Why won't people implement upsell products in their members area? Thoughts?
 

I was talking to someone yesterday and he was telling me how difficult it was to GIVE AWAY an upsell product. Now, I can understand not wanting to have your members area totally filled with upsells, but if the product was unobstrusive and it could make you extra money, why wouldn't you spend 20 minutes to implement it and give it a try? He says the thing he hears most often is "I don't care (about how much money the upsell could potentially make), I just want joins."

It doesn't make a lot of sense to me, so I'm curious to hear the thoughts of others.

Not sure what members areas you have been in but most if not all have upsell products.

I've been in many of them and yes, most do. I've seen a fair share that absolutely refuse them.

I have experienced this for 5 years selling Fastsize.
We make a killing with our product ANYWHERE we can get placements, paid or not.

People who run paysites don't know how to upsell, they aren't very good with selling other products. They don't even open themselves up to letting someone like me run it FOR them and make them cash.

I can't express to you the frustration I have had over this issue for so many years. It makes me want to slap the shit out of people. Ignorance and stupidity clouding good money making judgement.

It's not just their loss, it's mine too.

So this is more common than I'd have thought. I'm really surprised. Great response though. Thanks.

See, THAT'S what I don't get. You and this other guy will do ALL the work, and they reap the rewards. If it fails, they've lost nothing...not even their time. But he says everyone is focused on joins. Are joins THAT valuable? If joins are down anywhere, it just makes good business sense, at least to ME, to diversify your revenue streams and, for lack of a better phrase, take advantage of the joins you DO have.

lol, I can only imagine your frustration. I'm getting annoyed just thinking about it.

I run into this as well...but I guess the difference is, I see their side of the story so it is my job to show them that I can make them money. Members area traffic is prime real estate... people do not just want to give that away to somebody that "might" make some money. If they give away that prime action, they want prime results otherwise they are simply diluting the value of the other products they are trying to market.

There are tons of free products available out there. You don't really expect every pay site to jump at yet another one?

I'm going to name names since I don't give a shit anymore.

I talked to braincash today who said they don't put up banners in their members area unless they get "traffic back".
I couldn't even buy a banner. I had to "send joins" in order to get my cock extender into their members area.

To me, that's the most backwards horseshit ever, and they are NOT the first people to do this.

This wasn't Pat's fault, guy actually went to bat for me and tried to get me some kind of deal but ownership wouldn't go for it.

I have NO traffic to send to myself let alone anyone else. I am not a porn program, I am trying to sell a product to your members. The logic escapes me and has for the last 1700 days.

Hey brad hit me up, I wanna get you in our new members areas

Hmm.. Wow... Fred is a pretty smart guy. Can't believe he wouldn't put you in his members area.

Don't get me wrong, they are a classy motherfucking establishment. I've sent sales and had rebills go for YEARS with their program. I don't have a problem with the decision I just don't really "get it".

Well, to tell you the truth I can see the logic behind asking for sign ups in return.

And if you guys think really hard I think you can see the logic too.

:P

You were hit...

:1orglaugh

That expression tickled my tummy...

ADG

Only you and I can appreciate something like that. :thumbsup

Upsells hurt a % of your retention. Even a member having a membership to a totally un-related site, that they didn't find our site, has an effect on retention.

Even more so when the products can be expensive, like fast size. Choose to increase the size of your dick for big $ or keep watching huge cocks and dreaming about it. Well in my case, I would rather they dream, wouldn't I?

Doing an exchange, for traffic / sales, is actually very smart and what I would recommend everyone doing it this way. Getting a small fee on the minor percentage that actually purchase is far less money than the exchange of traffic/sales which can produce income all over.

More often than not, sites with higher PPS options have upsells, several mixed in with free things, lots of dating, cams, and other crap. These companies also have the highest chargebacks but often do the highest volumes, so they do what they can to cover all costs.

Most revshare programs, the smaller 50/50, type sites. Are "very" one on one with members, and any crap like an upsell starts a flurry of pissed off emails.

Having a upsell, with free content or not, does not "improve" a members area. And that's the real point.

It's been like this for over 3 years now. If you don't have traffic and you want to get an upsell product in someone members area. Good luck! Today's business requires you to send traffic / biz to them in order to get a deal done.

Makes perfect sense to me if you were Fred to have this type of relationship with all of his upsell products.

