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-   -   8 People Wounded in 2 Separate Church Shootings (https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=790821)

dav3 12-09-2007 05:57 PM
8 People Wounded in 2 Separate Church Shootings
 
Quote:
DENVER, Colo. (Reuters) - At least four people were shot in the parking lot of a large Colorado evangelical church on Sunday in the second shooting in a day linked to a religious community in the state.

Police said a gunman opened fire outside the New Life Church in Colorado Springs after Sunday services and that three to five people had been taken to local hospitals. No fatalities were reported.

Police said they had detained a suspect but gave no details about his condition or a possible motive.

In an earlier incident, 70 miles away, two people were killed and two were wounded shortly after midnight when a gunman entered a training center for young missionaries in the Denver suburb of Arvada, police said.

Police in the two cities said they were coordinating information but did not know whether the attacks were related.

However Paul Filidis, a spokesman for the missionary group in Arvada, said the organization did rent space for an office from the New Life Church in Colorado Springs.

The New Life Church, which has about 14,000 members, was founded by pastor Ted Haggard, who resigned in disgrace in 2006 after admitting to sexually immoral conduct.

Police cordoned off the New Life Church and locked down several local buildings. Colorado Springs Police Lt. Fletcher Howard said police were not sure if a second gunman was at large. One eyewitness told CNN he saw a young man wearing combat boots and with an assault rifle and a handgun.

Rob Brendle, associate pastor at the New Life Church, told Reuters by telephone: "It's been a dramatic day and we are participating with the police investigation right now but we are not at liberty to make a comment right now."

In Arvada, two youth missionary staff members were shot and killed by a young man who came to the door of the Youth With a Mission dormitory asking for a place to stay, the group said in a statement.

When he was told he could not be accommodated there, he pulled out a handgun and opened fire. Two other staffers, who were cleaning up after a Christmas party, were wounded before the gunman ran away.

The Mission is an international and interdenominational organization that trains young people to work as missionaries.

"Please pray for the families who are on their way to Denver for the critically injured young man undergoing surgery today for the staff and students who have been evacuated to another location for the apprehension of the gunman who fled the scene," Mission spokesman Filidis said in a statement.

(Additional reporting by Steven Saint in Colorado Springs and Ed Stoddard in Dallas, writing by Jill Serjeant in Los Angeles, editing by Eric Walsh in Washington)
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNe...Name=topNew s

J. Falcon 12-09-2007 05:59 PM
These guns are doing wonders these days.

BoyAlley 12-09-2007 06:00 PM
Jebus will not protect you from guns, not even when you're in his daddy's house.

Jebus = Weak Pussy.

http://www.gaymainstreet.com/TheStre.../misc/1483.gif

tony286 12-09-2007 06:02 PM
thats a shame.

dav3 12-09-2007 06:02 PM
It's not the guns, it's the crazy people using them.

Do you think this incident would have happened if every citizen had a pistol on them, and the shooter knew this before he went on his little rampage?

J. Falcon 12-09-2007 06:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dav3 (Post 13491856)
Do you think this incident would have happened if every citizen had a pistol on them, and the shooter knew this before he went on his little rampage?

Yes I do.

uno 12-09-2007 06:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Falcon (Post 13491860)
Yes I do.
Me too. :2 cents:

J. Falcon 12-09-2007 06:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by uno (Post 13491879)
Me too. :2 cents:
It's amazing how peopple living in the states still defend guns. You have out-of-control gun violence staring you in the face, with tragedies related to guns popping up every week, and still we hear the same shit "Guns dont kill people, people kill people." This has to be the stupidest arguement I ever heard.

pr0 12-09-2007 06:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Falcon (Post 13491912)
It's amazing how peopple living in the states still defend guns. You have out-of-control gun violence staring you in the face, with tragedies related to guns popping up every week, and still we hear the same shit "Guns dont kill people, people kill people." This has to be the stupidest arguement I ever heard.
How about a car at 100mph into a crowd of people?

Maybe we should all be forced to take mass transportation & not carry sharp objects. And only be made available the elmers glue they gave us in kindergarten. Not everyone is fucking Ralph from the simpsons...some of us are big boys who don't need to be told what to do J.

When people want people dead, they always find a way.

So in fact the argument still stands strong.

Like every community, from columbine to va tech....we heal...and we come up with ways to keep insane people from getting guns.

