5 programmers now have flaked on me
 

I'm just fedup. Accepting project, disappearing, ignoring, still posting, blah blah blah. It's just stupid. Own up to overbooking yourself before when you say you'll be finished.

TexasDreams, could you contact me on ICQ? 129060301 Or anyone have his ICQ?

What is it that you need?

maybe its time to get a book and do the coding yourself, lol

With what project?... so many things.. some smaller projects.. latest was template system similar to AutoGallery, doesn't need to be as complex, but just that loads a template file where it reads format to display galleries in, and then places gallery listings in stated locations.. and output into $contents variable.

I can already, I have better things to do though.. and I'm working on other parts / aspects. More work I want done than I want to do myself, plus I'd rather be out for a walk than coding..

I have a very good connection who can find you a good programmer. ICQ me at 92403502


very dependable

Buy a script next time. I stopped hiring coders since they wanted the same ammount of $ of a commercial script that was 10 times better than the services they offered.

As a fellow independent programmer here's a few tips:

- Us programmers think we're much better than we really are, so when a programmer gives you a time frame double it and you'll have an semi accurate figure.
- While we may be the fucking baddest ass programmers to exist, we often lack basic business and social skills. So a week into the project we might decide that we gave a price to low or are not capable of completing the project so we'll just go poof, vanish and disappear! So be sure to always maintain communication and pay after work is completed or use an escrow service.
- We really don't care about your deadlines.
- A few of our family members may get sick and die - multiple times. Being a programmer is an EXTREMELY dangerous job for everyone involved so keep that in mind.
- We're big procrastinators, going back to number 1 we think we're king shit and the fucking best, so for a 8 week project we may think we can get by and bullshit the first 6 weeks and get everything done in the last 2, at which point family members begin getting sick and suddenly dying ;). So be sure to keep an constant eye on progress and demand daily/bidaily updates.

I think they all know you're crazy dude.

Customization is the issue.

FreeHugeMovies - I'll contact you tomorrow...

Customization is the issue.

FreeHugeMovies - I'll contact you tomorrow...

I sent him a link to this thread

Thanks for the tips... they seem very accurate.. :)

Pipecrew - I'm starting to wonder what your insecurity was caused by in your past. Out of curiousity, what are the percentiles of your intelligences?

So you are a lot like designers.

Thanks bd. :) Much appreciated.

WOW, you hit the nail right on the head with that, its so true. Ive been through three and they are all the same. for the money we pay you guys.... :mad:

Just assume it's really $1 / hour and it matches up..

Exactly happened to me. I lucked out on my 3rd web designer after giving him a simpler assignment (build a website template) instead of building a CMS-powered website.

Now I can cut and paste the simpler website myself...

Huh!?!?!? :helpme

I wasn't implying TexasDreams had anything to do with this folks... I didn't even know he programmed, my apologies. :)

You're welcome to remove the 'TexasDreams, could you contact me on ICQ? 129060301 Or anyone have his ICQ?' if you want.. hehe..

That's just a stupid comment - sure a commercial script costs less, because the programmer of the script recouperates his costs from selling the script. A custom programme takes time to write and time costs money. DO you expect to pay $50 for a few thousand lines of code and a hundred man-hours? Get real.

I always give a full free consultation report for large projects, which is a detailed report report broken down to milestones. Each milestone is described in detail with a timeframe and cost. That way, I know in my head exactly how things need doing, and how long they will take. And it shows the customer what to expect and how the project will proceed. Because of this method, I'm on-time 90% of the time and that remaining 10% of the time is only an overrun by 20% of the time in the vast majority of cases. In the very rare instance where it overruns too long, the customer gets a large rebate.

It's all about professionalism - if you get a coder who says 'yeah I'll do it for $X in Xweeks' after 10 minutes of ICQ, then you're heading into dangerous waters...

:2 cents:

From my experience the more you bother them with updates the more belligerent they become. On the other stroking their ego (e.g. acting dumb when they speak so they can impress you with techno-talk and then snicker to their irc buddies about their idiot client who doesn't know crontabs from corndogs), respect their innate territorialism and throwing a steak with cheesies and a cold Orange Crush under the door once and awhile seems to work well.

(No offense intended if you are a programmer reading this - I wasn't talking about you specifically)
:)

Holy shit, you know me so well lol.

Retired freelance programmer for 5+ years and yeah thats how it goes. But come on our code is way better then paki code and you know this. They over complicate shit. For example they go from C++ to PHP and start writing complex bullshit functions and classes for things php has built in.

Anywho.. la la

to avoid serious headaches this is how you have to work with programmers, designers etc.

example 1:

you hire a programmer he says "thanks for the business ill start working on this tomorrow morning" if he didnt start the next morning, regardless of what happened you need to move on, do not bullshit yourself

example 2:

you hired a designer all is well, he sends you some sample of something thats all different then what you wanted you see his skills is not what he you hoped for, dont argue dont explain, just move the fuck on.

I do it all the time (after major heartache of not living like this) I am fair if its a point work has been done ill give them some money.

In these days I hire a few designers to do the same shit at the same time, I pay em all and the designs I dont like I just trash, time is money.

and remember this:

the alaska 800 mile pipeline took 3 years to build

the empire state building too 410 days to build

your fuckin stupid web app shoulnt take months to build I dont care what the fuck it is

you need to find a guy that can dedicate serious time, and if by day 3 of the job there is 0 to show FUCK HIM move the heck on

Once a fuckup always a fuckup, people with excuses always have new ones

nysys: one word... d00t @ piminpays

hes good fast value for money and doesnt run

Fuck me dead if this isn't the funniest comment I've ever read on these boards. My experience with programmers is exactly that - I just assume you are all vague dope smokers who will get it done when you can be bothered - which means asking 2 months ahead of when I actually really need the work completed.

Nice post :thumbsup

Opps, sorry to hear of your woe Nysus - agreed on the going for a walk front, gave up the coding side of things myself 5 years ago, better things to do.

After the 4th I'd start to wonder if maybe I was the problem...

you should've contacted me, I can make you a "Heloo World" program in 5 days or less

i can program

plus i am good looking which is a plus

when outsourcing has burned you once too many times....

www.pimpincoders.com

I'm not one of the 5 programmers who've flaked, but here's what I have to say about Pain In The Ass Clients

- If your spec doesn't outline exactly what you need and I have to recode everything because your shitty memory made you forget to tell me something, guess what? You're paying for the extra time.

- If you expect me to deliver the product to you "post haste", then answer my fucking emails post haste. When I have a question, or I need something clarified, or I need you to send me content, then answer the e-mail with what I need.

- No, I'm not your tech support. I'm a web developer. Stop asking me how to do something in Excel.

- Yes. I think you're a nice guy. No, that doesn't mean you get a discount

- No, I don't want to "share profits" in lieu of payment. My hourly rate is $50 USD per hour. When you invest $50 worth of ad revenue for every hour I spend developing your website, and when you show me your Business Plan and Marketing Plan, as well as a written Partnership Agreement, then we can talk about sharing profits. Until then shut the fuck up and pay me.

- No, I won't upload the work to your server until you pay me.

- No, I won't store customers' credit card numbers in plain text in a database on your crappy shared hosting account.

- Yes, I'll be glad to teach you to do it yourself. My hourly rate for instruction is the same as my hourly rate for development.

- By all means, go ahead and hire some guy in a mud hut on the other side of the world. When everything is all fucked up, my hourly rate will double to fix what they fucked up.

Only 5?! That's nothing. I've gone through many more than that and have yet to find someone decent.

Go to perlcoders.com for good programmers.Since here there is already good advices,nothing to add.

Heheh I gotta agree on what you said. Only from a vid editing perspective :P

So true. :1orglaugh

1. There's a reason why certain scripts are public and cost less than what certain programmers will charge you for custom...they are full of security holes.
2. Yes, we are huge procrastinators.
I'de definitely look into that as well.

The best thing to do is find a local programmer. Quit outsourcing.

I think ANYBODY who works servicing clientele can relate to this post.

BEST POST IN THE THREAD - HANDS DOWN! :winkwink:

People love to bitch and wine about designers, programmers, outsourcers, etc, ... but often there is two sides to the coin, and having been in the service sector (both online as well as brick & mortar), I can attest that sometimes some clients cannot be pleased even if you jump through fire hoops like a circus dog.

At some point, if a business deal is not going well, for whatever the reasons, both sides have to agree to cut their losses and move on.

This is how mainstream business conducts itself.

Flaming and bitching about the business deals that have have not worked out is not productive, nor is it very professional.

(Escort Biz your post was runner up ...) :winkwink:

Being a programmer myself I can vouch that this is all 100% true :1orglaugh

And there's your problem!!!

None of what you said is "non-complex" when it is done with computer code.
You want way too much for what you are willing to pay for.

I will sell a complex script for $50 but I sell it to 1000 people!
If I had to write the same script for one webmaster I would charge really high like $2500 because it may be so customized that I couldn't sell it to anyone else and it would have none of the "bells and whistles" of the $50 script that I would spend 10 times the effort on because it's more money.

You're asking for skilled labor but trying to pay minimum wage so people flake on you when they realize what it is that you expect for your money. You make it sound easy but when they begin to code the job reality kicks in.

Has anyone used that site where you can watch your programer on webcam and see his screen every min he is supposed to be working on your project?

me: "bid accurately.. i want it done on time..."

programmer: "i can do that job in 6 days for $500"

me: "if you deliver it on time ill give you $500, if you deliver it a day early ill give you $600, every day its late we can knock off $50... agreed?"

me: "hello?? you there?"

me: "knock knock, anyone home??"

Great idea, got a link?

After reading this entire post I was compelled to comment.
Many of you here make some valid points.

I do agree that it is ALL about professionalism.

I think many clients from the get go often times forget that a newly hired coder (much like an artist expected to finish a painting that has been started)....has to get into the trenches and understand the better bulk of what has been done and why it was done the way it has in a system/website.
Too many times I've heard from coders found in this predicament....that things are an utter mess....and quite frankly this occured because previous coders might have been in it for a quick buck.
Want a job well done? ...then i would say the key to this is communications and specifics from both sides....and setting 'real' expectations....

Posts such as these though I understand are created because someone is disgruntled....it's giving reputable programmers a bad wrap..and let's face it....once you get a good programmer on your side he's invaluable.

And you don't see what is stupid about that do you?

Programmers give "estimated" completion times, one simple typo in a piece of executed code can delay a programming job at any time.

The reason Windows is fucked up is because it was "completed" "on time". :1orglaugh


You think you have a point about programmers yet the real point is that you didn't get your job done because of what you asked for. Think about that.

The programmer woud be happy to do your job in one day and fuck off for 4 days so why would they want to deliver the project late?

Bottom line: if you don't like/understand the nature of programming jobs then read a book and do it yourself. You'll have a new outlook on life after you deal with it yourself.

I'll have to admit that a recent custom job I did took longer than expected. In the end I probably undercharged the client for the work I did, but it was balanced out by the fact that he was waiting for so long.

I've accepted that I am not cut out for custom coding, so I've moved on.

No shit. The sooner I deliver, the sooner I can stick my hand out for that check. Time is money, and the more time I spend NOT getting shit done is more money I miss out on.

I know that some are like this, sometimes i've gotten designers to design me stuff and they are exactly what you've described. But I (as a php programmer/freelancer) never missed deadlines without good reason (which is in 99% of the time because the client wants a new feature and they understand this will add a couple of days to it). Never had a client who wasn't happy :). And never disapeared. I always give my personal MSN and email, so I can't really disapear (well, I could block you. But I don't).

When i get designers to do stuff I expect them to work to deadlines like I do, and get annoyed when they "have to go out", or the last excuse was "I got bored so went out" from this guy. He won't be getting any more work from me...:2 cents:

Ps - You forgot about after sales support - most just do a runner basically. Once you've got your product, if you find a bug its your problem, for most programmers (Not for me. Always fix a bug within 48 hours - often a lot less).

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh