We need something BIG. Let's call in the dogs! ...My VISA rant!
 

Does anyone else here feel that our freedom of speech is in great peril? Before all this VISA stuff came down the pipe I was already feeling like I should move overseas as an expatriot. Pretty sad since my whole life I never considered there could be someone more patriotic than myself.

It doesn't seem right that VISA gets to pick and choose it's own rules when in fact they are the defacto currency for uncountable trillions of dollars. It doesn't seem to me that they are accountable to anyone for anything. It's like they are their own soverign nation.

People say that VISA is protecting it's ass or it's bottom line - I don't believe it. There are no hoards of consumers banding together to sue VISA for the actions of merchants. I don't want to hear a bitch and moan session about VISA's financial woe's when in fact they conspired some 30 years ago to create a nation completely indebted. Yeah, I used the conspiracy word. By virtue of the fact that VISA affects everyone, everywhere, they should be subject to the same scrutiny and fairness of other such far-reaching things.

I'd HAPPILY contribute to an organized effort, a war chest perhaps, of legal defense and public awareness funds. Let's get a prominent law firm or perhaps the ACLU to find something here that sticks. We all agree that CP, animal stuff, teen 'modeling' is wrong and should be abolished. Can you believe we were all excited when that was the first thing that hit? Well, now the other shoe has dropped and it should be plain as day to each and every one of you that the undertones of this battle are religious (at best) and that nothing any of us does online is acceptable to them.

Take for example what we are hearing now about 'descriptors' on credit card statements. Are they going to start printing "13 inch dildo" on people's credit card statements when they buy from Adam and Eve too? What happened to privacy? What about the tens of millions of satisfied customers that we all have? What about all the fucking perverts, will there no longer be a safe outlet for them?

The irony about the impending descriptor changes is how pissed I was when I managed my own merchant account because I discovered that not all issuing banks even printed my number on their customer's statements. How was I supposed to avoid chargebacks and give good customer service without them even doing that? And NOW they want to print full website names? Fucked up.

Let's make some fucking noise. Let's get word out to journals, papers, tv stations. The media is liberal, let's see if there isn't something here that appeals to their better judgement. Let's appeal to the masses of people that will support us and call their congressperson. Theoretically, there are things we can do here to effect change.

How about some law firm steps up to the plate? Most of the people around here won't contribute anything but I know that enough of us with means absolutely would if there was a game plan. Where the hell are all the lawyers that we see at the shows? There's money here, I can't believe nobody is chasing it.

Let's organize a class action lawsuit against Visa. They can't simply apply these new rules to adult web sites and let PayPal, etc, get away with their processing. The numbers will show that online fraud is perpetrated crosses all mediums and that it is a systemic problem.

Our current problem is two-fold:
1) Customers know how to beat the system and get a free ride. There is a whole subculture of people that are either too irresponsible to have the luxury of a chargecard or are just simply thieves. Let's run some statistics on people with multiple chargebacks!! I'm 27 years old and I've run about $400,000 through my chargecards - more than most will in a lifetime. I have two chargebacks to date and both are for mail order shopping.

2) The system is antiquated. They're enacting rules that simply preclude honest business people from transacting. Systems are hypothetically supposed to protect the innocent. I want VISA to show me a feasibility study that the bulk of online subscription and information based businesses can maintain a less than 1:100 chargeback rate. The burden is on them to show that it is possible. It's discriminatory that only adult services are being targeted. Everybody fucks and the only country that doesn't like to admit that is the US.

I'm just ranting. Fuck!! Why hasn't this made the news? Doesn't anybody see the big picture? The system precludes a 1% chargeback ratio as there is simply NO way to prove a purchase without a signature which is NEVER received when a service is purchased instead of a deliverable.

Some lawyer or group of lawyers needs to come forward. There's enough money to pay their salaries and also get some good PR everywhere. Let's make this a bigger issue people, somebody has to fight the good fight. We all agree about taking CP and the bad stuff out by getting their wallets - but now they're trying to neuter sexuality altogether. What is happening is just dirty.

I've got money so I'll always have my websites, phone sex, other projects. I don't mind that these new challenges will thin out our numbers a little bit, I think it's healthy that the industry grows up some. I do, however, object to the fact that this goes beyond legislating morality (which is commonly done) and to the extent of using the international banking system as a tool to say that we can't sell access to sexual material online. We're all sexual beings and that view is narrow and discriminatory. Don't think that could happen here? Uh, look at Australia people...

Next thing you know we won't be able to sell access to gay sites because it's obscene. You know, being gay is against god right? As if! We have to stop them somewhere. It's pretty fucking lame that our government is full of such inadequate investigators and prosecutors that they have to try and put us all out of business instead of getting the people that are truly doing harm.

This is like taking everyone's cars away because there are simply too many accidents on the road and then saying well there are still other ways one can get to work (walking, biking)..... when the obvious solution is to just add more policemen to traffic patrol.

I'm never voting Republican again... or Democrat for a first time.

:321GFY

Brad

If you are suggesting class legal action I am in...I think we should consider also serving CCbill, Ibill and Epoch as well...but I would rather put in $1k fuck it make that $4k (I have to pay $3k anyway as I use 4 processors) than pay visa...I am in...

I have to disagree about your view of the 3rd party processors. With all of the bitching I see about them lately, every one should still realize that they're our best friends through all of this. They need this all to work out, it is in their best interests to find a way that allows all of us to prosper.

They're clearly not pulling any strings at Visa or any other place, they're just as fucked as we are.

Brad

Brad you rant more than Dennis Miller.....LOL


I agree with a lot of what you just said, and I would pony up some dough to fund legal action.

The media is a bad idea for two reasons......one, they're not as liberal as they used to be. Most of the big media companies are owned by big corporations (read republican) now.
Two, even though there are people out there that will be irritated if we can't offer them the services we offer them now, nobody really cares whether or not pornographers make a buck or go belly up, nor would they stand in an open forum and support us.

Even non-religious people crinkle their noses when you tell them you're in the porn biz.

Take it to court, absolutely......but the media I don't think is such a hot idea.

Brad, I've been waiting for your long post on this issue. :) I read every word and you know how to contact me if you need money for this effort.

I would love to just grab a big piece of land, and raise my children how *I* see fit without worrying if the neighbors don't approve, practice the religion that *I* want to practice without having people call me a fucking heathen, and generally just do what this country was founded on... have my own freedom of choice without having to worry about what Society as a whole thinks of me or some old whorebag getting her Depends off-kilter and calling in the thought police (aka Child Services or any number of Gov't programs who just come into your house and ruin your life based on mere accusations of anonymous people)...

But here's the thing.
Move out to the middle of a big piece of land where you can do whatever the fuck you want without people bothering you, and then you become *more* of a target. The FBI creates a folder on you, they start asking around town how often you come down to buy groceries, what exactly you buy, etc etc and before you know it you've got some tanks and a few snipers sitting outside of your house demanding that you come out with your hands up...

I must go now. A black helicopter just flew into my living room and there's a Visa rep hanging out of the side of it with a bullhorn.

:winkwink:

Land of the free indeed

This is the new US Constitution:

http://www.genesis.net.au/~bible/bible.gif

HAHAHAHAHAHA......

You know if you're available I bet MassiveCock would love to take you out some time :1orglaugh

maybe try tv commercials similar to "the truth" ones about tobacco, outlining the case against visa to the public in such a way that they fear their freedoms are at issue. set up non for profit and take donations.

Id be in... I think the processors should be on the list also for sitting on this for months and not letting us know until 3 weeks before it takes effect. When they knew we would have no choice but to pay up...

then they colluded with each other (realeasing a joint statement) and price fixed so there would not be a mass exodus from one processor. Thats not competition my friends and in my opinion illegal. Unfair and ucompetitive business practices sounds right.

Hmmm.... It *would* be interesting to see the headlines "VISA tattles on porn subscribers". Maybe a well-worded press release is in order. :Graucho

I know you are frustrated Brad -- however, since you aren't a direct client of Visa, I'm not sure you'd find a judge that would let the case be heard.

One thing Visa would not want is to go thru discovery, since all their rules and regulations -- most of which merchant account holders will never see, since while they are sworn to uphold the rules, they also aren't allowed to look at the book -- would come out in the open.

I'm not sure what suing a third party processor would get for you, they don't make the rules, they have no choice but to follow what they are told by Visa, otherwise the alternative is... drum roll... NO MORE TAKING VISA! And then MC would be soon to follow no doubt.

If people think the processors like this sort of thing, that's not the case. It's a big fat pain in the ass of all of them, both from the standpoint of a reporting nightmare and they don't want to be the police.

scary thing is that Visa actually makes enough money to pull off those scenarios that conspiracy theorists dream up..

But seriously, this whole situation is crazy and while I would love to hear some solid legal advice on the whole issue (not just how we as businesses should act according to Visa regulations but also some comments on the legality of Visa's regulations!) But I doubt that will be forthcoming to anyone who doesnt fork out a ton of cash to a legal firm.

