who've been on death row for years. In my opinion, even ONE mistaken execution is too much. Why? Because it COULD be my son or daughter."

If MY child was accused and convicted of murder and all the evidence pointed at them, sure, I'd be ashamed. They'd also deserve the punishment they receive.

In the FULL example I posted however, what if you KNEW your child simply wasn't capable of the crime OR even had an alibi for them that was somehow overlooked or inadmissable? Remember, we're not talking about the JUSTICE system here...we're talking about the LEGAL system. Once the police and prosecutors have their blinders on, they will do almost ANYTHING to get the conviction. It's been proven how many times that they'll misrepresent or misplace evidence to get a conviction? It may be rare, but even once is too much. And again, people can and WILL make mistakes.

In 50 years, perhaps they'll find out that the DNA evidence we're using today is so primitive it's laughable and that it's not as reliable as we seem to think it is.

I'm in favor of capital punishment BUT until they do something about the courts it's a gamble... there have been 3 or 4 people in our province in the last 10 years that was accused of murder and later found the real killers! Our legal system is to fucked up for capital punishment!

But I know people that use to actually commit crimes so they could locked away for the winter... free food, smokes, warm shelter etc so they should bring back the bread and water and makes the fuckers suffer to make sure they don't want to ever go back to jail again!!!!!

How about Bernardo's lawyer who KNEW there was a video tape of them raping and killing the girls hidden in their home, didn't tell anyone, and let that bitch get a plea deal because of it.. Fucking sicko.

I do not believe that punishing someone for a crime, is the same as committing a crime. I have no remorse or compassion for those that have none for me and those I love. Yes the state is taking a life but only for a life. I am not saying put down everyone that spray painted a wall, or stole a cookie. If you steal you pay a fine, If you destroy a life you pay with time, If you take a life, you should pay with yours.

I could argue it the opposite way. What if it was your son or daughter was brutality murdered and you know for sure who did it is without a doubt. Would it not be painful to see the man who murdered your children free. He serves a few years in prison, He gets to workout, play ball, watch TV have visitors, while you laid your child into the ground. He gets out on good behavior, gets to go on with his life because he found god in prison. Does this not break your heart? What about the repeat offenders the ones the murder again. If that was your child you wouldn't you thinking he should of been sentence to death. If he had paid for his first crime you would not be with out a child.

Unfortunately there are so many human factors involved but this can never be changed. We are always going to be human and we can only do the best. I am not saying put down everyone. Only those who truly are guilty without doubt like Vincent Li at least we agree there :winkwink:

This is why I say we should have the "alcatraz" system. They should NEVER be allowed out...EVER. And the amenities you suggest, they shouldn't have access to any of those either.

eye for an eye

Yes but this system you suggest would also be imperfect. The same innocent are punished due to this human element. I am only say there is no perfect answer. But in a extreme case where there is no doubt, the death penalty is the only punishment that fits the crime.

I'm not aware of anything that's perfect, so I'm certainly not suggesting that THIS is perfect either.

You can at least let innocent people out and compensate them. That's not to say they'll ever be FULLY compensated. But there's NOTHING you can do once you've executed an innocent person.

There are plenty of examples of cases, where the existed absolutely zero doubt about the guilt of an accused. Look at the cases of the Guildford Four and the Maguire Seven in the UK. They were convicted in the 1970s for involvement in IRA bombing in London, and the trial judge expressed his indignation that they could not be sentenced to death.

As it turned out, the police fabricated evidence, and beat confessions out of them -- as they fitted the profile of what they supposed an IRA terrorist would be.

Had they been convicted about 10 years earlier, they would have gone to the gallows and swung. In 1989 the verdicts against them were quashed, and they walk free men and women.

This is the flaw in the system.

As if any friggin mental case would NOT kill just because of a death penalty... silly humans, executions are for China and the US...

:D

In order for an execution to be a deterrent to others, it has to at least look horrible. Lethal Injection does not look horrible by any means.

I know that hanging is over quickly, but at least the thought of it is somewhat scary.

That's the problem, in Canada anyway. 25 years (to life) is the max sentence anyone can get here. I mean really, in a case such as Paul Bernardo's, what's with the "eligible for parole in 25 years" crap anyway?

No, I'm for doing away with that kind of scum where they have irrefutable evidence they did it.

It's not fair to the victim's family AT ALL that there is even the slightest chance someone like that Li the beheader could ever be set free, yet there it is, he could go free at some point if certain doctors deem him fit to reenter society.

Fact is if he beheaded your brother, or your son perhaps, and I'm speaking to everyone here, you WOULD want the scum put to death.

As it stands now there is no penalty harsh enough in Canada for this level of criminal.

This is exactly what I'm saying. Where there is irrefutable evidence and the crime is severe and vicious enough and ONLY in those cases would I support the death penalty.

Keyword: irrefutable. Or an even better word: incontravertible. INDISPUTABLE.


I've at no time in any thread on this topic supported the death penalty for all convicted murderers, as of course there are too many cases where the evidence is still somewhat ambiguous. In Milgaard's case, in Steven Truscott's case, the evidence was not incontravertible. No DNA testing existed then for one thing. But in the cases of Bernardo, Li, and Picton as I've said there was no doubt at all they did what they did, period. Their trials were a formality really, in that sense.

Why anyone would oppose ridding the world if that kind of scum is beyond me. Allowing them to breath the same air as the rest of us only further punishes the victim's family. Look at some of the serial killers in the US, writing books about themselves, profiting or gleaning fame from their crimes. PFFFT. It's nice that some say "I'd like to see them locked in a tiny cell with nothing, no windows, only bread and water for life" but that's not the way it is. If it was maybe I would pipe down some about the death penalty.

Only if they can perfect the ability to know for sure (100%) via evidence that just can not be disputed. As it stands at least in the US, not all states that have the death penalty allow for DNA in an appeal and did not in the trial either (trial portion due to when it happened).

After we can make sure it is 100% accurate, it would then need to be applied equally. So statistically there would be no difference in charges and convictions of criminals by race, income level, or the level of their attorney (especially since many end up with public defenders who often put nothing into a defense).

Then of course the sentence should only apply to crimes where it makes sense. Not all murders for instance are created equal and it should be looked at carefully. Odds are someone who came home only to find the love of their life fucking getting pounded in the ass by their brother who snaps and kills one of them in a fit of rage should not really be put to death. The chance of such a crime happening again are slim to none and death for that individual would not really fit the crime.

Get that done and then the death penalty should be put to good use since I still am not super happy with the Government taking lives. So I feel all convicted inmates sentenced to death should be put down medically (yes this would be without any noticeable pain). The instant they are put down every usable organ, piece of flesh, ounce of blood, you name it would be harvested and put to use to help others.

Why not letting them in a cell slowly dieing,no food,no water,with rats chewing them?!It's cruel than electric chair.

1. why did you guys ban it in the first place?

2. if death penalty worked thered be no crime in the world, beause death penalty been around longer than jesus, it is not a "deterrent" it is to get rid of those who cannt reform, nothing to do with deterring crimes.

That sentence does not make sense.