Should thumb cropping to imply underage girls be illegal?
 

Let me give a quick example:

We shot this photo of Taylor Little from behind:
http://www.stevelightspeed.com/illusion01.jpg

with Jordan Capri standing in front of her:
http://www.stevelightspeed.com/illusion02.jpg

This *innocent* photo featuring LEGAL-AGED models can be cropped to make it appear to be something completely different:
http://www.stevelightspeed.com/illusion03.jpg

Should people who *intentionally* crop thumbnails of regular pictures to imply underage girls be charged with CP?

Discuss

Edit, I'm going to stay out of this debate.

as soon as they start doing that consitantly and start trading with sites with names as underageincest daddydoespreteendaughter he is clearly targetting a certain public. Should he be charged for cp? No. Should he be surprised wwhen his host kicks him? No

Charged? Hell no. Reprimanded and outcasted for attracting all the wrong kind of attention to our industry and his sponsors? Probably.

I think the problem is with the pervs clicking on them in the first place.I've must have seen thousands of sites that do that ,would be hard to police

Amen , implying underage is only looking to attract one thing.

no...cp is cp..I dont think you can convict someone of "implying" something.

The real question is simply, should webmasters crop images to "imply underage girls" ...NO

Furthermore its my belief that the smart webmaster should distance themselves from anything teen related or risk becoming a target themselves..the current legal climate is rapidly moving towards overly scrutinizing ANYTHING teen related.

The industry needs to clean up it act and start being more responsible..continuing to push the limits of legality and so called "free speech" is the road to ruin and only accelerates and intensifies the scruitny of the entire industry.

Well, I don't know whether or not that is true when related to porn, but it sure is inaccurate as far as other things are concerned, that is for sure.

you'd then have to be able to prove intent. Which would be pretty damn hard imo

Cropping? No.

Fitting the girls with fake braces for a month and shooting the hell out of them -- yes. Dressing/make-up/whatever to make them appear underaged is serious shit IMHO and as a webmaster I'd stay the hell away from it :2 cents:

I don't like lots of porn I see --- especially when it appears to be forced, terrorized girls being raped. But if it involves consenting, legal-aged models, I don't have to LIKE it to defend the right for it to exist as a form of free expression. :thumbsup :thumbsup

When we start fighting with each other over "good" and "bad" porn -- remember, we are ALL pornographers.

I've noticed in this industry especially, when you point a finger, you get five pointing back at you.

I'm not arguing this. If she's 18 - so be it. I'm just pointing out shoots that go way out of the way to suggest it's under 18.

I'm not fighting - and I'm not a pornographer - I'm a developer :pimp

Twist it baby.

I must be dense, but I don't understand how you crop thumbs to imply models are underaged.

Do developers not believe in free speech and the 1st Amendment of the U.S. Constitution? What happens when someone wants to silence YOU?

more often than not it's "the shoe fits" instead "of pointed fingers".

I'm not american - so .......

My only point is... programs that go out of their way (key phrase) to fit their girls with fake braces and then create the backdrop of an underaged girl..... should be avoided. My :2 cents: and nothing more.

you should be able to do anything to the thumb/pic whatever....aslong as the girls are 18+ i dont see any problem...

Do you want to take me on PMDave? Do you believe I've done something that is/was illegal?

P.S. We have alot more in common than you know Steve :)

Steve that is a great point.

And you are entitled to your opinion. :thumbsup

See, did I say something about you being doing something illegal?
NO. Hell no. I wouldn't even believe it.
I can however understand your reaction in ths particular case given the context, but it was not pointed at you.

Check out Perfect Gonzo's http://www.tamedteens.com

I can't believe they maintain billing with this shit. Seems they removed a couple of the more alarming trailers where the chick gets almost beat up.

Ok, sorry for jumping the gun. I've defended the "18 year old" market for a long time, and I get sensitive.

My two favorite points about "age perception" are these: (And believe me, I've argued with some formidable opponents)

1) I'm sorry if you are more comfortable with models that look used up.
2) Show me what an 18 year old girl is SUPPOSED to look like.

It is a gray area for sure. The people in this market need to understand and abide by the limits. But people NOT in this market need to stop being part-time socialologists and criminal detectives --- their OPINIONS don't reflect everyone's. If they don't like teen porn, then by all means they should lobby the government to change the current laws.

head over to any hentai tgp and start clicking, you'll soon find your way to LEGAL images that are far far more disturbing than cropped thumbnails...

i would look at it like this - compare it to FCC Rules about what can be said on the radio. If everyone can agree that you don't want your kids hearing "cunt" on the radio... then at what point do you draw the line when new words that mean "cunt" comes into use, becomes popular, is ultimately considered just as offensive as cunt, which then again is understood by children and something a parent doesn't want their kids to hear? this is basically what the last FCC laws (after the Janet Jackson fiasco) addressed in its very vague language and extreme penalties. when you push and push, you can reasonably expect people to start taking action, changing laws, creating new laws and increasing fines and penalties. a reasonable person should expect that continuing to push that boundary would put them in the direct line of fire.

when you push the boundaries, you can always expect people and the law to push back. in the case of pornography, pushing the boundaries also means putting your freedom, your family and property at risk and going head to head with a federal government that has made it more than clear on many occassions that they don't like you and are coming after you.

at the end of the day, you have to understand and accept the risks and make those decisions FOR YOURSELF and live with the consequences... or avoid them completely. if you start pushing the boundaries and drawing the worst kind of attention possible.. dont ever tell me "hey, i'm a pornographer just like you" as a defense. i didn't agree that you could test the boundaries, attract the worst possible attention in my name and make decisions that could turn my world upside down, although i understand it can happen.

people like to discuss "right" and "wrong"... morals and ethics, create excuses and play semantics... but don't like to discuss personal accountability for the risks they chose to assume.

