Will the "Big 3" die today?
 

Today's the day we find out..

What are your thoughts?

I think they'll be forced in bankruptcy, it's their only real chance at recovering .. regardless of how long it takes.

.....doa

i hope so. fuck this communist bullshit. sink or swim. you can't make them into a responsible, viable business by rewarding failure and sending the message that "hey... no matter how fucked up you let shit get... its ok, because you can cry to tax payers to pick up the tab and bail you out"

and seriously... how fucking moronic are people? congress is demanding a business plan from car manufacturers? really? career politicians are going to look over fortune 500 company business plans as if that makes any sense or as if they are in some position to critique them?

the dumbing down of the nation is almost complete.

i haven't owned an american car since i was about 20. i never will again in my life. fuck auto workers and fuck US car companies that have been cranking out absolute garbage for 30 years, with companies like toyota running circles around them in their own backyard.

hope it all crumbles

I have never 100% agreed with anyone on gfy before but this is exactly how i feel. I was so pissed that they were even thinking about bailing them out.

1 billion of it I read GM is planning to invest in Brazil. If Congress gives them anything it'll better demand no funds be used in their overseas operations. But it won't and our tax dollars in a recession will shore up Brazilian plants that will continue to take American jobs.

It's not a bail-out it's a loan and the last loan to a large auto company (chrysler) was repaid ahead of schedule and with interest so good deal for both the gov and the company. If they can use the money to retool and actually build cars people want in the future it'll be a good deal again.
You people that want the auto companies to go bankrupt don't realize the domino affect. They fail, hundreds of suppliers also fail. That'll mean untold numbers of unemployed workers that'll strain the system to a point I'd be scared to see.
All taken together though it's a combo of unions and the companies compromising themselves into this position over many years, legacy costs are killing them so there needs to be a solution soon.

You make a lot of sense! :2 cents:

They need to so they can reorganize, deal with with labor, deal with management and get back to reality.

Anyone on this board running their company like the big 3 would be getting their meals on a soup kitchen line and sleeping at the local shelter at night.

The attitude of some of these corporations is a complete joke.

You nailed it with this response.

It's that domino effect that the politicians are fearing the most right now, not just the employees of the car companies.
A lot of companies in the US will be closing their doors once they no longer have those 3 buying supplies and services from them.
And when all of those companies go, other companies that did business with them will go.

And so on and so forth.

No, I don't agree with bailing out the big 3, but the consequences will be very far reaching indeed once all those people go on unemployment.

http://www.congratstothewinners.com/...ctric-cars.jpg

In this documentary you can easily see how the car companies have haulted their own progress....

If you havent seen this, watch it

Who Killed the Electric Car?

fuck the auto industr

their CEO private jet should be the first to go

That would be true if they were the *ONLY* game in town.... my next car once this one is paid off (and i'm getting close), will be a Civic...and i've been thinking this for a long long time, I like the look, the fuel efficiency, the dashboard and everything, and i've been a Dodge owner since I could drive. They can all go fuck themselves, and if bankruptcy is what it takes then so be it... they aren't the only game in town. :2 cents:

"their progress"

what "progress"

how does a for profit company "progress" by building something that 1) there is no infrastructure to support, 2) is totally unproven and untested and that 3) is grossly inefficient, 4) completely out of touch with the market and 5) should it take off, it devastates their own company financially?

the funny thing thing about jackasses and the "electric car" argument is that they don't have any real explanation as to why it didn't happen anywhere else in the world either. must be a pretty huge conspiracy there. global. not a single government on the planet pushed for it to happen... not even the most liberal, tree hugging, seal saving, whale protecting government produced an electric vehicle that was efficient, attractive and that consumers would accept.

weird.

funny that companies like Tesla Motors have finally made some real advances in battery technology (almost 30 years after the "electric car") and are on their way to producing comparable production vehicles to normal cars, that run solely on electricity and NO ONE is stopping it. who are they? run by the Illuminati? the Vatican? not only that... they're still a couple years away from production (on vehicles other than the sports car)

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

you're right.... lets use that logic.

lets make sure we protect all dying companies. all inefficient companies, all dying technologies, all outmoded products period because of the supposed "domino effect".

then, while we're at it... lets make sure we have a world where puppies never die, children never cry and lets increase the life span of pretty butterflies by 18 months so they can bring more beauty to the world.

that will surely solve everything.

the US car industry is totally backwards. it doesn't have a sustainable model and they have proven to be unsustainable businesses. its an industry that cranks out garbage and it can't compete with foreign car companies in its own backyard... which says a lot.

the "domino effect"?

it can also be argued that YOU "don't realize" that there is an economic "domino effect" to propping up failing super companies with tax payer dollars as well.

Translated: I have not watched it, and will just call you a jackass and have no substance to debate anything to actually do with this documentary. You p[ut too much wind in these types of threads, I just drive by ;)

i have seen it... and i don't care. its a biased view of what is obviously a complicated story. just because you happen to resent authority and what you perceive to be "the man" and gravitate towards believing in conspiracy theories... doesn't change the fact that its one side of a complicated issue

at the end of the day, you can't explain why NO ONE ON THE PLANET did it... the show only addresses what happened in California.

so... i understand that you believe there has been a massive world wide conspiracy to suppress this on every level of commerce and government across the globe for several decades... i mean... you don't really have a choice right? otherwise, you have to admit that possibly there is more to the story.

but... i don't blame you... i blame the male authority figure that took advantage of you as a child and stuck his hands down your pants. that even has clouded your judgment, made you bitter and caused you to resent authority. get help.

f bailouts

as I said... soo much wind... I honestly think people like you who go off on long diatribes about "knowing me" or something have deep issues with your own self identity and self esteem.

You wrote three paragraphs talking about shit that has nothing to do with me, or the documentary, or the thread... male authority and conspiracy? Because I posted a link to a DVD on amazon? LOLOLOL

You are the one who needs help... its beyond obvious any opinion I have gets you emotional because you start digging into some made up psychological profile you have of me, and that in itself shows there is something lingering below the surface. Especially the part about an adult touching a child, because I linked a documentary? Wow. Deep.

deny it. but your posts prove it.

You really think Honda, Nissian, ect are going to be buying from US suppliers? Do you really think they will double/triple/quadruple/whatever their output to meet the demand, even if they did?

you were the one that said that video illustrates how car companies have "haulted their own progress".

it doesn't. it shows they developed something and backed off of it. they did it for a variety of reasons.

the movie itself makes the case that they did it because it wasn't profitable for them to pursue an electric vehicle which, among other things requires little to no maintenance and spare parts... which should tell someone even as thick as you are, that it isn't "progress" to run your own company into the ground financially.

so yeah, you're a little loopy. you consistently take every opportunity to lash out at "the man" and you make little sense when doing it.

don't be angry with me. don't blame me for being the messenger... be angry at the priest or uncle that was licking your nutsack when you were growing up. but at some point, you have to forgive him... forgive yourself and move on. stop drinking. stop being bitter. learn to trust authority... and just let go. its not your fault. he was a bad person.

Proof you dont know me.

I havent had a drink in almost 4 years now, so give it up. Youre the one with the substance abuse problems, not me. I made mine public long ago and stopped, when you gonna quit? LOL

well what the right thing to do and what will be done are 2 different things

there is no doubt the gov will make sure they stay afloat for now, they dont help GM and everything tanks even further its fucked up but thats how it is

If they "fail" someone who knows how to run a company will buy them. there will be short term job losses but things will bounce back. They NEED to fail so someone who can run a business can step in.

How can they fail so quickly? They had years and years and years and years of profits where the hell did it all go? They clearly did not plan correctly and need to be purged.

Would you buy a car that gets 100 miles on a quick charge from ac current, zero emmissions, available in a few months? Pop a quick solar panel up and a few batteries and it's 100% free powered forever too, not to mention the tax savings and rebates for using solar. Phoenixmotorcars.com

In the 1970's our government also made moves and said the buzzwords but never did jack shit. Dont believe that you need GM or any old school "part of the problem" company to make a new vehicle, because you dont. If you keep throwing money at them and they survive, they're going to take a decade of "research" to milk us and then close down anyway. When they fail for good, they'll absolutely still say they produced what the market demanded (lmfao)

know you? i don't claim to "know you"... i know human behavior and understand that the addiction (or propensity towards addiction to SOMETHING) coupled with a deep rooted resentment of authority isn't just a coincidence.

its the classic trademark of someone who's suffered either significant physical or sexual abuse

but its ok... i don't expect any breakthroughs in this first session.

i drink maybe 3 times a year and do not use any drugs at all.

sorry

Everyone drinks down gas and abuses petroleum substance. There. We're back on topic, lol.

This Pleasurepays guy always just drifts off into personal attacks and makes things up about posters to initiate a reaction. All because I posted a DVD link too, LOL

yes, back on topic.

I agree with your post above regarding electric vehicles... I dont like the half-truck thing, but this dont look too bad for electric car to run the family around town in. I dont drive far often, and live in small town, new orleans French Quarter is only 1.5 miles wide!

100 miles on elecricity is awesome

nice!

http://www.phoenixmotorcars.com/vehi...hoenix-suv.php

Fletch is a weird one. Always seems to be "at the man" for something.