lets talk about art
 

I have recently obtained 2 pieces.

maybe corvette will appreciate these.

one is a picasso 1968 litho signed #11/300
http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/upl...72d6824119.jpg

http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/upl...b8e2dfe1d0.jpg

btw for the haters. I have not yet recieved the 2nd one, it was purchased today. will have it on my wall shortly though.

You hung that first one the wrong way dude. It's like all sideways and shit.

Mosquetero is the name of the 1st one

So..... what exactly do you want to talk about?

Lithos are pointless, in my opinion. They aren't unique, and the only reason for their limited editions is to artificially inflate prices. You might as well go for reproductions.

I much prefer originals, especially originals by lesser-known artists. Those give you the chance to discover and own true, unique beauty.

you are certianly entitled to your opinion, however, these are for investment purposes and I bought them way below apprasied value.

I'm a huge fan of art. Remember the golden rule: buy what you like, not what you think is gonna make you money.

Warhol, Basquiat, Rauschenberg, Motherwell, and most recently The Clayton Brothers and Ryden are all favs!

I went with both, i like them both and i think theya re both going to make me money when i decide to sell them if i do

I collect folk art. When you're at a county fair and walk past a booth where someone's selling paintings that look like a 4 year old painted them on a block of wood and you ask yourself "Who the fuck BUYS those things??!!".. The answer would be: Me ;)

I live in a log cabin - a Picasso wouldn't exactly fit the decor. Brightly colored flowers, fish and roosters do. I actually even have some pieces that are worth a couple of thousand thanks to the artist being a bit famous and then dying.

But mostly I buy them because I like the purty colors :)

Picasso lithos mostly sell between the high hundreds and low thousands. Hardly worth investing in. Besides, Picasso isn't likely to suddenly become vastly more popular and there is no shortage of lithos of his, so quick price rises are unlikely. At best, you'll get the equivalent of a decent interest rate.

If you want to invest in art, it is best to buy original works of fairly obscure artists who have been dead for a few decades and who have gained more attention in the past few years. That ensures a limited supply, isn't very costly, and makes it likely that prices will rise quickly.

Of course, even then, investing without an extensive knowledge of the subject is a risky endeavor.

Then again, to me art is like wine - something to enjoy, rather than to invest in.

Yay!! P1mpdogg bought something new today!
What'll be tomorrows thread? New guns? Art? Toe nail clippers???

I can hardly wait to find out!!!!

http://www.weeklyreader.com/readandw...20excited.jpeg

What are they worth? About 15k each

whats the point of an apprasil then if you say they arent worth it. they got that number from somewhere right? based on previous sales possibly?

so lets say i paid 10k for soemthing worth 40k

you think im going to lose out?

I hardly think so

and to say they sell in the low thousands is funny.

there are tons that go for far more than that

65k-75k... combined

I have a friend who owns a few of the originals and also monet and a few others. Has an awesome collection, and from time to time sells one. Just to buy a few more.

Sold a monet for about 2.3mil no long ago.

Ummmmmm.... :error:error:error

http://www.masterworksfineart.com/in...picasso.htm#22

Title: Le Mousquetaire (The Musketeer), 1968
Medium: Original Color Lithograph
Image Size: 18" X 11 ¾" (45.72cm X 29.85cm)
Sheet Size: 25" X 19" (63.5cm X 48.26cm)
Framed Size: approx. 39 ½" X 33" (100.33cm X 83.82cm)
Signature: This Work Is Signed By Pablo Picasso (1881 - 1973) In The Lower Right.
Edition: Numbered from the edition of 300 In The Lower Left Hand Side Of The Work.
Condition: This Work Is In Great Condition.
Lithographed by Henri Deschamps, Paris.
Printed by Mourlot, Paris.
Price: $17,500

http://www.masterworksfineart.com/in...picasso.htm#70

Title: Harlequin, from the "Barcelona Suite" (1966)
Medium: Offset Color Lithograph
Image Size: 22 1/2" x 17 1/2" (57 x 44.5 cm)
Sheet Size: 27" x 21 ½" (68.6 x 54.6 cm)
Framed Size: approx. 45" x 38" (114.3 x 96.5 cm)
Edition: numbered from the edition of 60, lower left
Signed: Picasso in pencil, lower right
Illustrated in: Czwiklitzer 230.
Published by: Museu Picasso, Barcelona.
Price: $16,500

:helpme

Actually, Picasso created more than one Mosquetero (Musketeer) painting.