I personally believe that people who seek mental treatment should have their weapons (and drivers license) taken away for a period of 1 year minimum. And then given back on a case by case basis, with clearance from a doctor.

It seems to be a recurring theme, that these people have been treated for mental illness & have not gotten better.

Now (because i only make business posts)

The cost of such a project (interlinking mental health databases) and the privacy issues will infringe upon our civil rights...are far too high.

J. Falcon 12-09-2007 06:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pr0 (Post 13491955)
How about a car at 100mph into a crowd of people?

Maybe we should all be forced to take mass transportation & not carry sharp objects. And only be made available the elmers glue they gave us in kindergarten. Not everyone is fucking Ralph from the simpsons...some of us are big boys who don't need to be told what to do J.

When people want people dead, they always find a way.

So in fact the argument still stands strong.
Your comparison of guns to cars being used as weapons is ridiculous. The only reasons guns will continue to be sold at a mass rate is due to the fact that it is a billion dollar industry.

L-Pink 12-09-2007 06:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Falcon (Post 13491912)
It's amazing how peopple living in the states still defend guns. You have out-of-control gun violence staring you in the face, with tragedies related to guns popping up every week, and still we hear the same shit "Guns dont kill people, people kill people." This has to be the stupidest arguement I ever heard.
Hey guns are here to stay. What would you do, have everyone turn in their guns? The only ones complying would be law abiding citizens. No criminal will turn in his guns. Then the crime stats would be worse.

Not to mention the huge black market that would spring up and access once again would favor the criminals.

Anti-gun advocates foolishly believe there would suddenly be no guns. :1orglaugh


.

J. Falcon 12-09-2007 06:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by L-Pink (Post 13491985)
Hey guns are here to stay. What would you do, have everyone turn in their guns? The only ones complying would be law abiding citizens. No criminal will turn in his guns. Then the crime stats would be worse.

Not to mention the huge black market that would spring up and access once again would favor the criminals.

Anti-gun advocates foolishly believe there would suddenly be no guns. :1orglaugh

.
No, I dont think there will suddenly be no more guns. Unfortunately its a problem that lays very deep in our society. There is an entire (sickening) culture for firearms that is present in music, movies, video games, etc.

iSMOKE 12-09-2007 07:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Falcon (Post 13491912)
It's amazing how peopple living in the states still defend guns. You have out-of-control gun violence staring you in the face, with tragedies related to guns popping up every week, and still we hear the same shit "Guns dont kill people, people kill people." This has to be the stupidest arguement I ever heard.
Let me be the first to agree with you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by L-Pink (Post 13491985)
What would you do, have everyone turn in their guns? The only ones complying would be law abiding citizens. No criminal will turn in his guns. Then the crime stats would be worse.

Not to mention the huge black market that would spring up and access once again would favor the criminals.

Anti-gun advocates foolishly believe there would suddenly be no guns. :1orglaugh


.
Of course all guns wont disappear if gun laws were put in place. But anyone with at least 50% of the common sense of the average bum on the street could figure out that if you lay down some kind of law then of course crimes/tragedies would lessen. Think about all the kids that would still be alive if some fucking idiot didnt have the chance to buy a gun and leave it laying around. Think about Columbine/VT/Countless school shootings...would those things have happened if guns weren't so readily available?? Of course not. Anyone who says otherwise...yea you know. Sure there would be a "black market" increase... but isnt that where most of the non-law abiding citizens get their guns anyway?:1orglaugh What gangster on the street has his own registered glock in his drawz? If anyone feels the need to purchase a gun for home protection...dont go buy a 9mm because you think it makes you look cool and increases your self esteem. Get a shotgun, requires no real accuracy, kills in 1 shot and is harder for a small child to use on himself. Just my:2 cents:

L-Pink 12-09-2007 07:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iSMOKE (Post 13492043)
Let me be the first to agree with you.

Of course all guns wont disappear if gun laws were put in place. But anyone with at least 50% of the common sense of the average bum on the street could figure out that if you lay down some kind of law then of course crimes/tragedies would lessen. Think about all the kids that would still be alive if some fucking idiot didnt have the chance to buy a gun and leave it laying around. Think about Columbine/VT/Countless school shootings...would those things have happened if guns weren't so readily available?? Of course not. Anyone who says otherwise...yea you know. Sure there would be a "black market" increase... but isnt that where most of the non-law abiding citizens get their guns anyway?:1orglaugh What gangster on the street has his own registered glock in his drawz? If anyone feels the need to purchase a gun for home protection...dont go buy a 9mm because you think it makes you look cool and increases your self esteem. Get a shotgun, requires no real accuracy, kills in 1 shot and is harder for a small child to use on himself. Just my:2 cents:


So you are saying that crime will not noticeably increase if suddenly ONLY criminals have guns? Get real.

J. Falcon 12-09-2007 07:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by L-Pink (Post 13492057)
So you are saying that crime will not noticeably increase if suddenly ONLY criminals have guns? Get real.
Try reading his post again, slower this time. :thumbsup

iSMOKE 12-09-2007 07:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by L-Pink (Post 13492057)
So you are saying that crime will not noticeably increase if suddenly ONLY criminals have guns? Get real.
Point out to me where i said that:helpme

Take away the "get real" you threw in at the bottom, if you wanna use the quote tab, use it right.

Why would crime increase if gun controlllaws started tomorrow?

Looks like some of my main points were that a lot of lives would not have ended when they did if some gun control laws were around

iSMOKE 12-09-2007 07:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Falcon (Post 13492066)
Try reading his post again, slower this time. :thumbsup
:thumbsup :1orglaugh

L-Pink 12-09-2007 07:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Falcon (Post 13492066)
Try reading his post again, slower this time. :thumbsup
Sure accidents will fall, sure the black market is and will be where criminals buy their guns. I understand that. Do you understand what would be the results crime wise if criminals knew none of their targets could defend themselves. Crime would skyrocket.

The increase in violent crime would offset any reduction.

L-Pink 12-09-2007 07:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iSMOKE (Post 13492082)
:thumbsup :1orglaugh
Great, making sure only criminals have guns is your solution to the gun problem?

Huh?

iSMOKE 12-09-2007 07:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by L-Pink (Post 13492098)
Sure accidents will fall, sure the black market is and will be where criminals buy their guns. I understand that. Do you understand what would be the results crime wise if criminals knew none of their targets could defend themselves. Crime would skyrocket.

The increase in violent crime would offset any reduction.
I want to agree with you but im not sure i can 100%.

How would criminals know that none of their targets had guns????

Also, how often do you hear about someone deciding to murder another person with a gun but they end up being the one shot and killed because the "target" had his gun ready to fire at the same time.

Accidents will fall as you said but so will a lot of other gun related deaths.

iSMOKE 12-09-2007 07:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by L-Pink (Post 13492103)
Great, making sure only criminals have guns is your solution to the gun problem?

Huh?
I didnt say that.

But if you can give me a better solution or give me a valid reason as to why gun control a bad idea, i would love to hear. I'm very open minded.

iSMOKE 12-09-2007 07:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iSMOKE (Post 13492136)
I didnt say that.

But if you can give me a better solution or give me a valid reason as to why gun control a bad idea, i would love to hear. I'm very open minded.
***is a bad idea***

Spunky 12-09-2007 07:31 PM
Such a tragedy especially at this time of year

L-Pink 12-09-2007 07:36 PM
If it was illegal to own guns there would have to be severe penalties for the normal person to comply. These penalties would have to be in effect even if you used the gun in self defense. It's still possession right? Well as a criminal I now know the only deterrent during the commission of a crime is the actual presence of an armed police officer.

The murder rate includes crime victims not just targets of rage. Targets of rage may go down but victims of crimes will soar.

I grew up in a household with guns. I would no more have taken and used one of my fathers guns than I would have taken his car keys and used his car.

Accidental shootings are tragic in that the parents didn't show good judgement. Rage shootings by troubled kids are also tragic but are not a good enough reason to prevent me from being able to legally protecting myself.

iSMOKE 12-09-2007 07:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iSMOKE (Post 13492076)
Point out to me where i said that:helpme

Take away the "get real" you threw in at the bottom, if you wanna use the quote tab, use it right.

Why would crime increase if gun controlllaws started tomorrow?

Looks like some of my main points were that a lot of lives would not have ended when they did if some gun control laws were around
Gun Deaths - International Comparisons

Gun deaths per 100,000 population (for the year indicated):
Homicide Suicide Other (inc Accident)

USA (2001) 3.98 5.92 0.36
Italy (1997) 0.81 1.1 0.07
Switzerland (1998) 0.50 5.8 0.10
Canada (2002) 0.4 2.0 0.04
Finland (2003) 0.35 4.45 0.10
Australia (2001) 0.24 1.34 0.10
France (2001) 0.21 3.4 0.49
England/Wales (2002) 0.15 0.2 0.03
Scotland (2002) 0.06 0.2 0.02
Japan (2002) 0.02 0.04 0


Thats what gun control looks like compared to this great country:thumbsup

L-Pink 12-09-2007 07:42 PM
The recent mall shootings in Kansas, the Va, Tec shooter, the Columbine shooter ..... these were all troubled young men, on medication, with know behavior problems. Fuck-ups plain and simple.

What do they have to do with me owning a firearm?

L-Pink 12-09-2007 07:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iSMOKE (Post 13492185)
Gun Deaths - International Comparisons

Gun deaths per 100,000 population (for the year indicated):
Homicide Suicide Other (inc Accident)

USA (2001) 3.98 5.92 0.36
Italy (1997) 0.81 1.1 0.07
Switzerland (1998) 0.50 5.8 0.10
Canada (2002) 0.4 2.0 0.04
Finland (2003) 0.35 4.45 0.10
Australia (2001) 0.24 1.34 0.10
France (2001) 0.21 3.4 0.49
England/Wales (2002) 0.15 0.2 0.03
Scotland (2002) 0.06 0.2 0.02
Japan (2002) 0.02 0.04 0


Thats what gun control looks like compared to this great country:thumbsup
Please remember my argument is not that the world would be a better place without guns. It would be. My argument is that guns are here. Laws to reduce possession of guns will only affect the legal use and ownership. The illegal use will soar without the threat of personal defense use.


.

iSMOKE 12-09-2007 07:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by L-Pink (Post 13492177)
Well as a criminal I now know the only deterrent during the commission of a crime is the actual presence of an armed police officer.

The murder rate includes crime victims not just targets of rage. Targets of rage may go down but victims of crimes will soar.
.

Accidental shootings are tragic in that the parents didn't show good judgement. Rage shootings by troubled kids are also tragic but are not a good enough reason to prevent me from being able to legally protecting myself.
Only deterrent is an armed police officer?? How? People run away all the time when they see lights come on or hear alarms.

Maybe victims of crimes will soar, but why?

Sure, parents didnt use good judgement, thats because here in the USofA we give guns to any and everyone. Eliminate handing out guns and you eliminate bad parents getting them.

How many times has a person broken into your house and you had to use your gun to defend yourself? I bet not as many times as a 6 year old has shot himself in the head.

How many times has your dad had to use his gun?

3.98 DEATHS PER THOUSAND PEOPLE IN THE UNITED STATES!

0.4 deaths per thousand people in Canada??
0.15 in England??
0.02 in Japan??

Come on L-Pink. Just think about it.

I cant say for sure, but i doubt if gun control laws got laid down tomorrow, criminals with guns would just start running wild shooting innocent people...Sounds like thats what you are saying.

iSMOKE 12-09-2007 07:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by L-Pink (Post 13492197)
The recent mall shootings in Kansas, the Va, Tec shooter, the Columbine shooter ..... these were all troubled young men, on medication, with know behavior problems. Fuck-ups plain and simple.

What do they have to do with me owning a firearm?
Yes they were.

It really doesnt have anything to do with L-Pink owning a firearm.

It just shows what making guns readily available to anyone with the almighty dollar in their pocket does vs. gun control.

iSMOKE 12-09-2007 07:59 PM
http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thu...un_control.jpg

iSMOKE 12-09-2007 08:04 PM
http://thesituationist.files.wordpre...ontrol-pro.gif

L-Pink 12-09-2007 08:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iSMOKE (Post 13492274)
:1orglaugh

iSMOKE 12-09-2007 08:18 PM
http://www.thismodernworld.com/media...un-control.gif

dav3 12-09-2007 10:04 PM
Looks like the headline on Reuters was updated to 9 shot. :(

iSMOKE 12-10-2007 01:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dav3 (Post 13492691)
Looks like the headline on Reuters was updated to 9 shot. :(
Damn, sucks...:disgust

Phoenix 12-10-2007 01:31 PM
its ok..as god didnt want those people around
they should take it as a warning...next time it will be thundebolt or a flood in their home


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