Topbucks has sold us in their MA for 5 years and have not reported it affecting retention in any way.

TheDoc - Thinking he knows everything since 1972.

Great question ronaldo.

You know that I have experienced the same situation for almost three years now and I think that I have three primary reasons why people don't or won't implement upsell products in their members area.

1. Laziness/procrastination - It's hard to determine where one of these ends and the other begins but I would have to say that the majority of the webmasters in this industry entered it for one reason... "The dream of making EASY MONEY" which we all know is not true. So instead of working hard or even just steady they hang on to their delusions of grandeur and just "Talk" about what they are going to do and how much money they are going to make. With members area upsells being one of the easiest, not to mention most cost effective, "They're FREE", it just tells me that if they cannot make the effort to do this one simple thing then that explains a lot!

2. Exclusivity - You always hear "I only have exclusive content on my site". OK well unless you've been around for a good while then where is all this "Exclusive" content coming from? This reason should read, " I only want to do business with a handful of select companies that I know personally and maximize the amount of money I make with them". I call "BULLSHIT". I know for a fact that one, if your member can't find what they want in your members area then guess what? They will go somewhere else to spend their money!! The most successful and more importantly profitable paysite programs have the largest members area possible offering their members virtually anything they want. The result is that the member stays on their site and finds whatever they want or need... resulting in the site makes more money!

3. Apathy - I don't mean this in the sense of "I just don't care" but in the sense that many established webmasters have reached their "Comfort Zone". It's not just common to this industry but to most every business. Someone works their ass off until they reach a certain level of income, be it $10K, $20K, $50K a month, and that affords them all the creature comforts they want and need. So now they think it's time to kick back and let it ride. Hire a few flunkies to run things and become the "Player" they always dreamed of.


By no means do I criticize any webmaster for operating in any manner they choose but you also have to realize that many of adult webmasters here have very little if any real business acumen or experience and do not realize that they are leaving money on the table everyday by not maximizing the profitability potential of the program that they worked so hard to develop.

I'm not blowing my own horn but I've got over 20 years of real world business experience ranging from Fortune 500 marketing to owning a number of my own businesses. So if anyone wants some free advice on how to maximize a dollar let's just say I've "Been There, Done That" and would love to share my experience to anyone willing or wanting to listen.

'Nuff Said :)
_

Nice post Ronaldo. Some interesting comments here.

Speaking of BradM. Can you hit me up next week, I need to talk with you about something. Just dont have time today or this weekend.

If not, I will try and get with you. Making a note.

Some of my review clients specifically ask me to negatively mention upsell ads in member's areas when reviewing a site. I have honestly never understood why. I have been in thousands of MA's, and only a few have had so many ads or annoying/misleading ads to the point that it affected the value of the site in my opinion. I think there is a right way and a wrong way to do it for sure.

I guess some members don't like ads, but I have to wonder if it's really a significant number who even give a shit or if it's just a small, vocal minority who would find something else to pitch a fit about anyway.

im tied up with work tilltonight then i will comment

AlmightyJim,
100% agreed. Fantastic post!!!

Well, fuck. I should have added a fastsize referral code somewhere. :winkwink:

Some interesting posts in here. Thanks for the input everyone.

You are on the ball today. If you don't think any upsell, xsale, or any extra 'fee' at any point hurts your retention, then you are a moron.

As I said, PPS programs (like topbucks) do this for volume and to help cover the short loss on payouts. Since you brought up TB, your slot is always for sale - that's the bottom line to them.

Why get butt hurt over what I said? What I stated is based off the niche I work within and the fact that I promote you, on several companies. Damn, would mean I spoke from experience's. Some crazy shit going on at GFY!

Butt hurt? Not at all. I'm just stating that you are always 100% undeniably correct. You argue every position you have until you've flogged the horse so bad it looks like compost.

You're the one flailing verbal insults now, not me. I'm simply stating a fact: You're right.

Traffic trades is very common and have been done for years.
Upsale traffic is pure gold, you as the person having the upsale product and the paysite owner know this.
What any paysite owner need to keep his gold, is fresh traffic without it your members base will slowly drop to nothing, so it makes a lot of sence to only send that traffic to people that will send something back, the calculation is not as simple as saying "my product pay $100 and my competitor pay only $50", also the spots is somewhat limitted to how much you can put in a members area before it starts to hurt the retentions (for the programs that actually worry about that) so you are not just compeeting with similar products but all types of products.
Hire a couple of traffic builders to build up a nice amount of traffic, that will help you a lot :thumbsup
Another reason could also be either people that is affraid of destroying a working concept or as AlmightyJim wrote some people tend to get more laid back once they reach a certain level

I did upsells for years, but I don't have any right now. The tiny little $$ you make from them isn't worth distracting from the quality of the surfer experience for me, I'd rather keep the rebills.

Brad M, I'm trying out your shit today on my sites. Let's see if it really sells as you say. :) I'm always willing to give things a shot.

I didn't post anything that could be right or wrong. I just made a comment.

People do sell/trade traffic, and I recommend they do it. I have upsell products as well, but I'm not blind to why people don't do it either. I understand why people don't want paid content, or free content, or any upsell. It's all makes total business since to a paysite owner.

But let me play Dr Right, upsells are worthless to the majority of programs which is why they don't use them. However if even one small piss company produced 1 extra sale a month, that's money in your pocket. So of course you think it's stupid everyone wouldn't do it.

Please.. upsells make fucking shit and everyone knows it. Now you can bitch at me.

Awesome. Just be sure to link to the free trial page directly if you are promoting RT. It makes a huge difference.

Nah. You're right. :thumbsup

I'm left middle, right in gov ideas.

It definitely depends what the upsell is for. Some webmasters may not want to upsell a product if it doesn't fit with what their paying members will want. In that case it may just be a nuisance to them.

I don't see anything inherently wrong with a webmaster not wanting to offer upsells. Some people are more about keeping the page exactly how they want rather than the money they could make selling someone else's product.

I have been open to some up sells for a long time. I will not fill my sites with them but a few is ok, specially if I make it clear it is an advertisement. I am always looking for some others as well to try or replace some I am not so happy with. Only thing I currently do not need at this point is content, feeds, or vod.

Depending on your niche, give fast size a shot too. The big payout adds up quickly.

See... just what a single webpage can do.
3919 3440 1:40 85 $6,305.00




I'm I right again, Brad?

Good thread guys....

Upsells have always been a bit tough.. Been doing them since I think 1996

Doc, Brad, everyone - you all made some good points and valid ones...

LOL I honestly am completely confused as to why you think I am arguing with you or being short with you. You totally misunderstand my posts - I'm a sarcastic person by nature.

No hard feelings at all on this end.

haha... dude, I'm not upset at you in anyway. I'm just being aggressive me.

Get a few drinks and ..., I love to talk, nothing like trash talkin either :)

If a program busts their ass getting traffic to CONVERT on their site... WHY IN THE FUCK WOULD THEY JUST GIVE IT TO YOU?!?!?!? Money simply isn't enough to justify doing this. They build their reputation up in the eyes of their members, and build solid brands and trust... This is worth MUCH more than your few dollars. Send traffic & joins back and maybe we'll talk. It's time to pay to play bitches!

The basic problem here is that very few in this industry know how to do things in moderation. It is either fleece the end user or offer them nothing at all in terms of content. People saying that upsells hurting retention is so cliche' Most people that say up-sells hurt retention say so because others say so, not because they have done any data crunching and can PROVE it.

Remember, we SHOULD be in the sales and marketing game. This means offering choices and opportunities for customers to give you more money. This does not mean you have to turn them upside down and shake every last cent out of them.

Does Walmart hurt customers when they have Tic-Tacs, People Magazine, and a soda pop cooler up at the cash register? Does Target hurt customers because they ask if you would like to open a Target credit card account and save 10% off your order and so on?

Even if up-sells only make you a couple $100/month then guess what? That is a couple $100 more than you had last month! If you have been turned off by up-sells then you simply haven't thought about them in the right way.

Of course you want to PLACE your product in a members area, it's the best quality traffic on earth, besides straight up pre checked cross sales from idiots. :2 cents:

Have you ever been in the members area of mayorsmoney sites.. They're packed with members area upsells.. most of them look like crap

People that listen and try new things have bigger better homes that closed minded sheep fuckers that live in boxes.

I thought most members areas were upsells, I guess I was wrong.
WG

If you are interested now, Ill push some traffic your way now, if all that stuff is behind us. :winkwink:

LOL remember that sales guy that kept trying to get your traffic and called you michael all the time

shit :1orglaugh

Bump, love the responses.

:2 cents::2 cents: