Will the adult industry ever can together to stop piracy?
 

Make that band together...

Are all of the companies too greedy to spend money to make more money? Why are there newsgroups trading passwords for an entire decade? IRC channels doing the same... Password trading forums open for almost as long... Now tube sites...

When will the industry as a whole put up money to sue these people 24/7. Sue the mother f'ers that upload shit to tube sites.. sue... sue... sue!

Press charges and work the criminal side...

If I owned a program making a million a month (and I know several that do a lot more than that) I would be suing people...

Our industry needs a version of the RIAA... Adult Webmaster of America Association. It needs to collect dues just like FSC does and use the money to sue these fuckers into submission. At the same time they need to forward the massive amounts of law breaking to the authorities and go after these fucks criminally. Nothing shuts down a website like the fear of going to jail.

Every US owner of a tube site would have their shit taken.. I mean house, car, possessions. Ill gotten gains are subject to seizure. Plain and simple.

If you own a program generating massive cash and therefor have cash to hire me to go after these fucks, get me on ICQ and make me an offer.

The music and the movie industry couldn't do it....

This is a smaller industry tho might be easier.

Fuck torrents... those require geeks... or the geekier of the bunch...

I am talking tube sites.... Those require anyone with windows installed. 99.9% of the worlds surfers can surf tube sites and figure out what they are doing.

In my circle of friends (not inside the industry) there are perhaps 3 people that know how to use torrents... 12 that still trust and use Kazaa, Limewire, etc... and another 150 that just surf and think PornoTube is really nifty... like tubular...

While torrents, limewire, newsgroups, IRC and password forums are hurting the industry they all required you to have a brain. They required protocol... No, not protocol the method of sending and receiving, I mean protocol as in signing up, asking in the right manners, etc... All that mumbo jumbo scares newbs away...

Tubes make things so easy... too easy... just click and watch.. No need to signup and have the man getting your infos...

Only way to really stop it is to focus on securing our content period. If you leave the door unlocked on the liquor store there will be a lot of drunk free loaders. :2 cents:

You are so dead on with this. The other stuff only takes the people who are able and willing to learn to do these things. Tubes can take any 50 year old with a pocket full of credit cards and make him a free porn surfer for life. He has to do nothing to get the porn he wants.

This is really hurting us. Why would anyone sign up for these sites when you know 80% of the stuff is on the tubes plus 80% of 50 other sites?

Nope - it makes far too much money for those who own the tubes to take them down. They may change names, change 'hands', or any number of things, including the infamous rogue affiliate excuse, but no, there's no honor amongst porn sales. :Oh crap

There's no stopping it. Not gonna happen. Gotta find ways to slow it down.

Password forums are the things to target if you ask me!

2 seconds on google and i can find passwords to any members areas, bangbros being the most popular.
Sites like twistys, ravenriley.com, realitykings and hustler are all availble for free and its easy for anyone to just login and download all the content...

Tube sites are the least of your worries.

Our industry is filled with greedy, lazy, corrupt, untalented, and uncaring fucks who are in it just for themselves and fuck everybody else, i.e. pirates.:mad:

Unmask the bastards and let them feel the heat of our attorneys, copyright laws, and content producers.

It's a long road; but, our choices are few.

Do yourself a favor and support legitimate content producers, your industry's organizations, and boycott advertisers on pirate sites.:2 cents:

Best of luck.... my guess is that money > ethics ... I dunno, some guys seem to be ready to take action, like OC CASH and jay, also A1R3K , but some of the biggest sponsors had illegal tube sites... etc...

Yup this is part of the problem. Sites are not secured well enough, so on top of that then you have the pw sharers going in and grabbing all the unsecured content and uploading it on top of it to tube sites so they can get virtual "high fives" from all the tube communities, torrent sites, content sharing forums, etc. If you kill tubes then the other sharing sites would get bigger. Concentrate on how to keep "your content" your content.

Maybe it's time for the mob to take a cut, for some protection.

everyone talks about it. What we need is a clear leader who wants to stick their neck out.

Locks only keep honest people honest.

wont ever happen, its a never winning battle, just like the war

I was talking about this today at lunch with my lawyer (also my cousin) and he was shocked that this was going on since copyright and intellectual property infringements are pretty open and shut. Then he asked the question "has anyone ever thought of a class action suit?" so I am asking has anyone?? It would work I think I mean all you have to do is win one then there is president. After that a C&D letter siting that the will happen to you if you do not remove all infringed content with in 48 hours would care much more weight. I think it would not only scare the people stealing but the people who enable them.

