FACT: Debates are meaningless and won't change a single mind
 

It seems to me that everyone already has their mind made up.

Whenever someone wants to "discuss politics" with you, it's not because they're interested in what you have to say, it's because they want you to listen to what they have to say.
There is no changing of minds in today's electorate, IMHO.

If tomorrow John McCain was caught sodomizing a spotted owl, the spin machine would find a way to make it Obama or Pelosi or Reid's fault, his supporters would find a way for it to not matter and still support him.

If tomorrow Barack Obama was caught clubbing a baby seal (that Jeremiah Wright was sodomizing at the same time), the spin machine would blame it on the failed policies of George Bush and his supporters would find a way for it to not matter and still support him.

All of this shit every day about debates and bailouts and lipstick on a pig and god damn America is only played in the media to rile up the base to motivate them to show up on election day.

Arguing politics here, or anywhere else, is really a pointless exercise because people aren't reading the thread because they're interested in a lively discussion and have an open mind....they want to call you an idiot for the views you hold and try to convince you that their views are the correct ones.

I think that since about 1994 our electorate has been divided in a way it hasn't been since the issue of the day was slavery. IMHO it's likely to stay that way for a long time.

I don't think it matters since tomorrow's story will be the economy.

Hell, you can even watch hours of news everyday and read alot of publications and try to delude yourself into thinking that you're "well informed", when all you've done is watch and read a bunch of partisan propaganda.

If you're conservative you can watch Hannity and O'reilly, and read the National Review and the Weekly Standard, and never hear or read a single word that disagrees with or challenges a belief you already hold.

If you're liberal you can watch Olbermann and Maddow, and read Mother Jones and The Nation and never hear or read a single word that disagrees with or challenges a belief you already hold.

Pretty sad state of affairs IMO.

well the die-hards are the ones who post about it. The die-hards on either side don't decide elections - the average joe swing voters decide elections. And many of them can and will go either way. They're also generally the least educated in every way so the debates actually have a huge impact on their decisions.

I don't think tomorrow's story matters. The one the day after that and for the next 32 days won't matter either. People's minds are already made up.

The right wing has already found a way to blame the democrats for the current economic situation, even though they've controlled the White House for the last 8 years and controlled congress for 10 of the last 12.

The left wing has managed to blame house republicans for the bailout package not being passed, even though the dems have the majority in congress and theoretically don't need a single republican vote to pass anything.

Anything bad that happens can be twisted and spun to make it the other side's fault, and anything good that happens can be twisted and spun so that your favorite party can take credit for it.
Nothing that happens between now and election day is going to change anyone's mind. The only thing that matters is who gets more of their troops to show up on election day.

Especially VP debates...

:D

I agree, everyone is looking for gaffes and soundbites.

Even though you only say what I tell you,I have to agree with you. I also think two things are different since 1994. The first is right wing talk radio and pundit movement really came into their own. I also think its in the media best interests for elections to be divided and dirty. it means lots of ad buys.

Well you're basically saying the same thing as me....I said the deep division started in 1994 (you could argue it started in 1992 with Pat Buchanan's culture war convention speech...but I digress)

In 1994 when the republicans took control of congress, that's when this all started. I'm not blaming them entirely or anything, both sides are guilty.....but it seems to me that is when it became better to not solve a problem so that you could use it to hit your opponent over the head in the next election.
That's also the congress that gerrymandered the congressional districts to the point where almost every seat is safe. The seat is safe, but not necessarily the congressman, because they can still be challenged in the primary.......so it's in a representative's best interest to cater to the far wing of his own party rather than to serve all of his constituents.

Gone are the Bob Dole's and Pat Moynihans, the Tip O'neill's and Jack Kemp's, they've all been replaced with hardcore ideologues who are more interested in blaming the other side for the problem than they are in solving the problem.

Case in point, the latest legislation to hit the floor. Hey guys can you save us from a great depression?
Only if the other side doesn't try to take credit for the deal or blame my side for the problem. We'd rather have great depression #2 than lose in November.

So like I was saying, the debates are pointless because minds are already made up. If the republican nominee was a dancing bear from the circus, that bear would still get 45% of the vote. If the democratic nominee was a transsexual panda, it would get at least 45% of the vote.

Pretty sad state of affairs IMO.

The whole campaigning process is meaningless... it's simply a way to attack the party, and make their supporters hate the others more than they already did.

Hell, many would argue that the entire voting process is meaningless.

However, those few swing states, now those actually do matter, sorta. They may as well just campaign and speak there and leave the rest of the country to continue doing what they're always doing.

So if Biden had mopped the floor with her would you of made this thread? Not trying to start anything. Just curious.

fact.... for weeks all we heard by talking heads was how important this debate was.
suddenly today... cause palin didn't shit herself on stage... the debate didn't mean anything.