EU wants to fingerprint all 6 year olds! People of Europe WAKE UP!
 

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/worl.../31/2003321224

Yes, they want to use them for the new EU passports, but these are 6 year olds! Fuck, this is getting more and more like 1984 :warning

We (as in human beings) are now the terrorists. We need to wake up, and kick our politicians the ass :mad:

so what
the us is also taking fingerprints of everyone entering the us

this is good thing for cases of missing kids.

It's only getting worse... this is just the beginning.

Good thing the UK is only a member of the EU when it suits us.

Seriously, how will this help with missing kids? :helpme

Well we have socialism in Europe so what do you expect.

lmao... yeah, all those missing kids will be arrested one day when they are 16 or 17 selling drugs on the street, and when they get fingerprinted at the station a match will come up. So maybe ten or eleven years after they are kidnapped they will be found finally :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

Yes, but that is when you choose of your own freewill to travle to the US, and then you choose to follow US laws.

Why should 6 year olds be fingerprinted inside the EU?

Have there been any 6 year old terrorists in the EU?

Innumerable kids are kidnapped, those that get them pass from certain security points with no problem right now; you can see cases of missing kids ending up in other countries.

Can you tell me what are the negatives of having the fingerprint of a child in a DB shared by govts?

I'm all for privacy, but you need to apply reasoning and examine each case as unique.

Where is the reasoning in fingeprinting 6 year olds? The EU is not Palestine.

Let me ask in another way... if the EU demanded that every 6 year old who was to enter the EU needed a passport with fingerprints. Would the US goverment, then say "Yes, we need to fingerprint every 6 year old in the US, no matter if they are going to the EU or not".

Fingerprinting every 6 year old on this planet will not stop terror.

you are using the word terrorism,the article made no reference to it. I gave you a logic explanation, where's yours?

Yes, they want to use them for the new EU passports, but these are 6 year olds! Fuck, this is getting more and more like 1984 :warning

We (as in human beings) are now the terrorists. We need to wake up, and kick our politicians the ass :mad:[/QUOTE]


........and mark my words it'll not end with just fingerprints. I'll give it 5 years before the control freaks in power insist on compulsory DNA sampleing at birth.

It's sad isn't it the way the worlds going. I recon any Europeans over 40 will probably be the last generation to have any idea what true freedom is.

The new biometric passports only got pushed, because the US demanded that travlers to the US needed to be identified with these new passports. The US reason for the biometric passports is terrorism - hench this is also the reason for the EU.

Will the US also be fingerprinting their 6 year olds?

I don't see any reason for Fingerprinting every 6 year old...

If you got nothing to hide you got nothing yo fear.

point me the side-effect of 6y.old havign their fingerprint in a db

the problem with this is that the government has a tendency to misuse every bit of information it has..but then again I guess some peeps still trust the government! :1orglaugh

Yes if it's in TaipeiTimes it most be true
always read them :1orglaugh

These things always start with some noble purpose such as 'but doing this will save the kids' - the 2257 regs being a case in point. Ok there are not 'innumerable kids' being kidnapped and when they are they are not as a rule taken across borders by commerical means but usually smuggled. I would suggest that children are more likely to be killed, injured in traffic accidents (so we ban cars now?) then they are likely to be kidnapped so please stop buying the crap 'that this is good for us/society/kids' and stop repeating it like you know what the fuck you are talking about.

Govt likes to control. Its the nature of the beast. That is why it does what it does. In the UK for example we have resisted ID cards for generations. It smacks of Nazi dictatorships and so on. We are told that everyone else has them and it will fight terrorism (this despite the fact that even our Home Secretary admitted they would not have stopped one single incident in the past). I don't care everyone else has them. Everyone else having them is not a sign that it is a good idea. Nazi Germany had gas chambers and these were not a good idea (unless you are Mel Gibson).

Fuck the control freaks and try fighting for liberty and freedom.

With the history of Europe, then you should fear goverment... whatever little freedom we had left after the coldwar is being taken away from us. Just in the last 6 months Denmark passed these laws:

- illegal to buy anything above dkk. 100.000 cash (first time in danish history that anonymous cash spending is made illegal)
- anti-terror law, which goes far beyond what the EU wanted.

and now every 6 year old is going to get fingerprinted.

Yes, I follow danish law :winkwink:

Sorry for butting in here but there are huge ramifications to what I'm sure this will lead to.

Compulsory fingerprinting or compulsory DNA sampleing challenges the very fundamental legal principal of an individual being innocent of any crime untill he/she can be proven guilty by burdon of evidence.

Once people are on fingerprint/DNA databases the onus moves on them to prove their innocence, as in theory they are all possible suspects in any crime that has been commited.

A kid can be kidnapped even from a parent that has lost custody of it and this is a very common case. As far innumerable kids missing, check some statistics and you'll see it's a large and growing number.

Af far control yes, govts not just tend to control,but do control most aspects of our lives. A biometric data that is going to be collected anyhow a decade later is meaningless to me compared to a series of other incidents.

Will you trust a danish news source? http://politiken.dk/VisArtikel.iasp?PageID=469260

very rough english translation :winkwink:

A DB record doesnt change your legal status towards a possible crime you are or you are not involved. When you reffering to legal issues, you need to use the legal point of view.

I'm not taking as given that this cannot have negative consequences, but still asking you to provide them.

I really don't see any problem with it... Only benifits (kidnapped kids etc). They can take my fingerprints any time. Nothing to hide, nothing to fear.
And seriously... how effectiveis Europe? They will probly will take all these fingerprints and never do shit with them.

And how is it bad? I don't get your point.

Actually passports for kids starting at 6 is a great idea.

Should we also just give the DNA sample and implant the microchip?

Both things will help in protecting the children.... and we have nothing to fear - we should just trust our goverment... right? :helpme

Sit back my friend and read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Europe

Sure...
A chip and everyone freaks out but give people a card where they get points at the supermarket, the bank, the gasstation, the pizzahut, when flying etc and they all stand in line to get a card like that.

Really: if you have nothing to hide there is nothing to fear.

"A DB record doesnt change your legal status towards a possible crime you are or you are not involved. When you reffering to legal issues, you need to use the legal point of view".

Sorry but yes it does.

Lets just say that some of your DNA or your fingerprints are found at a murder scene. The cops scan through their db looking for matches and find yours. You would then become a suspect by default and the burden would be placed on you to explain why your DNA was found there even if there was no other evidence linking you to that crime.


"I'm not taking as given that this cannot have negative consequences, but still asking you to provide them".

- see above for one of numerous possible scenarios of the negative consequences

"Really: if you have nothing to hide there is nothing to fear."


Sorry to say but history shows that that has got to be one the biggest all time classic bullshit statements ever devised.

These are evidences in a scene crime and I cannot see them as negative consequence unless I decide to deny the involvement of authorities and law enforcement in crimes. If you have an ID you'll be in this position anyhow, what may change is the age limit. In my country we usually get IDs at the age of 16, do you want any person younger than 16 not to be suspect for crimes?

Tell the Jews that in World War II when they were forcibly given tattoos by the Nazis, how they were all forced to wear a symbol. Hey after all it helped identify them easier -- just to be led to death that much faster.

It amazes me how the terrorists are succeeding in removing our freedom... european politicians have to be dumber than the US politicians :Oh crap


(after a search on google, then I could not find anything about the US wanting to fingerprint every 6 year old in the US)

lol in USA you learn about these things when they are already in place ;-)

I think this is blown out of all proportion. The EU want all passports to have fingerprints. They also want kids to have their own passports and not travel on parents passports. The fact that 6 year olds will be fingerprinted is a bye product. You cant say that kids shouldnt be given biometric passports but adults should. You either have biometric or you dont. It has to be the same rules for everyone regardless of age.

Personally i think biometric passports are a waste of time, fraudsters and terrorists will just fake the biometric passeports. Having those details maybe usefull i guess.

To be fair as long as i can enter other countries without problem i genuine couldnt give a rats ass what type of passport i have. Why should i care if they have my fingerprints as i dont break the law knowingly so have nought to fear.

You really think any politician is dumber than bush??

Here comes the Verichip
http://www.verichipcorp.com/

By 2020 we will all be just a number in computer,lol

Oooook...

Yappo.

Sick - the future totalitarian society is already possible. Now they just need us to willing accept it. Guess we are in for alot of future kidnappings (honey, we better chip all the kids and us due to the sickos out there) :(

Freedom is under attack.

I would not be surprised :2 cents:

When I was in kindergarten they came in and fingerprinted us all with the lost child reasoning.

You still didn't explain how is it bad and how does it affect freedom, you are only crying. Please tell me already.

There are a ton of kids moved around between countries on passports that don't belong to them. In the UK you hear frequently about kids moved between here and parts of Africa on passports that are another child's passport. A fingerprint will make that harder.

Then you have the poor kid whose body was found floating in the Thames and turned out to be a kid that was brought in from Africa and then was slain because they thought he was a devil. He had lived in Germany for a while - as it turns out - but they had to do a huge search to try to find out who he was. If living in Germany had meant he needed a passport with his finger prints on it in order to move around it would have been a lot easier to identify him.

Of course there are abuses that could take place and there are ways around the fingerprints inorder to move kids around illegally but atleast it makes it a bit harder.

hmm - i see ethics here. but i see this solving many problems in the future in solving crimes

but real crimes, they will just burn their fingerprints of.

The point of fingerprints in passports is to make the passporte more secure, a fingerprint is way better than a signiture. Its not to track you or shit like that, it is to identify you along with your passport.

The reason 6 year olds would get fingerprinted too is if you want your KID to travel beyond europe they need a passport, starting with the age of 6 they need their own, and all passports have fingerprints thus those do also.

Not such a big deal really.

Ah the trust in the authorities as evidenced by this comment and others.

So I will pick one case as it is big in the UK at the moment

"Scotland appointed three experts to examine the way fingerprints are collected and used in court after a case of mistaken identity involving a local policewoman raised questions worldwide over the practice.

Shirley McKie was awarded 750,000 pounds ($1.3 million) in compensation last February, seven years after being acquitted of perjury when fingerprint evidence allegedly connecting her to a murder scene was discredited in court."

Fingerprint analysis is not an exact science but a matter of interpretation. Experts can disagree on whether prints are a match or not and standards for matching prints varies from country to country.

The case above involved an innocent woman with her prints in a database being wrongly accused. The experts involved still refuse to accept that they were wrong and it also begs the question how many other people are, and have been, wrongly accused but their case ignored.

The collation of information by Govt's is an age old desire as evidenced by the doomsday book in 1085 in England. Its purpose was to calculate how much tax people should pay and to make sure everyone paid. People feared such intrusion then and we too should be equally suspicious whenever ideas proposing collation of info on the population is proposed.