people want to stop DRM
 

DRM technology is a growing problem for all computer users, by extension all of society. DRM is typically used to restrict individuals' use of their own copies of published works. To enforce these restrictions, DRM software, and now hardware, must monitor and control a computer users' behavior. Frequently it reports on what it sees.


http://defectivebydesign.org/what_is_drm

:Oh crap :Oh crap

don't know what to think about it

I'm starting to lean TOWARDS drm... rapidshare type-ish sites are a pain in the rear.

As a content producer I am 100% in favor of DRM.

As a content producer, I believe in the ideas behind DRM, however; As someone who is service oriented towards customers, I feel that DRM has failed dramatically to provide a good two way solution.

We feel adware, spyware, malware, etc is wrong, but feel that DRM is not guilty yet it has many of the same functions. It truly does limit people's freedoms and keeps a watchful eye over people's interaction with DRM protected materials.

If someone could come up with a better way of doing it, I would fully support it for the sake of protecting original works.

The freedoms you refer to are what, the right to make copies of copyrighted material? To post/duplicate copyrighted material for free use by others?

An increasing number of surfers are unwilling to buy any site that uses DRM. What makes matters worse is sites that use DRM and do not disclose it to the viewer prior to purchase.

Individual producers should decide whether to make use of DRM or not, but using DRM and not stating the files are DRM encoded gets as much backlash on forum systems and web communities as any other form of bait and switch. :2 cents:

Oh, so someone that wants to re-use copyrighted material ... which almost always means distribuating to others is offended.

Fuck-em ...

If that were the only group affected Id agree entirely. However, a great many of todays surfers are "collectors." Take a look at the price drop of large consumer media storage devices in the past 6-8 months.

Costco is now selling 500GB external harddrives for around $200.00 and they are flying off the shelves. Who do you think is buying them? Do you have any idea how many spreadsheets you'd have to make to fill 500GB? heh

Surfers are storing well made content on firewire drives the same way their parents once stored prime copies of playboy in a footlocker or closet. DRM is the equivalent of Playboy coming to your house in 1979 and asking for your copy of their most recent magazine back at the end of each month.

The freedom to privacy being the biggest, I'm sure you're aware on just how much information they can collect about people's usage outside the scope of the DRM protected material.

They can also install Zango right? I am totally against anything being installed or information gathered, this is a violation of privacy. I am also against theft of content. Can't you have one without the other?

i agree that surfers should be able to download files from the sites to have on their hard drives but do not agree with them sharing files on bit torrent or whatever else. thinking from a surfers point of view, i wouldn't want to have to visit the site each time i wanted to watch a video from it.

Not under the current design of DRM, no. People once they learn of DRM and the violations of your privacy that it represents, are going to be very against producers who use it unless they're willing to make that sacrifice under duress because they really want what you offer.

You don't have to visit the site, but you do have to "log in" to the video each time you play it.

If they took the magazines out of their footlocker, duplicated them, reprinted the magazine and sent the magazines out to millions of people they didn't know for free, then I would agree. :1orglaugh

Playboy would probably show up at your house if you did.

Actually.... they did.

The Playboy centerfold of Marilyn Monroe was torn out of thousands of copies of the magazine and hung in public view. Even today, go to any construction supply house and you'll see cut outs from mens magazines glued to walls and locker doors.

Im not saying that is acceptable... im saying as a cure DRM is worse than the disease.

One page pinned up in a public place, is not the entire magazine "duplicated" and spread in every country in the world. You sound like a person that doesn't create content maybe?

:thumbsup

ah, i see. so once they cancel they subscription they can't view it any more?

What's wrong with that? It's a subscription to view not own.

Not necessarily. Depends on the license. I may go see apocalypto today. Once I leave the theater, I can I get a copy to take with me for the price of admission to play later? That is the model of drm.

well when someone is paying 35 bucks a month, say they stay for 6 months thats 210 bucks for something they don't get to keep, they could of bought 6 to 10 2-3 hour long dvds for the same price and they get to keep them.

sure but no one goes to theatre to watch porn.

But perhaps they chose not to. Having a choice is nice. Maybe, they understood, that pay per view, is pay per view.

No, but they can get the same experience with DRM. The market will decide if DRM is good. If you own content, and get the opportunity for it to be shared all over the net for free, you might look at DRM a whole new way. :thumbsup

if it works, great. i dont subscribe to porn sites though if i did and i couldn't download, i wouldn't be there long but if it can make people buy more and retain longer im all for it. though i really don't think you can put mainstream movies that cost millions to produce in the same catagory as porn.

We give them free-porn all day long, then we complain when they want free porn... hmmm

This topic reminds me of an interesting experience I had.

I had just started promoting the SammySmack sites (My Wife Jen, etc...), and I wanted to do a review. So I got a username and password.

All of the movie content in the site is protected with Windows Media DRM version 10. The folks who create the content clearly use Windows machines to do so.

Now I use a Mac. I don't use a Windows machine.

Here's the result: I couldn't play any of the videos! NONE! There is no media player for Mac that plays Windows DRM 10. The Windows Media Player for Mac only plays Windows DRM version 1.

That was bad. But it got worse- I looked over the site and there was no indication that Mac users would face this problem. The site creators were oblivious. They even had a FAQ that said that if anybody had problems playing the videos, all they had to do was download Windows Media Player 10.

There is no Windows Media Player 10 for Mac. Microsoft stopped developing Windows Media Player for Mac a couple years ago.

Also, that same FAQ for the SammySmack sites says that the videos will play on Mac with no problem! And there are no refunds after you join.

So in this case DRM has turned into a way to SCREW THE MEMBERS who use a Mac! And that's because the program operators don't have a fucking clue about what they're doing with the DRM.

After that fun, I took down all my links to SammySmack. Fuck that. I'm not going to screw my surfers.

I own a Mac, and it's just one of the thing you deal with. Fortunately for website owners very few "surfers" use Macs so it's not a real issue for them, or not a big enough problem to care about, which is fine, I can see the point in that.

As far as no refunds, you can get a refund if you want, there's always a way, chargeback being the last option.

I agree with you. But the distinction needs to be made between not caring about Mac surfers and not knowing the implications of your use of DRM.

The folks at SammySmack didn't seem to know that their DRM was not playable on Mac. I don't see how that can be excused. If you're going to use DRM, you need to educate yourself a little.

If you want to use Window Media DRM greater than the (very basic) version 1, you need to make clear that Mac users will not be able to view your videos. Making that very clear in a prominent position on your site is the fair and open thing to do.

I can't blame you for feeling the way you do. You don't create content or join porn sites. People have a choice to buy drm or non drm material. The market will decide. I am not comparing the movies, I am comparing the theater and the pay for limited use model. The million dollar movies will come out on DVD, which surfers can Rip and share all they want.

lol ....
DRM is cracked ... search a bit, and you will see.

...and? You think drm doesn't control sharing? You think the casual p2p/rapidshare leecher is going to find out how to crack drm? I don't think so. Obviously some content will be cracked, but not all.

I currently don't use drm, but I'm considering it.

like i said, if it makes me an affiliate more money, im all for it.

Yep, if it makes more money, that means it is valuable. If it makes less money, it will be gone, gone, gone. :thumbsup

No, but some guys have a < mission > .... They crack the drm and then post the movie ( playable ) in p2p, rapidshare AND newsgroups ....
The average Joe, the one that buys our subscription , wont be the one cracking it.

Anyway, go for it :thumbsup

Super restrictive DRM (especially one with "your membership expired so did your saved videos") is something that can only lead to customer frustration. While I understand the desire of copyright holders to jealously protect their work of unauthorized use, I can also understand the member's point of view.

Programs also don't have much of a leg to stand on when many of them are the ones flooding the P2P market and the newsgroups with looking for traffic and exposure. You feed the trolls, why do you think they are coming back to bite you on the ass?

Quite simply, you can't have it both ways... you can't teach the public about free content and download with membership, and then pull the rug out from under the feet 2 minutes later.

Which is the point I always make about DRM...

Perhaps we were wrong to make unprotected movies available, but we did it (are still doing it) for 10 years. Then along comes DRM and instead of everyone in this business seeing it as a useful way to protect their content against unauthorized use, the neanderthals start beating up their own customers with it, thinking this will somehow persuade them to spend more money.

All it has acheived is to turn a potentially useful tool into the enemy and burn out some more of our market.

Surfers are stupid (duh lol) - I have, in CAPITAL letters before they can even sign up for my streaming site, a huge warning about the fact that Mac users can't stream - but every week I get a complaint from a Mac user who didn't bother to read the warning. So there's no sense even worrying about it - no matter what you do - they're still going blame the site :mad:

Everything that can stop thiefs is good. DRM is harmless, its not like you have a gun in your house to stop the thiefs :2 cents:

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

:winkwink:

This is Mike, Jen's husband. First I would like to apologize for the problems you had. I have sent you an email to try and further clarify the problems you experienced. But I wanted to make clear that we do not user DRM in our content at all. I believe the problem is related to MS's lack of support for Mac users regarding WMV and will try and research a way to get around this. I have only received one complaint from a Mac user since we started the site over year ago, and I re-encoded all the videos to try and correct the issue. The refund policy is something I will approach SammySmack about. Prior to joining their program, we always issued a refund if a member was unable to access the content for any reason.

Once again, I am sorry for the problems you experienced and will be working to try and correct them.

Mike

get rid of the mac, its a disease.

lol.

j/k