I had a boss who used to say that. Its very true.

And not having locks makes people who are normally honest tempted. :2 cents:

You all realize that most of the people viewing the stolen content have no idea they are doing something wrong right?

Guys, I wouldn't count on any court looking favorably on us doing anything. We make porn. The govt. wants us to go out of business. But at the same time...there is no need for anybody to have their passwords out. I use phantom frog and you will not find ONE working password for Claudia-Marie.Com
Now about the stolen content on tube sites. Well, StickyFingers I can't do anything about our previous claudia-marie vids being all over the place. BUT...I have read your posts the last few months. Did some research. Put my guy on it. And as of tonight our newest update in the members area is a h.264 mp4 streaming encrypted via adobe flash server.
So I quit whining and put my money where my mouth is and bought flash server, had my people put it on my server and hopefully that'll buy me a week or two before some 12 year old kid cracks that encryption lol

I disagree. Honest people are honest. If you need a lock to keep you out, then you might want to take a closer look at yourself.

As far as someone viewing stolen content doing something wrong, not sure I agree that they are the ones doing something wrong. That stigma would lay with the person that stole it, wouldn't it?

I am 100% with you on that outside of the torrent guys who really make up such a small % the average surfer does not know that what they are viewing on a tube site is stolen I mean look at the sites they have contact info, support, and advertising if any of us didn't know what we know we would look at those sites and think they are legit

The issue comes about when you have a community surrounding the "theft". Ok so lets pretend you are a member of some babe forum etc that on the forum you get reputation for uploading to rapidshare and sharing with the community. So you are a member of some solo girl site. Along comes member gimmegimmeporn and asks for said solo girl vids, pics etc. The site member having never been told they cannot share the content that they paid and downloaded thinks nothing of it to help out his new buddy on the forum. He gets the virtual "high five" via the forum reputation and thinks nothing of it, cause he was NEVER TOLD HE COULDN'T.

Now how many sites out there tell people explicitly that they CANNOT do what they want to witht he content they piad for and downloaded to their hard drive? Ill tell you probably next to none. Why? Because we as an industry have accustomed our customers to expect to KEEP our content for only a rental fee. Am I stupid here? Do people not realize that we are giving away our content for a one month rental fee?

So anyways that former paysite member now realizes that all he needs to do is ask to get free content. So off he goes, the crack in the boulder is started. They have a taste of the free stuff, and again they don't even think they are doing something wrong because the site NEVER TOLD THEM THEY COULD NOT.

Think about it.

RIAA hasn't really done anything to stop piracy. Why would the porn industry be any different?

I think the question is not how do we get rid of tube sites, but how do we offer something better than tube sites. I don't think we can get away from signup and giving info, but we can certainly as an industry do things to make them easier for consumers.

No this industry is fucked. With as much cock and balls running around we are all a bunch of pussies.

I've laid out ways to make a difference, anti piracy groups have started and when it came down to do something, to have an effect on sites it was all fucking crickets.

It's quite sad, and shows the real character flaw of adult, how shady this industry is. Most people said fuck it open a tube site, or other. You'd be amazed how many people on this board have ties to tube, rapidshare and other sites.

Everyone comes up with their own excuse as to why they are doing what they are doing, and have a loose ended incomplete reason to back it up, which most of the time it makes little to no sense what so ever.

People in adult do not look at the big picture or worry about how they will make their income in 5 years, and when a lot of people here and on other boards need to take a real job in a few years they are going to wonder what happened and wished they did something differently.

The cover ups and broing is out of control as well, look at GFY for example, most of the people doing something to fight the fight are banned, aussie_rebel "who I agree was over the top often", will76, rawalex, the list goes on and on. The guy who runs "removeyourcontent" is also banned, and he does a great service for many people.

sticky enough with the lockdown shit. i've been doing this for a long time, so have many others. if drm was the answer it would be used. i'm so tired of hearing this shit.

i have tried to get the industry together, multiple times. i'm tired. i'm worn out. i wasted valuable time that i could have been making money.

it's all in the pak groups hands now.

i'm still dead set in my mind that you cannot unite this industry. so be it. once i moved on to worrying about me and those who sign checks for me i found it easier to sleep at night and i'm making more money. go figure.

sadly this is the truth.

Exactly, I walked down that street with you man, what a fucking mess.

It's pretty sad really.

And the next person who says DRM is the answer needs to smash their face in a cactus, DRM can be beat in about 4 mins.

Do you even realize a many people involved in piracy do not live in US? How you are going to sue... sue... sue! :error

This thread is a joke right?

It must be. We are giving away full videos to tubes.

What the fuck is piracy at this point? There's nothing left to protect.

Nope. 345

Well, you have two options...

Do nothing and hope it gets better.... Keep an eye on the recording industries gross sales... This is the first time they actually had something occur before porn.

Do something.

I saw Airek try to do something. Perhaps the first something needs to be a fund that pays the someone running it. I make far too much to do anything for free.

One idea I had... OK... Take your cameras you already have and do some fake shit like gutting a chicks stomach open. Film roaches in time lapse eating a dead pig... etc, etc, etc... Now splice this footage into your regular video footage.

Something small and fast at 12 minutes and more often and longer as the video goes on... Then upload it to all tubes so that people are freaked out not knowing what to trust... Perhaps you can only have 2 to 4 seconds of this kind of shit in a 20 minute movie so that tube owners would have to literally watch all uploads... Something they are not going to do...

Take all of your surfers passwords... Run them against tube site accounts. Login as legit users with a trusted status... Upload shit as them... change the email on the account... fuck around.

I think 5 dollars submissions has some cheap labor to do these sorts of tasks...

pr0 can work on signing up hundreds of accounts and uploads of videos in the hundreds...

Now the admins are overwhelmed with crap...

Force them to change... make it hard on them...

And this I need to work harder to "protect my shit" stuff is just fucking ignorant. I do protect my shit, but people still fucking STEAL IT. Same for Airek, I know he works fucking really hard to protect the Shane stuff, but guess what people still STEAL IT. It's theft, it's against the law, in any part of the world, stealing is wrong.

With this rational that sitcky and others use is just ignorant. That's like saying if I had double dead bolts on my house and an alarm system and someone broke in and stole my shit anyways it's my fault for not "protecting my shit better!"

If I had a car alarm and the club, and my car gets stolen because I did not chain it to a street lamp and take one tire off to carry with it's my fault because I did not "protect me shit...." No fuck that, it was fucking stolen. Someone stole my work, my money...

If you steal, or defend, or rationalize with people who do this, you're a fucking idiot, plain and simple. There is no gray area to this.

I guess I have been doing this too long, I have these old school ideals on some subjects. And on this one, my question to you is, are you nuts?

I believe the thought process is "bulk." You are selling it in bulk, like licensed content vs exclusive.

First off continuing to call it DRM isn't even correct. There are OTHER WAYS to do this. There are ways to prosecute members that share content that could be implemented.

I ask again. Does anyone have in their member T.O.S. that the member is not allowed to share the content, and they will be prosecuted if caught?

Why do we as an industry allow people to keep content for only a rental fee?

Saying you have been in it for a long time is nice, and I really respect those that have been in the game for a long time, but saying you cannot secure content is poppycock. If you have exclusive content and are allowing it to be downloaded and kept for 30.00 per month there is a problem. By allowing this to go on YOU are helping to further dilute the free content overflow. YOU are allowing your content to be uploaded to tubes and torrents.

I don't care what ANYONE says on this matter. If you are allowing people to keep your content and not even TELLING them they are not allowed to share it you are helping the illegal tubes, and sharing forums, and newsgroups, and torrent sites, have something to draw that traffic in with. Stop whining about people trading, and using your content. Start focusing on how to stop it from leaving your members area. This isnt 2002 this isnt even 2005. This is 2008. There IS technology available to do this. Customers DO have the bandwidth to support a streaming only format. Eh fuck it. wasting my breath on this one. Ill just continue to work on better ways to secure my sites as best I can. Im not there yet, and not saying that I am, but I am trying and using the best methods that are available to me at this time. Bah Im off to bed. :(

Nope there are other ways to do this, and it is going after the member that shares the content. Ive gone over 3 or 4 different options to do this, and had a fairly positive thread about it and bunch of people hit me up on icq about the ideas, but hey instead lets continue to herd cats and cry about the content after it is up on the out of country illegal tube or torrent site. :disgust Ok really off to bed now.

All wars come down to who has the most resources either by having abundance of them, optimizing their use or both.

You want the tube sites to disappear, then you have to get at their resources, and constantly maximizing their resource use to a point where they will be balancing on a knife edge - never finding rest, but only misery for every breathing moment in their lives.

We are beyond diplomacy, and need to focus on opening all possible fronts, including:

Legal
-----
International lawsuits - make them spend money defending themself all over the planet.
File Police Reports with their local police - make them deal with their local police, so they never know when someone will be knocking on their door.
Start suing surfers at the tube sites - no matter if its just nick names, then it will get the message out that we are looking for them at these tube sites.