The one that you have displayed sideways is titled, Mosquetero con Pipa (Musketeer with Pipe), although the photo is simply in the wrong orientation (90 degrees clockwise).

But you knew that... :winkwink:

ADG

Art is a much more irrational market than, say, real estate. The value of works is often highly dependent on the context you sell them in. As part of a larger, coherent collection, for example, individual works are much more likely to draw audiences at auctions and galleries that are willing to pay high prices for specific works they particularly like in their general interest area.

Art appraisal is a bit like domain appraisal, with the one difference being that art generally has no direct commercial application at all. That makes it extremely hard to separate the numerous unreliable or even insane appraisals from the few good ones.

The only way to reliably make money in the art industry is to be an expert yourself, and even then it isn't a sure bet.

Clicked on that link, and clicked on the detail, and it is in fact the very same 11/300 litho...what a coinkydink! :1orglaugh

http://www.masterworksfineart.com/in...casso/musk.jpg

I want to see a photo of p1mpdogg posing next to his "investment" litho, preferably in a robe with an ascot and a pipe in his mouth... :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

ADG

yes i knew that, i tilted the camera to get the full shot homo

Buy what you like and don't worry about what it's worth. Life's to short to have something you're not in love with hanging on your walls :) And if you get something really cool be sure to get one of those fancy spotlights for it ;)

I guess you never heard of cropping, or after shooting the photo, correcting the orientation.

Better to have people turn their heads sideways to gaze upon your masterpiece... :winkwink:

Quite an investment - your lithos were for sell (combined with discount) for about $30k for the two of them, and yet you say they are worth $65 - $75k now. :error

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

ADG

thats what the appraisals say.

you want to argue with a professional appraisal ?

go right ahead.

0WN3D.....!........4G4IN......!:1orglaugh:1orglaug h:1orglaugh

its the same broker dipshit

:helpme :helpme bump for u

can't wait for the pics of you posing in front on them while hanging on
the wall of your new Vegas penthouse :thumbsup

I'll stick around long enough just to see that :1orglaugh

the ownage in this thread is severe

:1orglaugh

Oh, great. The silly fag speaks up.

I actually do have a good price of what Picasso lithos sell for, which is exactly why this thread is so funny. Pimpdog's idea that the appraisal he got somehow is a better indication of market prices than the actual price he paid at a mainstream art dealership (which generally have somewhat inflated prices in the first place) is funny. And please note that the prices I mentioned (low thousands are actually indicative of what he paid (around $15k a piece - so low thousands).

As for your perception of art prices... you are mistaken, mostly. While it's true that over the past 25 years or so, art prices have risen quite a bit, much of the growth in art prices has been in high-end originals. That some unique pieces have sold for $100M+ does not mean that low-end litho values have exploded.

Now, as for your comments on me, personally. I'm fairly sure that I'm quite a bit more successful at selling pussy than you are. Also, why I'm not an expert on art, my father is (as in, professionally), and I've picked up a fair bit of knowledge from him.

Here's a thought: just because you suck cock, does not mean you know anything about art.

a few years ago p1mpdog used to be a gay cam model, and all of the sudden he is coming off as a pseudo intellectual.

ironic.

Sure.

Your appraisal consists of the opinion of someone working in the field, who may or may not actually have insight.

The price you paid, you paid at a professional dealership, which has prices set to such a level that they are the highest price at which the dealership considers it likely that the object will be sold.

See how that works?

Getting great deals (eg, buying art for less than 50% of its real value) is something that will virtually never happen when you are buying from a professional and experienced dealership. If you want deals like that, buying from private collections, buying from inexperienced dealers and buying at small auctions is your best bet. Of course, to recognize the deals, you'll need to be an expert.

That is not to say you won't make a profit on this, of course. The profit just is likely to be in line with the rise of general art prices. (and, obviously, if in a few decades there's a large revival of interest in Picasso, you might make a lot more - you will need to follow the art market for that, though, and will probably need to have a lot of patience)

everything you are writing is your opinion though.... i am quite sure there are many people that would beg to differ from everything you just wrote.

whos to say you are the right one and everyone else is wrong?

the sad thing is, is that i simply posted photos of something i have purchased and I am wrong for it lol

if the apprasils say they are worth somethig, then who the fuck are you to tell me they are wrong adn you are right?

these things are only worth what someone is willing to pay.

so you will never possibly be right about the value of what i have ebcause you havent the slightest clue what I will get for them in the future.

so wtf are you arguing to me about? mind your own business if you dont like it and dont try and school me on art becuase I could really care less.


this is nothing to me, its no different than a classic car, or a nice piece of jewlery.

they will sell for what someone is willing to pay. its that simple.

What I'm saying could prove to be entirely wrong, of course.

I'm merely giving you my thoughts on the matter, in the hope that they might prove useful to you.

All I'm really trying to say is that with art, as with domains, it is best to be wary of appraisals. If you're going to invest in something, it might be wise to get a comprehensive understanding of the market, so that you will be able to judge appraisals yourself.

then next time say that instead of making it into some big drama like I screwed myself or other misleading bullshit.

at the very least I have soemthing that i actually like and looks good where it is.

not many people can say they own a piece of history wither its a print, a lithograph or an original signed by the man himself.

i could feed it to my dog and get the insurance on it and collect double what i paid.

stranger things have happend.

Art is a good investment.

I'm actually not assuming that these objects were bought at a high end gallery. I am assuming, and I think I am correct in that, that they were bought at a rather visible and professional dealership. Those, from what I have seen, have a tendency not to greatly undervalue objects.

Appraisals are generally based on few recent and visible sales of fairly similar objects. The problem with that is that that typically represents the maximum of what one could get, rather than giving a good indication of how likely it is to make a sale based on a given price.

A good example of this problem is my father. Some years ago, he found some good sources of 15th and 16th century icons. Not being an expert with regards to that specific material, he got some expert opinions, which confirmed his suspicions that he could acquire them at much lower prices than the typical market rate.

Only after having acquired a number of them did he find out that although auction prices tended to be rather high, there wasn't enough demand for him to be able to sell many of them. So, to this day, he has entirely too many of them hanging on his walls in every conceivable place :1orglaugh

What I'm trying to illustrate is that while appraisals can give decent indications of what rare pieces for which there is a high demand will make in very specific contexts, in many cases they paint a rather unreliable picture of what something will sell for.

If that wasn't the case, every art expert would easily become extremely wealthy simply by buying up loads of art from dealerships and selling them at high end galleries and auctions. Some do this in reality, of course, but finding good deals is very rare, and very visible dealerships often aren't the best place to find them simply because their prices tend to conform to standard market values already.

As for the market trending upward, that trend will probably continue - although, with the recent commercialization of art, a slowdown should be expected to occur, simply because much current art is already held as a form of investment, and the untapped commercial potential of the art industry inevitably gets smaller as business continues to tap it :)

To keep up with or even beat the general trend, though, it is necessary to follow specific interests and hypes, at least partly. Because while art prices are growing, they are certainly not growing evenly across the board.

I was wondering why teh BoyAlley was getting all defensive about p1mpdogg, and then I finally remembered that he posted a few months ago about getting into the mainstream art selling biz himself...(if you think there are lots of scammers in adult, you should check out the art dealer market, not saying our gay friend is a scammer).

Looking back at this thread, BoyAlley seemed to know a lot about this particular purchase.

If my guess is correct, there should be some pretty good drama when p1mpdogg tries to sell his "investments"... :1orglaugh

As some of you may know, my wife is an artist (I have posted some of her oil paintings before). While I am by no means an art expert, I have studied art history, I belong to a handful of museums, I have been to some of the great museums of the world, and I purchase original art (except for a few John Lennon signed and numbered lithos that I have no intention of selling regardless of how they value).

ADG

So what was your commission? :winkwink:

ADG

$10 million?!? We both wish! :1orglaugh

I'll be happy to look at your gallery as long as it's not filled with homoerotic stuff (not that there is anything wrong with that - well, except for that Maplethorpe bullwhip in the ass photo, it's just not my thing)...

ADG

Very nice, I just added this one to my collection:

http://www.photochrome.org/images/mo...aby-Stacks.jpg