Sex with under-16s 'grey area'
 

Sex with under-16s 'grey area'

A chief constable has said that young men who have sex with girls aged 13 or over should not necessarily be classed as paedophiles.

Dyfed-Powys chief Terry Grange said he believed the word "paedophile" should only apply to older men who have sex with prepubescents.

He said it would not be possible to prosecute all boys who have sex with girls who are under 16 but over 12.

The charity Kidscape said the police chief was "on very dicey ground".

In England, Wales and Scotland, anyone who has sex with a boy or girl under the age of 16 has committed an offence. The age in Northern Ireland is 17.

If the child is 13 or older and consenting, the offence is classed as "unlawful sexual intercourse".

But if they are under 13 the offence is rape.

Issue

Mr Grange, chief constable of Dyfed-Powys police and spokesman for the Association of Chief Police Officers on child protection and managing sex offenders, said his views reflected this "grey area".

He told the BBC the "grey area" related to situations where "the girl is 13, 14, 15 and the boy is 16, 17, 18, 19, possibly 20".

He said: "If you prosecute each and every time a boy has sex with a girl under 16 and above 12, then we'd be in the schools across Britain, and in the youth clubs across Britain pretty regularly because, since I've been alive, it's been pretty normal.

"It's what teenagers do."

He said the age of consent was "artificial" and varied from culture to culture.

"The 16 age thing is an artificial barrier that we have in Britain. They have different artificial barriers in other countries," he said.

But he said sex between a man over 20 and a girl under 13 was clearly rape and UK law reflected this.

"If the fella concerned - usually a man - is in his 20s, 30s, 40s and 50s, then I believe you should prosecute them ruthlessly, and the law allows for that," he said.

Circumstances

In a separate, earlier interview with the Sunday Times, Mr Grange was asked how he would define paedophilia.

His exemptions from the definition ranged from teenage boys to men in their 30s, which differed from his later interview with the BBC in which he said the upper limit was 20.

He said: "We are talking about very young people [when] it is paedophilia, and I wouldn't want to mix up kids who are just the wrong side of 16 with paedophiles.

"I don't actually personally adhere to the 15-year-old being with a 20-year-old boyfriend being paedophilia, or even if the boyfriend is 30."

Official government guidance on prosecuting suggests that teenagers who have sex when one of them is below 16 should not necessary be prosecuted.

Mr Grange, who stressed his views were personal, said: "You take a look at the circumstances and try to make the right decision for that case.

"It may be nothing, it may be formal warnings, it may be prosecution."

Puberty

Michelle Elliott, the director of charity Kidscape, which campaigns to keep children safe from harm or abuse, told BBC Five Live that using puberty as a guide to sexual maturity was difficult.

"Girls, nine, 10 and 11 are now post-pubescent. They're wearing bras, they're having their periods. They are no longer children in his definition.

"So I think he's on very dicey ground here. I think he was probably trying to bring up the teenage issue, and maybe got himself in deeper than he meant."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6162724.stm

Yeah very interesting read Sarah. Society has changed muched, in the renaissance period kings and queens got married and consumated at ages 12+

quite a scary thought really

Thanks Sarah. What's your opinion of it first tho?

i think its pretty typical in highschool, or at any point in life for that matter, that girls tend to date guys a little older than themselves. its just plain stupid to charge a 17 year old for fucking his 15 year old girlfriend, but as they said in the article, you need to look at each case and decide accordingly...

Wow, a 15y/o going out with a 19y/o is considered normal? I think they can file this one in the "No shit, Sherlock" category :)

15y/o and a 19y/o dating/having sex isn't "normal" but it's not that unusual

I guess he is technically right. This country is insanely paranoid about pedophiles to the point of hysteria so he was brave to bring up the subject. He is, of course, a 16 year old that has sex with a 15 year old is not a pedophile and the term does refer to prepubescent kids but people generally don't care what it actually means and are just worried that relaxing any portion of the law will open to the door to give actual pedophiles loopholes.

The news all day has been ending the story about this with saying he also thought child pornography laws needed to be revised but I haven't been able to find those details anywhere.

i say it's all made up bullshit - in the past girls were married at 13, 14 or whatever and we all descend from them

pedophile is an adult person that feels sexually arroused by prepubescents - not more, not less.

i feel completely ok with the fact that i like seeing a 16 year old girl with nice tits and ass. i just can't live with them cause i can stand their childish attitude.

and i'm pretty sure that politicians tend to forbid things that they can't have for themselves so that no one else can have fun either

So it's not just here in the US where there seems to be an ever increasing Christian and extreme conservative agenda. We end up having to pay the piper.

Do you know if the same atmosphere is growing in other countries? Do you think it's a result of the internet?

I don't know other countries I just know that is country feels worse than the States in the vigilante nature of the the paranoia about pedophiles. There is the famous case of a pediatrician that had his house torched a few years ago because some idiot didn't know that meant he was a baby doctor and not into having sex with kids.

Slavery used to be legal in the US too. Just because it happened "way back when" doesn't mean it should happen now.

Sex between two 15 year olds is one thing. Sex between a 15 year old and a 40 year old is something else entirely, IMO.

People in the UK should not be allowed to breed at all.

touchy subject

Wow.. that's :Oh crap

Agreed. Though 16 is the age of consent in the UK so a 40 year old could legally have sex with a 16 year old which feels odd. I think he is talking more about a 17 year old, for example, that is dating a 15 year old (not uncommon at all) and then 17 year old then faces being branded a sex offender - and the type most reviled by society - for having consensual sex with his girlfriend.

I am not saying he is right or wrong but I do think he is brave to have the conversation.

no matter what the age your always going to have people more or less mature at that age, since its rather hard to "test" mental maturity , perhaps the answer is physical maturity ( i.e. you can have sex when your physically mature / past puberty )

Rufus: hey clem , look at that there house, it has a sign on his lawn . What cha think that says.

Clem: I think it says something about pediafiles , thats one of them baby diddlers.

Rufus: well shake my fiddle stick , it does , that sick son of a gun.. lets torch him.

The guy is right. Also the maturity level of the boy should come into play. I know lots of 19 and 20 year olds that still act and look 15 years old. So its unlikely with the trend of girls dating older guys that the a 19 year old is going to find someone his age. When I was in high school it was pretty normal for 15 and 16 year olds to date college guys upto 21 or so. It pissed off all the high school guys. Im sure we all remember that. The high school guys had to go for girls a few grades lower most of the time. Not to mention girls mature faster than boys do. How many people know a 14 or 15 year old girl that looks like a high school senior, or college freshmen?

girls are having their periods at younger and younger ages..that could set a nine year old at legal age on ocassion

When i was sophmore in high school my girl at the time was a senior the only reason we didnt last cause she went to college an well ur still growing personality wise and everything else....now i knew a girl in High School who was 15 an her boyfriend was 21 nowwww dat was a lil off in my own opinon what does a 21 year old have in common wid a 15 year old not to mention your in college an old enough to go to bars an clubs an she is still in her hello kitty underwear:2 cents:

when i was 16 i ran through 14 year old girls.

i was cool because i had a car.

=]

What they should do is have an "age difference law" for teens. If you're 15 having sex with your 17 yo boyfriend, there's only 2 years difference. If he's 25, 10 years difference, I'd have a problem with that.

Or just tell the fathers. Back in my dad, if an 25 yo was having sex with a 15 yo, the Dad took care of it - pronto ;)

here here :thumbsup I already have the double pump shotgun in the closet by the door for this situation. :winkwink:

That's fucked up

exactly.

what about 15yr old with 16yr old that aint bad

there are reasons my dad never knew anything about any boyfriends until I decided to get married

the guy has a valid point and huge balls for even bringing the issue to light.

im completely against pedos, but i do think there are many situations where people toss that word around carelessly, and thats a horrible thing.