The Adult Business Is Going To Shit
 

These torrent and rapid share sites are spelling disaster for many adult programs. Everyday more and more surfers are discovering these sites.

Many webmasters, as well as some programs, are having trouble just staying afloat.

The only sectors of the industry not being affected are the Cams and Dating Sites. Those are the only numbers that have not declined for me.

Webmasters need to find a new source of income until these torrent and "sharing" problems are fixed in some way.

We will see more and more webmasters making the exodus to mainstream.....

sig spot - oh wait - shit - no one is paying me for that either

Yes, I'm afraid the adult business is over. Everybody's sales have declined (except mine which are higher than ever) Those torrent sites are just too much for all the surfers turned "webmasters" to compete with when using their bullshit script built websites. So I guess that everybody needs to go to "mainstream" (whatever the fuck that means)

Please don't let the door hit all of you on the way out.

Me? I'll just keep on getting by the best I can here in this harsh adult website world.

I'd love to come over to that lucrative "mainstream" web world that so many are making the big dollars with. But I'm going to sacrifice and stay right here where I've been the last 10 years and just try my best to hang on.
I know it's a big sacrifice for me to make, but I'll do the best I can. I just hope those big bad torrent sites don't finish me off with all of that old and dated content.

Damn this is a tough job. :1orglaugh

Wake up, you don't seem to know what's going on. You can find many paysite's recent updates on torrents and rapidshares in a couple of days after release and we're talking exclusive content. Surfers just download the stuff and upload for everyone to share.

The solution? DRM.

Enough with the 2 girls and 1 cup already.

:1orglaugh

DRM would cost an arm and a leg! And like I said....they can upload shit all day long for all I care. They are STILL in my rearview mirror. Some surfer uploading shit to a torrent still has to outwork me. And that shit ain't gonna happen. No matter how much they try...a torrent is still just a big bunch of slow downloadable OLD content that is possibly infected with viruses.
But don't listen to me. Just go ahead and take off with the rest to the "mainstream" I'll just stay behind and "tough it out".
In my opinion the very thing that makes torrents so infuriating is also their main weakness. They don't have the ability to CREATE anything. So they have to WAIT until AFTER we actually make something for them to steal. And then they can only present it in a way that is completely out of context.
I know there are some people who like to live in a dump, and drive a moped, and eat cheap food. Those are the same people who like to download a movie from a torrent site. They are also the people who will never buy anything anyway. I call them "losers"
As far as I'm concerned 99.99% of the current membership of GFY needs to stop pretending to be in this biz anyway. Just because a person signed up for an affiliate program doesn't mean they are in the porn biz anyway.
They should follow the original poster on over to "mainstream". OR, go back to their jobs flipping hamburgers at McDonalds.
The real webmasters will continue to do just fine. It's called creativity and originality. Two things you never find on a scripted website OR a torrent.
And you can agree with me or not. I don't give a fuck. My bank account says you are wrong. My sales say you are wrong. My knowledge of entertainment says you are wrong.
Bit torrent sites? They can have all the shit traffic in the world. I'd rather have 1 GOOD surfer than 1,000,000 hits of torrent bullshit traffic.
The only number that counts is the one on your bank statement.

I feel you..
:winkwink:

I agree with you. Our sales are not down, and have grown every year. So when I hear the chicken littles, I have to wonder what porn they are peddling.

My move of some of our focus, and business to mainstream sites was alway in the cards.

I had got into porn to make the money to invest in other ventures. It was not to be in it for life. Our sales are growing every year, and while I do not believe in all this chicken little crap. I do concede some markets who fail to adapt will have issues.

The stuff we are selling off in porn are things we no longer need, or want to deal with.. TGP's, domains, certain markets. It has nothing to do with sales. It has to do with time management.

Case in point, if youtube/porntube/scantube/torrenttube was the death of all porn, clips4sale would not have grown by 100 times in the past year or two. People would not be paying $10 a clip.

:2 cents:

"No matter how much they try...a torrent is still just a big bunch of slow downloadable OLD content that is possibly infected with viruses."

you make some valid points, but regarding that quote...

a) im able to pump busy torrents at 500kps+... yes adult ones too.

b) as for viruses... well, no one seams to have been smart enough yet to piggy back any sort of virus via avi/wmv/mpeg yet, as far as i know. and most quality virus scanners have approximately a 2-4 hour delay as far as new viruses being added to their databases.

oh, what your eyes have seen in a year and a half!

You sir are ignorant. Don't you think you would have even better sales if there were no rapidshare or torrent sites anymore? Seriously, it seems like you have no idea of what you are talking about regarding torrent or rapidshare. Go do a search and check out rapidshare forums, some of them have ofer 100,000 registered users many of them paying for rapidshare premium accounts to download content at maximum speed. These surfers could be paying us instead of rapidshare et al.

It's fools like you that actually give me a chuckle or two, when I read your insightful comments. :1orglaugh

You judge a persons experience in this industry with the date when they registered here? :1orglaugh

Nothing gets by you does it?

Don't second guess Robbie, he's the veteran that knows all :upsidedow

It may upset him :1orglaugh

feel free to lay out your experience and put me in my place.:1orglaugh

They're probably underaged boys with no credit card - so they aren't even potential customers.

It's funny, because the only person in this thread so far with a clue is Robbie. Businesses that add value make money. First it was TGPs that would kill the business, then MGPs, then P2P, now torrents, etc, etc, etc....... markets evolve, but as long as you are adding value, you will make money.

So please, anyone and everyone who wants to leave the business.. hit-me up.. I can arrange for your adult-related business assets to be acquired.

This is not black and white. It´s true torrentz and tubes sites are taking sales out from SOME of our market, but it´s also true when Robbie says that most of that people will never buy a membership.

My sales are also very well, growing and growing, and these fucking torrents instead of killing me are forcing me to make better products. If all I want is to build paysites with scenes from DVDs, then I am fucked, that´s particulary the kind of market that torrents easily kill.

Come on guys, do you think that if you make a great product, presented very well, and you create a brand, you try to take it to a comunity level, etc, etc, do you think that won´t be sucesfull??? We have maaaany examples that confirm this...

But now, if you want to keep high sales with crappy sites, with no idea or clear niche, porn just for people who want to see a naked chick fucked by a huge black cock, then, yes, you will be the one fucked, because that´s really easy to find around.

So, I HATE torrents, I get crazy one I found one of my scenes there, but also I know that won´t be the end, I just need to make a better product.

I have a secret to tell you. It will blow your mind, really.



























People are still making money.

Question: When the market / environment / situation changes, what course of action do you take to ensure the future of your business (in this case, most commonly as an affiliate)?

Answer (Multiple Choice):

a) Complain on your favourite discussioin board
b) God forbid, try something that might actually make a difference

Hey guys, I'm just saying that torrent sites haven't affected me. You can quote traffic to those sites all day long. And I'll say again..I would rather have ONE surfer from my Grampland.com than 1 MILLION torrent surfers.
And to DirtyProfits....if you think I'm ignorant that is your right. No, I don't LIKE torrents. It pisses me off because I have skin in the game. BUT, at the same time they are weak. REAL weak. They don't create anything. I think of them as cardboard facades of a building. There is nothing there but an empty front. Whereas I offer a REAL site that has a foundation and real working parts.
And as I said...if you and avolongold are really all that worried about torrent sites then by all means...call me "ignorant" as you leave the "industry" that you really aren't a part of anyway. I'll stay behind here and continue to make money with my real sites. And the torrent sites will fall to the wayside as the novelty wears off.
In my opinion it just made guys like me have to sharpen our skills and work a little harder.
But on a side note...if I ever do meet a torrent guy that has some of my stolen content on his site...Yeah, I'll beat the shit out of him. Just on principle. LOL!

It's not how much money you make, it's how long are you going to make it. The problem with "free" porn is a whole generation of users are being trained that this is a free product.

I think I read that same thing in 1998 about our tgp's. LOL!

you're not worth the time and effort. move along :thumbsup

You need to add tangible goods like sex toys and such as well as advertisers to the way that they can make money. But hey trust me I am on the bandwagon that things are going to shit; believe me :)

I haven't said I was ready to jump ship, far from it. My dating and cam sectors have been increasing in numbers at a steady pace. Most (not all) of my reality and movie sponsors have been taking dives in the last few months.

I already make great income from both adult and mainstream. What i am saying is that many webmasters that i speak with are concentrating more and more toward some type of mainstream ventures while their adult sales are currently down.

Once again, i am by no means jumping ship on a industry that paid for my first home. I can adjust to change, i'm just saying that many webmasters are not thrilled with many of their sponsors inability to fight the torrent/rapid shares. They are sticking to fewer sponsors but promoting mainstream more heavy than before.

I also notice that Solo model sites are not affected by torrent sites as much as other adult sites. I guess its hard to create the solo model/girlfriend experience on a torrent site (ex: diary, personal emails etc...)

"Wireless is the wave of the future, the crown jewel in the electronic distribution and delivery of content".

Larry Flynt.

What do you mean "..is going..?"

Robbie,

I totally agree with your first post. I will stay where I have been for over 10 years:-) I wouldn´t life is to bad.

When i comes to drm (it is hard to write drm, makes me think of dmr and they owed us a shitload of cash) surfers simply do not like it, so that is not the way to go for sure if you want your members to stay and pay.

*hugs and kisses*

read businessweek dating sites are going bye bye.

been hearing/reading this shit since I joined the biz :)

I ment to say: "I wouldn´t say life is to bad."

*hugs and kisses*

Thanks for pointing it out Tony.

http://www.businessweek.com/technolo...tm?chan=search

Translation: I'm a sig whore. How dare you question my credentials?
:1orglaugh

http://traffic.alexa.com/graph?c=1&f...=3&h=300&w=610

Bittorents will always be the underground, however you have more serious problems of free porn.

Higher sales than ever? You are falling off the edge of the world at a riduclous pace it seems, and the tube genre is just begining and laughing in your face with the numbers they put up in no time at all.. They are upselling dating, cams and vod ppm porn with free full length porn movies..... A model I'd love to see continue to prove itself, ugh long term successfully....

I see ONE common denominator here, all the ones doing this are VOD connected..

Now, This may be for a couple reasons but I see this...

1. They already have the infrastructure/knowledge to handle these large download sites... (what happens when the rest of the industry builds to handle this platform?)

2. They have the "bulk professional content" model in place to use the free content to convert this other DVD Retail Titles in a new interesting digital fashion. (What happens when this gets so saturated and funds start decreasing rapidly?)

3. Pay per minute porn rakes in easy cash, and keeps them afloat for now.
(But as the VOD's expand, will the PPM stay profitable or fall from dollars into penny sales to complete with all the others???)

The ultimate question... When the business model fails, whats the fallback?

The entire affililate base is/will be wiped out, never to return.
The sponsors who are made, are caring less and less because, they think its
too easy to get into the game, and they are now all more in house based than ever before and dont even care for the affiliate base. So this is like a springboard for them to get away from paying affiliates.

So with those points, obviously you can see long term industry problems have arised... No worry now right? The fast buck is today... You all say you use it to build revenue for other things.. So I guess you all with this "attitude" would pimp your mothers and wives for a finskie..
Great attitude.. I hope you got large sacks of cash already hidden away
and you can enjoy that money you have now for the rest of your lives..
because your days of making money from porn are soon over.

5000 paysites everyday will be unleashing new full clips just to get their share of that TUBE traffic to stay afloat, but eventually so much will be out there and updated so freshly why are we going to the pay site??
Does exclusive content mean anything anymore?

Now skipping a whole era of time and problems, You will see It will soon lead to being only able to pay $5 an hour work for girls, and then the models get uglier and uglier and the list of "oh shit" goes on and on

And with all that aside you have some players who think they can builk a top100 alexa porn site quickly and sell it for $100 million dollars or some crap?

Heh, Uhgm, if I had $100 millions dollars, and see how easy it is to put up a tube site and give away the free porn for ugh say $500,000 in advertising
and whatnot, why am I buying your site?

Because it has traffic? and has been losing money?

Good Luck, May the best cutthroat win.....

This is a perfect example of what the Web is all about.

There are people on this forum who are good enough writers that they could be paid for what they're saying. But the satisfaction of saying what they want, when they want, without an editor, publisher or censor makes them give it away for free. That's part of the Web.

Freedom's just another word for giving away pussy for free.

So are newsgroups, P2P, Bit Torrent, Rapidshare and all that other shit.

Original content, dating sites, and Cam sites, they're a part of the Web, too, the part that makes money.

It's all part of that Internet thang. Some are making money, some wish they were, some are just having fun jerking off.

Something like that. Love and god bless.

Kesey Seven
We Be Lez

Hate to sound self-pluggish (well, not really) but paysite sales have never been better. Yes, there has been a small decline in our tgps/mgps but we're working on those to adapt to the changing environment.

A few years ago .. a few decent webmasters could make a affiliate program bags of money ... word got out that webmasters were making bags of money marketing other peoples products and the band wagon was soon filled with wanna-be webmasters all thinking this was the gold rush .. truth is .. the few webmasters that started this "goldrush" are fucking kingpins now ..and have the time to change ..evolve and move with the markets and they are still top of the food chain .. some of the webmasters out there that aren't making it should instead of whining about torrent sites and other p2p programs should spend more time watching and learning from the big boys .. there is still tons of money out there .. and with the US steadily approaching an economic turn for the worse .. you can be sure there are 3 things that never really suffer ...in fact usually their is a rise for the better .... 1. the church .. 2. Alcohol sales .. 3 adult sales ..people will need to sate their depression in one of these.. do your best to make sure they are all coming to you . just my opinion

Like I said before, nothing gets by you :helpme

:1orglaugh

You make some good and interesting points.

just a quick note, i am also referring to tube sites as well that are causing some decline in numbers to most adult paysites.

Wrong teksonline. Since you don't know anything about the people in this business let me explain something to you about that traffic report on Grampland.com
I was Ampland.com up until Nov. of 2006. And the majority of that traffic drop off is when my ex-business partner and I split up. At that time Gramp, Amp, and ShavedGoat worked in a synergistic manner together.
And again....I have to tell you, that you don't have a clue. I'm not "falling off the edge" of anything! LOL! And torrent sites have nothing to do with my amount of traffic.
Once I lost all my links on Ampland the traffic numbers fell quickly. But those were mostly surfers who were just curious and didn't do much. The traffic I have now is VERY loyal and VERY much golden. My numbers that count (sales, bank account, etc.) are now MUCH higher than they have ever been. So please spare me the ridiculous alexa graphs. They mean about as much as the numbers on Sex Tracker do.
And by the way...what sites do you own again? And what have you ever done?
Genius, just pure genius...
I'll say it ANOTHER time. I'll take ONE hit of Grampland.com traffic over one MILLION hits of bit torrent bullshit or circle jerked traffic.

I am not referering to your dropoff of traffic, It is a comparison to the rise of tube traffic sites in that URL, compared to your site which is declining which has been online years, to their sites which have been online a month or 3 at levels 25x your stats and just beginning

I now see the image sometimes doesnt show the other domains in comparison, so I suggest you take that link and pop it straight into your browser so it updates properly and you see how the traffic is being basically yanked away. And yes it's going to get worse are you prepared?

teksonline you still don't get what I'm saying do you?
They aren't taking ANY of my surfers. My surfers come to my sites because they are smart. They know that I build my shit by hand and NEVER fuck them in any way. They know that my sites are clean and safe and quality.
And they reward me with sales.
It's not that hard to understand. You put some pride into your work, tweak it, learn your audience and they will respond.
Grampland.com is a MILF TGP.
Again, you are misunderstanding the business.
MILF, right now, is THE most profitable niche. Trying to compare the traffic stats to sales is way off base. Guys that want to surf a safe, well organized site for MILF porn aren't gonna go to some clusterfuck torrent site.
That would be like you saying to a 5 star restaraunt that they must be "going off the edge" because McDonalds has so much more traffic than they do.
Trust me...bit torrents are not hurting me in anyway in my tgp business. My shit is real. Not one of the thousands of circle jerk script tgps.
The only thing that pisses me off about torrents is when they steal my original content. Does it affect my sales?
I don't know. I only opened the paysite at the end of April. And it has taken off beyond all my expectations. I've literally never seen anything get so profitable so quickly. So my answer is "no".
It doesn't affect me. It just pisses me off. But I get over that anger by seeing the growth each month in my income. And that is what I'm trying to achieve. Real growth. Real surfers. Real members. And I do my best to take good care of them and give them what they want.
As for all the 12 year old little boys who are jacking off to old ripped porn dvd's over on the torrent sites?
Good. Let them have at it. And then when they grow up and want to surf in style at a premium website that caters to them....I'll be waiting.
These doom and gloom posts are nothing new to me. Maybe if you actually get into the porn business, instead of just pontificating your observations, you would learn that every year we hear the same old shit.
It's always something new that's going to put all of us out of business.
I have a word for that: Negativity.
And negativity never has been successful for anyone.
Me? I'm just going to continue to work hard at delivering a product that I feel is what my surfers want. I'm going to do my best to entertain them and make them feel at "home".
Torrent sites can't do that either. They can't create, they can't innovate, and they can't give the surfer a human experience because they are nothing more than script generated bullshit that relies on old content.
And when I say "old", I don't give a damn if they are only 30 minutes behind me. They are still BEHIND me. And since they don't contribute or create anything they can NEVER be in front of me.
So all the teenage boys surfing those torrent sites with no credit card anyway can enjoy themselves and lead people like you to misunderstand those HUGE traffic numbers.
Meanwhile, people with money will continue to want better things.

Keep rockin Robbie. I know you speak the truth! :thumbsup

Just a few things to add here.

1. Anyone saying that torrents and the like don't affect their business is being naive. If not directly than in the very least a roundabout way they are affecting the entire adult market online in a negative way. However, I'm with Robbie on the fact that it's not the end of the world. Programs, affiliates and webmasters etc can and will continue to thrive, at least those who are smart, adaptable, and long-term thinking.

2. With regard to "more and more webmasters will migrate to mainstream", I think that those who are forward-thinking will have already branched out into the mainstream market. I started in this biz in the late 90's and one of the first things I did after launching a few free adult sites was to develop mainstream sites. Why leave stones unturned and money on the table?

Here we go again........

I wrote a big long theory about the increase in "traffic velocity" as explaining the use of worsening conversion rates as correlating to the increase in 'free' traffic.

The reality is the internet is like one big paysite doing X joins per month. At some point your 'rolling database' maxes out.. meaning, there's a rotating pool of customers of X times Y = Z. So, there are Z signups to go around every month.. some people drop out of the customer loop and new people are added.

The argument of the doom and gloomers is that the rate of entrance of new customers is far lower than the 'cancellation' rate, and thus the pool Z is getting smaller.

I don't buy this for a second. Early on the rate of growth of new people coming on the internet was so high, it skewed the numbers because of the growth rate. There were so many more new surfers as new people came on the internet for the first time, that is was many times greater than the cancellation rate.

What we are really seeing is the maturing of the internet, there are less and less potential customers getting online everyday.

As for younger generations being 'trained' that a certain product is free and therefore won't pay for it - it's complete garbage. People will ALWAYS pay for value. If they value it, they'll pay for it.

For example - digital music. Music is still a giant industry and billions of dollars are spend on digital music... even though many of us are 'trained' that it is free. The only people crying about digital music is old-school record distribution companies - ie middle-men. Their business is DEAD.. there's no room for a middle man anymore because te customer doesn't have to go to a store to buy it. So the artificial market created by music middle-men has been CRUSHED and music is moving towards a new equilibrium price. This will, in the end, benefit the artists and the digital distributors.

The equilibriums of each sector of the adult market are constantly changed by technology, overall trends in society, etc. Value moves around from various mediums, distribution channels, etc. The companies that make the most money are the ones who add the most value - who provide the service that the customer values the most, or who offers the most exclusive product.

What is the value of ripped DVD porn with the same camera angles, shitty lighting, the same over-exposed models?? What is it really worth to a surfer to see the same scene they've seen on 200 different sites, the same model fucking the same guy...

Content producers need to create strong, recognizeable brands. Economics is a wonderful thing, it is a self-correcting system that is always striving for equilibrium but is never actually in equilibrium.

Because that's worked so well for the music and mainstream tv and movies makers. I mean you never see music or mainstream movies on torrent sites. The fact is the music industry is giving up on DRM.

50 fuckin torrents

I am in this biz since 98 I think and I saw the sky is falling scenario coming up in regular circles. Today another guy posts it again. The adult biz is much more complicated than it was back then, but there is still money to be made. Of course without all these torrent sites and similar bullshit, we all would make more money, but thats how it is. Today, torrents are the shit, back then there were tgps with tons of free pictures ... and in the future ... who knows, maybe there will be some morons sending out free blue ray discs just for fun. But there will still be money to be made in case you know what you are doing.