Just my two cents

Do you even live in America? From all of your posts you have a blatant lack of knowledge and seem to rely on baseless generalizations.

In fact the only things you ever post seem to be your nonstop spamming of "This biz is dead, get a real job" or some other sort of Anti-American propaganda.

God damn you're like a fucking little kid who learned his first joke and has yet to realize if it wasn't funny the first time, it isn't funny the other 4,786 times.

That's a nice personal attack, but the fact is that the real anti-Americans are those who would support an attack on the first amendment.

If you don't support free speech, you are anti American. John Ash-cro-ft has said before that he doesn't believe porn is covered by the first amendment. He has little regard for the constitution, that makes him anti-American.

If you support right wing religious dickheads who shit on the constitution then you are the anti American one. You probably don't like to hear it, but it's true.

Did I say anything about him not being a real American? No. I don't think he/she lives in America, although I could be wrong, therefore by definition he is not an American?

Did I say anything against freedom of speech? No, I am a firm believer in the first ammendment, and I made no content stating that I think censorship is a good thing.

Did I say anything about supporting religious dickheads? NO, as a matter of fact I despise any and all religions. Simply because most of them are self serving and hypocritical.

What I did say is that he posts anti-American propaganda, based on his own opinions rather then fact, on almost every single thread which can remotely relate the the subject. I'm guessing he isn't even a citizen due to his 'awe' over the 'mighty power' of the EU.

Or are you telling me you condone idiotic blanket statements on a mass scale?

Anti-American propaganda?

Come on now, you are overreacting - that surely isn't anti-American. You see, your right to live in freedom is being taken away slowly by the Bush administration and the organizations supporting him. I am not living in the US so I don't care much about it as long as they keep it on that side of the ocean, but do you care? Can you not handle criticism?

But Kimmykim, who are we to hold accountable?
We have agreements with the third party processors, so they are the ones who need to protect OUR interests. And if they do not or cannot handle that responsibility, than they are irrelevant and they will be an exticnt species soon.

The Bush administration will be gone soon. The patriot act had nearly all questionable portions ammended, and the rest are set to expire after a certain amount of time. Freedoms are not going away, the constitution will not be trifled with, and you can be sure any unjust law / act / whatever that is passed will be stricken down before long. The Supreme Court isn't a corrupt bunch of bible thumpers : ) (STFU about the DMCA).

I can't see anyone who can justly claim that they are losing personal freedoms at the hands of the bush Administration, or any other government sanctioned group. If anyone here is losing their personal freedoms however (sorry, VISA doesn't count) feel free to chime in and i willr enig all my comments.

Insulting/Criticizing American is all fine and well, as long as it is remotely true and you have a clue what you are talking about. But his/her comments are just downright fiction. Guess this wouldn't be nearly so annoying if the same comments were not consistenly posted.

Let me just say something and see how you like it. You and all your sites and products are raging pieces of shit. I feel I am qualified to make this statement aside from the fact I have never seen, met nor even talked with you prior to this thread. I have never visited your websites or tried any of your products, yet I safely feel I can ridicule them and make up false statements simply because I am trying to be cute/funny/rebelious.

Now let me say this at least 20 times a day nonstop, and lets see how you like it? :) Of course if I actually had visited your sites or knew you and made these statements it would be different. That is the whole point.

Oh and let me state one thing, I'm fucking proud to be an American, and I always have been (No 9/11 bandwagon patriot syndrome here) and while I recognize people are allowed the right to bitch about the USA whether it is valid or not, I also have a right to tell them to go fuck themselves :) Just seems like everyone is hopping on the "I HATE AMERICA BANDWAGON."

Is this another "perk" of not having our own merchant accounts?

I know there's already a class action lawsuit against Visa (by Walmart, Sears, et al) regarding another matter -- the letter is right here in my sock drawer (or is it filed in the hamper? :glugglug). Anyway, does anyone know if that case could be future-connected with this adult stuff in some mysterious, legal way? Not saying Sears is going to lift a finger for our cause, just asking if the results of that case could have any bearing for us down the line.


Then we know a weak spot of Visa? Let's drag them through discovery and get their rule book into the open!! :BangBang:


I think Brad was showing sympathy for 3rd party processors. I know I wouldn't want to be them right about now.

Understood, but I do believe you are taking Mister Brown Bear's comments too serious.

It is great that you are proud of being an American, I don't see anything wrong with being proud of your nationality. But please lighten up a bit ;-)

Yeah you are probably right, this is what occurs when I get cranky at 4 in the morning.

Sorry ^_^:Graucho

yes....better for you to move to Russia.... :winkwink: