current israel/iran affairs (for smokey)
 

Iran has been aggressive with Israel on multiple levels, from hosting conferences that deny the holocaust, to publicly saying that it is not logical for Israel to exist, they are very aggressive in getting this point across publicly, they taunt Israel.

Israel is going to do what you have to do to ensure their safety, everything else is secondary. They did a preemptive strike against Syria and Egypt in ’68 and took out their entire air defensives in a matter of hours, it is not a new process for them.

What would you do if it was your neighbor that was saying you should not exist, how you are you going to make sure your wife and family are going to stay safe?

They will do what they have to do, all options on the table. Politically, using tactical nuclear weapons would be a poor choice, but the leak helped get the news out that Israel has claws. Don’t watch what is said, actions matter. Israel is smart, they will make good decision

Why would you leave any options off of the table?

As long as the USA sits this battle out I could care less.

if Isreal wants to fight the arabs and persians, let them do it themseelves and leave us the fuck out of it .

not our war , been going on way before we were even a country, so why do we always back israel ?

thye want to fight let hem fight .

kinda like your best friend if he is mouthing off and starts a fight at a party with three guys let him get his ass whipped then take him home and help him. why go get in the fight for him and keep letting him do it at EVERY party from that point on ?

or do you think ALL arabs and Persians should be anhiliated so it will just stop that way ?

because if not what will isreal do then ?

keep beating fathers in front of their kids, keep the third world under their thumb? what? they will never let there be peace .

us can still help and sit the battle out

Just a bit of info: Iran's holocaust conference was not the denial of the holocaust but rather about holocaust revisionism. The idea is that the Jews claims of how many of their people were killed (6 million?) and widespread destruction was exaggerated, not that the holocaust itself never occurred.

Breaking News...
 

that conference isn't really a current event..........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial

Holocaust denial (commonly called Holocaust revisionism by its supporters) is the belief that the genocide of Jews and other minority groups during World War II ? the Holocaust ? did not occur, or it did occur, but not to the extent that is currently held to be true by most.

your paraquoting.. try posting what was actually said then it will make sense..

If someone says "zionists should be wiped off the map just like ussr was wiped off the map"

only someone deluded turns that into " they want to kill us "

Was israel involved in ussr not existing ? was anyone killed ? so if someone uses a non-violent example to explain what they want , it amazes me people think its ok to paraquote that into something so wrong and opposite of what was said..

Your only "substance" so far is a group of radicals has an anti-holocaust conference.. if thats the only reason you nuke someone , better hit the u.s.a. england and canada next as they all fit the same criteria..
so you would be for iran doing a pre-emptive strike on israel ? to ensure its safety.. israel HAS an illegal nuclear weapons progrm already.. the only difference between iran and israel is iran doesnt have an illegal nuclear weapons program yet..





if i was israel i would start an illegal nuclear program and let my neighbours know i had nukes.. then i would tell them if they did the same thing i just did i would nuke them. oh snap thats what israel did..





because some options are stupid.. one option could be we slaughter every person who is religious.. why would i take that option off the table ? because murder is wrong..

if people want to believe that the holocaust never happened that is up to them and it is also up to the people who believe it did happen to make that choice. Its called freedom. I believe the holocaust if very over played and happened a long time ago.

IMO the jews asked for it http://christianparty.net/jewsgermany.htm

its a well known fact that arabs generally dont get along with jews, thats the premise here, there is already a lot of tension

your getting into the semantics and details of of what was said, and they are talking politically, is is very clear they are threatening israel, anyone can see it. if they were not, wouldn?t they then say "as for Israeli people, we dont mean any harm towards you, prosper and be merry" with neighborly love?? Do you often hear charged statements like this from governments about other countries? Statements that provoke a response from Israel and are front page cnn/nyt?

Its not the statement, it?s the message


That?s how this world works, if Hitler was able to create the A-bomb first, then we would be speaking German. It is how it is. Whats happened in the past is of little consequence to the position you are in now. Iran is provoking Israel and Israel does not like to get fucked with, they are a drop in a sea of arabs, and they take every little or big prod very seriously.

at one point 60 years ago it was a good option, its not a good idea to put that weapon in your gun safe and throw away the key, you don?t know whats going to happen over the next few years.

Israel is provoking the arab world alot, too, it's not one way. The attacks on lebanon, far more than just self defense, for example. While I understand that israel is reacting very quick and hard, because it's surrounded by potential threats, murder isn't a proper response to murder.

I wont argue that fact , but by the same token jews generally dont get along with arabs.. so thats about a draw.. or do you not agree ? that jews hate muslims about as equal as muslims hate jews ..


yah i think prob before we start launching nukes we pay close detail to what is said
i dont understand how you cme to that conclusion.. i think your relying on other to speak for you.. why not just post one of these threats i hear about but never see ,

i'm not sure i understand what your saying.. I havent heard israel or iran say that no.



What hitler did was wrong.. has nothing to do with today.. the only reason to bring it up it to play the pity card..




yet nobody can tell us what they are doing to provoke israel.. we DO know israel military officials leaked a plan to launch 3 nukes at iran , thats pretty serious . but as far as iran .. havent heard anything reliable we do know israel has an illegal nuclear weapons program.. thats about all we know for sure..


i admit , not a simple decision. . not killing people is..

I have no valid factual reason to believe iran would nuke us. and we know they cant .. I have no evidence to suggest israell nuke us but they DO have nukes.. i would be alot more concerned with israel than iran.. first they defy international law and start a secret wqeapons program , then they defy international law and refuse to cooperate with inspections , now they want to defy international law and fire them at someone..

I am retracting the statement

I did not realise that was from a racist site that seems to twist the facts, I should have checked over the rest of the site first the rest of what I said still stands

lol :thumbsup at least you have the guts to correct your mistakes.. please dont let the internet teach you important historical facts.

I don't think any rational person in this day and age believe the jews didn't get the short end of the stick.. by the same token its rather hard to dispute any "facts" as ANY question of facts as we are told is anti-semitism..

But really is there any need to ? the nazi's were evil .. the jews got screwed.. alot of people got screwed throughout history , jews are one of many in recent history .. alot more people have died from starvation in africa than jews gassed by hitler.. its all evil , we shouldn't kill or permit killling.

These things we all agree on.. ( i hope )

Yes I do agree with you 100% on that one but the point I am trying to make is that we only hear what the media want us to hear. I was trying to say the holocaust IMO is blown out of proportion as all news coverage is always blown way out of proportion, I aint denying that it never happened, Anyway back to the topic in hand.

Iran is a threat to Israel just as any other country is a threat to other country's, I don't really trust what my government has to say about wars any more as they lied to us all (Blair us Bush You lot). So for all we know we could just all be getting fed "Propaganda" As governments have done so for thousands of years and will continue to do so until if ever there is world peace. I ain't one for conspiracy's So don't think I'm pulling these facts out my ass to prove a point.

But one thing I will say is this Israel is gonna use its illegal weapons to stop another country having illegal weapons in the future. These double standards are fucking stupid, Both country's show have action (non-military) taken against them like no one trade with them let UN weapons inspectors in to take away their weapons then there would be no war and no weapons.


IF ONLY.........

Certain Jews like to label anyone who questions anything about the Holocaust as being a criminal who belongs in prison.

I don't see the harm in questioning the circumstances around the deaths of all those people while in Nazi custody.

Iran making bold statements gives israel the right to use nukes on them ?
hmmmmmm

are you blind man :)


Iran's president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, declared Sunday that Israel had "pushed the button of its own destruction" by launching its military campaign against the Iranian-backed Hizbullah in Lebanon.

Ahmadinejad didn't elaborate, but suggested Islamic nations and others could somehow isolate Israel and its main backers led by the United States. On Saturday, the chairman of Iran's armed forced joint chiefs, Maj.-Gen. Sayyed Hassan Firuzabadi, said Iran would never join the current Middle East fighting.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...=1153291976348




"As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map," said Ahmadinejad, referring to Iran's revolutionary leader Ayat Allah Khomeini.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/ar...rchiveId=15816




Our dear Imam (referring to Ayatollah Khomeini) said that the occupying regime must be wiped off the map and this was a very wise statement. We cannot compromise over the issue of Palestine. Is it possible to create a new front in the heart of an old front. This would be a defeat and whoever accepts the legitimacy of this regime has in fact, signed the defeat of the Islamic world. Our dear Imam targeted the heart of the world oppressor in his struggle, meaning the occupying regime. I have no doubt that the new wave that has started in Palestine, and we witness it in the Islamic world too, will eliminate this disgraceful stain from the Islamic world. But we must be aware of tricks.[1]







The speech was interpreted by some as a call for genocide. For example, Canada's then Prime Minister Paul Martin said, "this threat to Israel's existence, this call for genocide coupled with Iran's obvious nuclear ambitions is a matter that the world cannot ignore."[15]

Cole interprets the speech as a call for the end of Jewish rule of Israel, but not necessarily for the removal of Jewish people:

His statements were morally outrageous and historically ignorant, but he did not actually call for mass murder (Ariel Sharon made the "occupation regime" in Gaza "vanish" last summer[sic]) or for the expulsion of the Israeli Jews to Europe.[16]
In the speech, Ahmadinejad gave the examples of Iran under the Shah, the Soviet Union and Saddam Hussein's regime in Iraq as examples of apparently invincible regimes that ceased to exist. Ahmadinejad used these examples to justify his belief that the United States and the State of Israel can also be defeated claiming, "they say it is not possible to have a world without the United States and Zionism. But you know that this is a possible goal and slogan."[1]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud...jad_and_Israel



(CBS/AP) Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said Friday that Israel no longer had any reason to exist and would soon disappear.

"This regime, thanks to God, has lost the reason for its existence," Ahmadinejad told a crowd of thousands gathered at a rally in support of the Palestinians in the capital Tehran.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/...n2110011.shtml

I sell apples on the corner for 3$ a pound.

i posted that because per wikipedia, those terms are are one and the same

tony,

iran hates israel, it is suspected that they are trying to get nukes, israel is afraid iran will use nukes on them, israel will do whatever means necessary to protect themselves (you may recall the cuban missile crisis and the current iraq war having similar premises)

israel has had nukes for 40 years, they could have used them during the 6 day war and the yom kippor war, but they didnt. you think they are suddenly looking for a reason to recklessly use them?

they will mitigate threats toward them, with 2 requirements, 1) ensure the threat disipitates and 2) minimize damage, lives, impact, etc

but you have no idea what the situation will be like in the future

i dont see any threat there.. your posting some people's opinions on what was said.. i didnt see one iranian official make one threat.. dont post 20 people's interpretations of what was said when your just trying to hide what was REALLY said

what was said was ZIONISTS will be wiped off the map LIKE USSR . i.e. iran didnt attack ussr , nobody was killed .. that shouldnt be a hard example for people to understand.. people just like to paraquote one part " wipe out" .. to us we assume that means "kill everyone" but in CONTEXT of what was said it was in comparison to a NON-VIOLENT breakdown of the soviet union..

a threat is simple to substantiate , you post actual words of actual people who made actual threats.. pay close attention to the last quote you posted . ""This regime, thanks to God, has lost the reason for its existence,"

If you take it out of context. it sounds dangerous . in context it sounds no different than bush saying the EXACT same words..

How long should iran sit idly by while its neighbour israel flaunts its illegal nuclear weapons program ?

You dont wonder why theres some resentment that your neighbours a tiny country are building secret nukes ??

Do we really want a country who isnt even supposed to have nukes use them on a country who clearly doesnt ?

Israel hates Iran and plans to use its illegal nuclear weapons on Iran for trying to create its own nuclear weapons, It is not Israel's place to enforce this international law of no nukes as it has broken the law by having them. Israel can't justify having nukes there is no getting round the fact Israel has broken the law

israel hates iran . true or untrue ?


the hate goes both ways agreed ?
israel already has illegal nukes.. who is more dangerous . a dude with an illegal gun or a dude who plans on one day getting an illegal gun

if you didnt have an illegal gun and your neighbour did have an illegal gun , who should be afraid ?

do you protect yourself by shooting your neighbours simply because they "want" the same gun you have ?
i recall it wasnt solved by launching 3 nukes at russia or cuba :)

these reports dont just come out of thin air.. :)


so by the same reasoning we should attack israel and iran should attack israel ? would your neighbour having hundreds of nukes constitute a threat ?

What is more threatning . a guy with 100 nukes or a guy who says : the zionist regime should be wiped out like the soviet union was wiped out "

hmm i know who i wouldnt be inviting over for dinner thats for sure..

what it boils down to is you either believe neither country should have/use nukes , both countries should have/use nukes or you believe one people is better than the other = racist

Smokey, this is what he said:

على جنوب الصومال يوم الاحد مستهدفة قيادات للقاعدة يعتقد انها قال المتحدث باسم وزارة الدفاع الامريكية إن الولايات المتحدة شنت غارة جوية على جنوبايات المتحدة "تستهدف القاعدة" في الصوما"

Its translated into what I posted above. did you miss the parts that started with "Iran's president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, declared". But that?s not even the point.

The point is that governments are very careful and prudent regarding how they portray themselves and their relationships with others, they are careful not to show animosity toward other countries, offend or threaten other countries



Sure, bush is pissed off about them wanting to have nuclear capabilities, they have been calling the US infidels, the devil, for 20+ years


I guess what you mean by flaunts means not even admitting to having nuclear weapons.



All that is old news, besides the point. You have the loaded gun your hand, doesn?t matter whether you bought it or stole it. what matters is how you react when black bart starts reaching for his.

if you can build a nuclear bomb and get away with it, why wouldn't you do it?

how many countries are going to fuck with you when they know you can fly a plane in stealthily and destroy a populated part of their country, thats a big asset for national defense

sure

depends who you are and where you stand. Some countries benefit from being friends with a country with nuclear capabilities.


I should

if my neighbor and I did not get along, i would encourage him to not get the gun, and up the anty as needed. as a question, I guess it depends on how assured you want to be about staying alive

if the soviets did not stop their cargo ships, we would have stopped them for them, then they began removing the missles, if they hadn?t, our marines would have gone in, the point being that we would not have stood having a hostile neighbor holding nuclear missiles


its nice having a friend with 100 nukes, they don?t fuck with you in Compton, cook something good

Those two countires will not go to war with wach other, as they are too far away.

they are too far away

In my opinion, Iran's saber rattling and provocative actions have given Israel the green light to do whatever it feels it needs to do.

lol thats a sound rational idea... a green light to do whatever it feels it needs to do .. hmm are you nuts.. ? what if that means killing everyone who isnt jewish ?

To be honest until i started looking around i was of the theory iran was doing alot of "saber rattling" myself.. then i actually read these so called "threats" and couldnt find one.. i did find alot of "israeli" saber rattling though.. prob the most unsettling is the fact israel defied international law and denied un inspectors to have its own illegal secret nuclear weapons program.. it isnt part of any nuclear treaty's ( every other nuclear power is )

Makes ya think..

They want to own the term Holocaust, that's why they don't want the numbers revised or even looked at. We all know a hell of a lot of Jews died in that period, a hell of a lot of everyone died, but it is the extraordinary claims of numbers and brutality (lampshades made from skin, etc etc) that certain people have burned into the worlds mind. I find it all sick to be honest, but I certainly find it absurdly sick when extremists on the flip-side (aka Zionists) use it to justify just about every other violent and deadly action they take, or to garner support and push others into war without criticism (i.e. the Iraq war) off the back of it.

They can't send ground troops at each other.