Agree 100%..some of that shit is disturbing to say the least..I don't see what people see in that

Ok, but should it be ILLEGAL? Where is the child that is being harmed? What about a story? A thought? Where do you draw the line?

Good points. I think the first time we agree on something.

What does that has to with it? It's not because you beat up some random guy you ran into you can say "yeah but look in the paper: 7 people have been killed today" and use it in your defense.

I guess it's a really difficult issue but I can agree with almost anything as long as it's clear that it's fiction.

I don't think he's implying it's illegal. Not everything is about legal vs. illegal.

How about how far some people go to make a buck? Legal? Sure - but it can be pretty disgusting sometimes :)

Titanic, Blue Lagoon, Porky's --- all depicted girls *under 18* naked and engaged in sex acts. CP?

How about the movie "Hostel"? If you put those scenes on a porn site, you'd be LYNCHED.

What gets me, is there are all these people that complain about people making legal girls look younger. Yet no one ever says anything about the extremely hardcore throat gagging sites. Or a bukake sites.. (or how ever the hell you spell it)

I don't support the fact that some of these guys go out of their way to makes girls seem younger. However why is all the extreme hardcore shit just given the free pass?

IMO that's just as bad as those complaining about the implied pedo crap.

Lets be real, Jordan Capri is popular in the first place because she *looked* 16 when she first started.

...and don't me me wrong, i'd bang the hell out of her.

But heres where the line needs to be drawn, you use the term "CP" as in CHILD pornography, making some look like CHILD as opposed to a "jailbait teen" is very very different.

So, if you're cropping photos to make legal 18+ models look 16, I dont see it as a big deal.

Cropping photos to make a legal model look like a 9 year old - that crosses a line.

I've said before, it comes down to the "Look yourself in the mirror" test.

Nobody says shit about PG's abuse sites.

its about the type of attention each one attracts. throat gagging, bukkake etc is "weird" and a fetish and generally accepted as such - seeing what could be your very own 13 yr old child blowing a 50 year old slob, is very personal, emotional and horrifying image for everyone.

You can't use that blanket statement Steve. I'm not your enemy here.

Ok but disgusting??? Where does that start.
What about gayfisting? http://fistingcentral.com/ : Legal in most civilazed countries <> disgusting for +99% of the population. Is that a reason to ban sites like those?

When do we start pushing the boundaries? WHat is acceptable? Or should we just all stop promoting hardcore all together? There will always be people who will be shocked by seing a bare nippel.

They can both eat a dick.

Their statements as of late have caused me to lose all respect. Peaches made one of the most ridiculous statements ever the other night when she said (I'm paraphrasing here) "Wow, now all the CP organizations know where to register their domains" .. in response to you moving to Moniker.

How much more can a moronic can a statement get.

Semantics. It won't drive your point (or lack thereof) across.

Context my friend.

i agree with you. there is no business where you dont have to make ethical and moral choices. none. every single person here who claims to be pure as the driven snow, has skeletons in their closet... just as i do... whether is shady billing, cross sells, spamming, questionable content, making it hard to cancel a membership or whatever.

in the end, i realized i have to make decisions i can live with. i also accepted that the lines i drew for myself were not going to be the lines others draw for themselves as we all have our different personalities, views, perspectives, sense of morality, ethical boundaries and so on.

in the end, i just try to make legal decisions that i feel i can live with. when others here start paying my bills, we can start making group decisions.

[QUOTE=Xplicit;11536229]Lets be real, Jordan Capri is popular in the first place because she *looked* 16 when she first started.
QUOTE]

I can honestly say that Jordan looks the way she looks. I acknowledged her fresh, youthful looks when she started and I deliberately TRIED to make her look *18*. I could have gone with fake braces and "Hello Kitty" panties, but I chose not to.

I shoot 18-22 year old models, because I started there, and after making a name for Lightspeed and carving out my place in the industry, no one is asking me to shoot a lot of MILFS.

I am seriously considering starting a second program now, away from teens all together. I like hot 25 year old woman as much as the next guy, but Lightspeed members just aren't intertested in them.

I apologize, I wasn't referring directly to you, or anyone else, but MYSELF. I am confortable knowing that I produce porn that appeals to many without pushing every legal boundary.

RawAlex is about as far left as you can get without picking up a gun and starting a communist revolution. Mike is the complete opposite and very honest about it. They are by no means friends or allies and have in fact, done nothing but bash each other continually for almost 10 years.

it has everything to do with the topic. the topic in question isn't underage girls in pornography, it is legal content being aimed at an audience seeking illegal content. it is not illegal to promote an of age girl as though she is underage, ethically it is pretty out of bounds, but it is not illegal. the same way it is not illegal to promote animated content as though the subjects are underage. the content is legal regardless of how sick it is. the question being pose din this thread is "should it be?" all i'm getting at is that if you think some cropped thumbnails that make of age girls look a little younger is so bad, you should see some of the shit that comes up when you start clicking through hentai tgps. i've been looking for good high quality hentai programs with imagesets for promo content for a while now, without much luck. so i was clicking my way thru some tgps earlier, and some of skim sites that pop up have FAR more questionable content. I'm not going to go digging for examples to post there because it is not neccessary, but from nearly ANY hentai tgp, if you start clicking you'll run into sites which are clearly promoting animate dimage of girls who don't even appear to hav eages in the double digits yet, partaking in extreme hardcore sex acts...

there are far more serious things to be attacking than cropped images of teens. how young can you really make an 18 year old look? 14-15 at lowest, that animated shit is straight up sick in comparison. if somethingis going to be targetted as being marketted for pedophiles and FOUGHT HARD AGAINST, this sort of thing should be the target of people's attention..