Market
-------
Since large parts of the industry is decentralized and egocentric, then it can be used to our advantage, when going after their operational resources. Ex. make a free tube script, where all the videos are really just the videoplayers from the big tubes sites - burn their bandwidth, while offering the surfers a superior site with videos from all the big tube sites at one site with minimal of ads.

People
------
Now, for getting to the people/sponsors how are paying these tube sites to steal content, then we must step up the game. Beside organizing specific days where they boycotted where they can see traffic drop or get media to write about it, then also make sure to extend that to the tradeshows - physical turn your back, when you see their reps, and make sure they know that working for that sponsors will mean you will never forget how they are pissing to the industry.

Underground
------------
No need to discuss this in public, but people stealing must realize that even the most primitive societies have a code of justice, where immoral acts become moral deeds. When the public justice system does not work, then the private justice system takes over :2 cents:

So, are people ready for war?

There is no way to stop it.

The only problem is that surfers who are actually wiling to pay a recurring subscription really want to download and keep the videos and I can't say I blame them. I would if I joined a site. Limiting your customers to a streaming only that they can't download and keep (very easily anyway) is only likely to make them cancel in frustration nowadays or alternatively if you have content that the really like, they will screen capture it somehow and post it to the file sharing forums out of spite.

you can't stop crime but you can, and have to fight against it

:2 cents:

yeah let forget about the fair use rights that are granted explictly by the same law granting you your copyright

lets forget that those fair use rights supersede your copyright

those people do have a right to keep the content on their hard drive

no they don't have a right to give it away, but that the fault of mpaa because they keep equating copyright infringement to stealing not fraud as it truly is.

Some good suggestions.

The new flash stuff coming out shows some promising. The problem with DRM in the past was it's so damn intrusive into the user experience. I remember one site having split their videos up into 6 different WMV files per scene. DRM on each that made you type in your member user/pass for each file. Then after 30 days you had to type it in again. How would you like to be jerking off and then every 2 minutes you have to stop jerking and type in your password. It's no wonder they are going to the pirated sources because it is a lot easier.

Part of the success factor of tubes is the fact that they are really convenient. There are others of course but the easiness is a large part of it. They are overwhelming proof that people can stream content. Yet how many members areas can stream content? Stream is a lot easier to protect without having the annoyances of DRM.

Excellent suggestions.

Maybe the subscription model can be modified then. Give them unlimited access to the videos for life (barring shared accounts) and make them purchasable per update.

Sitting here with my mate who has been shooting like me 30 years. We both want to know what's new?

This is just another arm of the porn industry and like the other arms it's full of "greedy, lazy, corrupt, untalented, and uncaring fucks who are in it just for themselves and fuck everybody else" so nothing new.

Hosted in the usa...

See sig :thumbsup

Sorry but again me and my mate are laughing. Score are one of the true big guys in the porn business. If you won't stick your neck out who will?

This is such a good example of how this industry works and it's thinking. When Acacia decided we were low hanging fruit who stood up and fought for us all? The big boys or the medium size ones? I seem to remember more rushing to pay the license than rushing to the plate to pay for for lawyers to fight.

Acacia was simple and if a few had the will to fight it could be won. Piracy is a bigger and more expensive issue and frankly this industry does not have the balls to fight and as we can all see some of the biggest guys, AFF, Brazzers, ect. show the truth.

This industry generally does not have the balls to go after Tube sites through the courts and that's the truth. Vivid or Wicked are going after Pornotube and someone is going after YouTube. We might get something on the coat tails of these but not a lot. Even if we did they would move offshore.

So what can be done to fight Tubes?

Produce content that's worth protecting. Most of the content we produce is very poor churned out stuff for a price. If you take down one blond teen getting fucked there are 500 other scenes all the same for the viewer. Make porn scenes that make the view thing "Fuck I want some more of this." and Tubes become advertising. Make scenes that are poor porn and the surfer rubs one out and moves on.

Make paysites so good, so cheap and fit the Tube Sites viewers needs so well that those who would pay, will come back to paying for porn. That would mean not paying affiliates $250 PPS on a full sign up and $45 on a $1 sign up and hell will freeze over before that happens.

And that's about it. The industry does not have the balls to go either route.

Spot on 100%

I came to this conclusion and said fuck it I will give sample clips to Redtube. I've fought enough battles and got fuck all out of it.

Spot on 100%

I came to this conclusion and said fuck it I will give sample clips to Redtube. I've fought enough battles and got fuck all out of it. Anyone know what happened to www.pak-inc.com ?