A message for all of the Israel haters and Hezbollah sympathizers
 

GO FUCK YOURSELF :321GFY

Israel has every right to defend itself from terrorists so quit all your fucking boo-hooing over the collateral damage.
Do you think Hezbollah gives a flying fuck if their rockets kill Israeli civilians?

Let the Jews kick the shit out of these dumb ass towel heads once and for all and get it over with.

Jesus Christ, take this shit somewhere else.

I said this on another board. The way the media ties into and impacts war these days is really interesting. Makes you wonder how WWII would have played out if the Allied citizens knew how many "innocent Axis citizens" were dying because of our bombs.

Yep this shit has been happening for 100 years.

Vietnam really changed the way people look at war, because it was the first war to ever be televised, and most people really had no idea what war actually looked like.

Assholes like Hezbollah capitalize on this by intentionally hiding their weapons and command posts in schools and hospitals and the like, and then whining about the innocent people who were killed when the bombs fell.

If they were so worried about the innocent people they wouldn't have hidden their weapons amongst them.

You mean Lebanon has the right to defend themselves..

Israel is the one that started the violence & started the attack..

In the words of Dick Cheney, another terror attack in the US is not a matter of if, but when.

Any supporter of Israel destroying Lebanon is helping to create the motive for the next attack against us. We funded Israel's ability to do this to Lebanon, and I have a feeling we will one day pay the consequences of that.

Missinformed^ start watching the news or reading it and you might learn something.

Well this time around it was Lebanese Hezbollah who kidnapped two Israeli soldiers, and Israel's military offensive is a response to that.
The Lebanese government is a powerless joke and they can't police their own people, so the Jews are going to kick some ass in their stead.

Hmmmm alright.

I'm going to come and live in the house next door to you, and I am going to let you know that it is my stated aim to kill you and your entire family. I will assemble an arsenal of weapons and every so often I will jump into your garden and kidnap a family member.

If you try and stop me, you are the bad guy and if I hide behind your neighbour's children when you come and get me, it's your fault if they are harmed, mmkay?

You are giving two rather odd arguments here.

The second goes like this: "If an evil, fundamentalist, terrorist organization kills innocent civilians, it is ok for Israel to copy the behaviour that makes the organization in question evil, fundamentalist terrorists."

I don't think I even have to point out why that line of argument doesn't exactly work.

The first is simpler, and more interesting: "Israel has the right to defend itself."

Indeed, it does. However, only with proportionate actions. Furthermore, right now, Israel is not just defending itself. It clearly is not interested in a cease-fire at this point, and in fact wants to win this conflict completely. While that may be a rational position, it does mean that Israel is in fact not merely defending itself, but is on the offensive, choosing an aggressive role in this conflict. That changes things, a lot, because it gives Israel the full responsibility for any consequences their strategy has.

Bullshit.

The towel heads have been pissed at us ever since we put troops in Saudi Arabia before the first gulf war. (Even though we were asked to do so by the Saudi government)
Now they're pissed at us about that and about Iraq and Afghanistan.

They'll continue to be pissed at us no matter what, so fuck them.

Another thing I find interesting.

Hezbollah is hiding their "army", weapons, bunkers, and everything else they have right within the people. Amongst businesses, schools, hospitals, apartment buildings, houses, etc. By launching rockets out of these areas, of course thats where Israel will strike. They're striking the army and the weapons.

Israel has a very clear army, weapons, and bases. None of which are in the civilian population. Not by businesses, schools, hospitals, apartment buildings, houses, etc. And yet, Hezbollah doesn't focus their barrage of close to 100 daily missiles on the army, weapons, and bases. No, they focus their 100 daily missiles on regular civilian buildings.

One is clearly attacking civilians. While the other is attacking "military" installations, which happen to be buried in civilians.

A Muslim has already killed and injured several Jews in a shooting spree in Seattle.

But according to idiots like you, that kind of behaviour is justified because the victim is always to blame.

You should read more than one news headline if you really want to debate.

Ok, so say the KKK & some nazi skinheads go to canada & kidnap a couple mounties, will you then justify canda if they started blowing the shit up of the united states?? Hezbollah may be terrorist or extremist group, however, they do not represent or speak for the people of Lebanon..

Fucking WTC 9/11.. remember that.. USA went after the terrorists, you didn't see or hear of USA indescriminately killing innocent afghani,, I'm sure Israel is more than capable of eliminating the hezbolla or terrorist threat inside lebanon, but no, they chose to become butchers instead of utilizing their skills

I don't think I've ever seen this Lenny2 character say something so ignorant. For some reason I had it in my head that you were a smart man. Now it's obvious that you let your thinking be clouded by your emotions, at least in this case. The first sign of an ideologue.

Yes, these people are inherently evil, and we're good. We kill for freedom and democracy, they kill because they're evil and they like killing people. They have no right to resist increasing Israeli occupation, no right to resist American financial control, and no right to retaliate when Israel takes hostages. There will be peace in the middle east as soon as we kill the entire indigenous population. Great plan. Get the gas chambers ready, and start digging the mass graves.

Take Osama's dick out of your mouth for a minute and pay attention.

The way you defend yourself against an aggressor who won't stop fighting is to take away his ability to fight.
Kidnapping two Hezbollah members is a "proportional response" to two Israeli soldiers being kidnapped, but what good would that do?
NONE.

Take out Hezbollah and all of their weapons and then there won't be any more of this tit for tat proportional response shit.
If the Lebanese could police thier own population none of this would be necessary, but since they're a bunch of pansy ass sympathizers Israel has to do it for them and they have every right to protect their own citizens.

They're not marching into the capital and flying the Israeli flag, they're taking out the terrorists and then going home.

Horrible comparison. If any American based gang did anything to Canada, the United States government would be all over it. Canada wouldn't need to respond. However, if the United States government did very little or even nothing about it, Canada has every right to be very upset, impose sanctions, and take the appropriate measures to protect their sovereignty.

Would you support leveling Iraq because there are terrorists there? That is exactly what Israel is doing to Lebanon.

We have killed a lot of civilians in Iraq, but not with the level of disreguard for human life that Israel is currently displaying.

and when was the last time you witnessed a real war yourself?

Honestly like they really are looking for another motive.

No because if American citizens did attack another country our government would arrest those responsible and take appropriate action.

The Lebanese government has not and will not arrest Hezbollah leaders.

This would be the equivalent of the KKK controlling the entire state of Texas and the U.S. government being too weak and too afraid to do anything about it.
Then when the KKK attacks Mexico, Mexico sends in it's army to disarm the KKK because our government is unable to.

That would be an apples to apples comparison.

So what do you think would be a fair retaliation from Canada? Forget sanctions. We are talking military here. What if Canada totally bombed out Chicago and New York over two kidnappings?

It is not just capitalizing on the media, it has been the only viable strategy available to smaller groups fighting larger groups throughout history. For example, in WWII, the resistance against the nazi's in German-occupied areas used exactly the same tactic. The Germans, in turn, killed many civilians because of that, claiming that the "cowardly tactics" of the resistance were to blame.

This is not about Hezbollah being worried or concerned about the welfare of civilians - we know that they aren't. However, that does not take away all responsibility from those killing civilians because they are being used as human shields. Sure, Hezbollah is to blame for using human shields, but Israel is to blame for blasting right through those shields.

If a madman comes your way, holding up both a gun and a baby (perhaps his own?), and you choose to shoot him, thereby also killing the baby, part of the responsibility is yours - especially if, like Israel, you decide to go on the offensive and to take him out no matter what, entirely ignoring the existence of the baby. Sometimes, there may be no other choice, but in this case, there is - a cease-fire.

Um, comparing Canada and the United States to Lebanon and Israel is a horrible comparison. It isn't even worth talking about. Lebanon and Israel have been fighting for years, they have a HUGE history.

Read up. This war isn't over a couple Israeli soldiers that were kidnapped.

Put the Quran down and listen numbnuts.

I never once mentioned anything about good or evil or ideology.
I simply said that Israel has a right to defend itself....the terrorists hide their weapons amongst the civilian population so when Israel takes out those weapons strongholds obviously civilians are going to die.

Is it Israel's fault or the terrorists fault?

Israel warned everyone in the area to leave, that they would be bombing. If you didn't leave then you're S.O.L.

What happened in Afghanistan?

No you're right, I should just let the madman kill me so the baby "might" live. (How safe is a baby in the arms of a madman with a gun?)

A cease-fire won't do any good at this point, not yet. All that would do is give Hezbollah time to be resupplied by Iran and Syria.

Once the Lebanese gov't agrees to police it's own citizens, namely Hezbollah, and a U.N. peacekeeping force is put into place to keep Hezbollah on their side of the border, then they can have a cease-fire.
If there were a cease fire now without these other things being in place, this thing would flare back up again in a very short period of time.

I don't like Bush and voted against him twice, however his SecState is right on the fucking money regarding this situation.

i think they are all retarded - every single one

Who gives a fuck
 

they are all fucking kookoo over there....this shit is never going to end...till the USA drops 10 atomic bombs on both the towelheads and the jews...after we do that we will live happy ever after with dollar a gallon gasoline...even though it will be 125 degrees everyday due to global warming..but whoi fucking cares, we will all be dead by then

one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist :error For example: U.S. harbored terrorists regarded by former soviet but U.S. called them freedom fighters when it was in its favor alright http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_war_in_Afghanistan

now, once again:

Lehi=Fighters for the Freedom of Israel (1940) regarded as terrorist gang by brits=
Hezbollah=Fighters for the Freedom of Lebanon (1982) regarded as terrorist group by israel/U.S.

same difference

No we've killed them with exactly the same level of disregard for human life.
If you think that's not true then you need to quit drinking the fucking kool-aid.

It's like the old philosophy question....if you could rid the world of all disease by killing one innocent person would you do it?
What about 100 innocent people, or 1000?

That's the way these things go, in order to protect ALL of it's citizens sometimes a country has to make choices like this that are unpopular in the short term.

How many "innocent people" do you think are going to die in Iran if we have to take out their nuclear facilities because they won't stop trying to develop a bomb?
Probably hundreds at least, because the Iranian government is run by the same kind of shit sucking scumbags that Israel is fighting right now, and they've hidden things in places where there will be lots of collateral damage.

But would you rather see a few innocent people die or have a nuclear Iran?

In a fully operational "normal" society like you and I live in... I would set down my gun and try talking to this madman knowing full well that he will be arrested after the exchange or the sniper team on the building across the street will be taking him out shortly.

Now what would you do if there was no prison and there was no police? Its just you, your baby, and a madman in the desert with nobody in sight. Keep in mind, madmen are very unpredictable.

What do you do? Sit there and see what the madman does, risking the chance that he kills your baby while you did nothing? Or do you do whatever you can and at least try to save your child?

if you make it to the list you have my vote :thumbsup

Actually, Hezbollah started with more than just the kidnapping, they also shot a number of rockets into Israel right away. But that aside...

Your response would be a valid one if there were no civilians involved. However, when there are civilians involved, the "no matter what the costs"-response is an immoral one, for it fails to recognize the intrinsic value of human lives.

As for the Lebanese government... they only just succeeded in (mostly) getting rid of Syria. Meanwhile, the largest Lebanese party already wanted to have Hezbollah demilitarized before this whole conflict, but they were unable to do so because it would probably have sparked a civil war if done by force, while the country was still lacking the stability to make that major step.
Of course, the current actions of Israel have made it all but impossible for Lebanon to actually follow through on this, because support for Hezbollah among the Shia population of Lebanon has been boosted immensely. After all, Hezbollah are the ones fighting the country that is killing their husbands, wives, fathers, daughters, etc.
What Israel is doing right now pretty much ensures that Hezbollah will continue to hold their position within Lebanon, while preventing Lebanon (with its (formerly?) pro-western majority in parliament) from entirely breaking of the influence of Syria and Iran.

and nothing personal Lenny, but think a pornographer lost or a nuclear Iran.

fucki,that's a no brainer here lol

i would add up as bonus family and close friends, package deal ;-)

Are you really so desperate to whore your sig that you have to resort to such childish racism? And then you couldn't come up with something that had even a hint of originality?

You are the weakest link. Absolutely pathetic.

Agreed. Maybe that's the reason why towel heads are pissed at the romantic relationship between the rag heads and potatoe heads :2 cents:

Gee that makes sense, let's not respond at all to the Hezbollah attacks because if we do then they'll be more popular with the Lebanese people.

Just one thing.
The whole Israel = Jews thing is getting old.

Please call them Israelies, and not Jews.

Yes they do moron.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanes...t_of_July_2005

Hezbollah members hold seats in the government, therefore they do represnt and speak for the people of Lebanon who elected them,

I think you and I are sort of on the same page.

I think... Israel is making the right decisions in a military sense but not in a political sense. The political backlash, the children now joining up with Hezbollah, and the brother Arab nations turning their support to Hezbollah is going to really strain things in the Middle East even more.

Like I said in the post you quoted, in some situations you have no choice. If the madman is likely to kill you otherwise, you have no choice. However, in this case, the madman is weak, limping, and although a threat, not a large one. There is no chance of Hezbollah defeating Israel, or even posing a serious threat to the continued existence of Israel.

During a cease-fire, negotiations with the UN could, and probably would, quickly lead to a peacekeeping force restraining Hezbollah's capacity to attack Israel. If that is the goal, a cease-fire would undoubtedly be the best strategy.

Meanwhile, these attacks on Lebanon completely destroy Lebanon's ability to get rid of the influence of Iran and Syria, and actually prevent Lebanon from disarming Hezbollah in the near future - something the majority of the Lebanese parliament does want.

There aren't any Jews in Israel? :1orglaugh

Stop man, im on your side here.

But you fuel all the anti-semites here when you use Jews instead of Israelies.

Oh, Israel should respond. Just not this way. A more limited response - including not going for those Hezbollah targets with the highest likelihood for a large number of civilian casualties - coupled with an urgent appeal to the UN for a peacekeeping force, as well as negotiations with the Lebanese majority for the eventual disarming of Hezbollah, just would have been a better response entirely.

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh

Right because Hezbollah has actually military bases and aren't scum who hide thier arsenal of weapons in daycares and apartments.


Im sure some tool on gfy has better militarty intellgence to where Hezbollah hides then the actually IDF.

I highly doubt Israel was ever afraid of Hezbollah destroying them.

Israel and Iran are arch enemies. This is obvious. Hezbollah and Iran are fuck buddies. This too is obvious. Iran is feeding Hezbollah with money and equipment and has for years. With no intervention, that stockpile will only continue to grow. That is evidenced by a few of the recent rockets fired deep into Israel by Hezbollah.

Israel does not want that stockpile to grow, for obvious reasons. Sitting down and having a nice chat about the issue over tea and crumpets is not going to deplete that stockpile anymore than telling Iran to stop their uranium enrichment program is going to actually make them stop without force.

*yawns* Fuck the jewrats and fuck the sandfags, let them duke it out and for once let the USA stay out of it. Wait... what do you mean the USA has already gotten in on it and is funding the jewrats even more money to kill the sandfags with? Oh god damn it.

Exactly, except for one thing: even in a military sense, Israel is not making the right decisions. The current campaign is aimed at "destroying" Hezbollah, the possibility of which is a dangerous illusion.

Since Hezbollah is a terrorist group rather than a traditional army, it is virtually impossible to cause them severe damage, much less destroy them, through traditional military means. They have little land and few buildings to defend, and can easily "disappear" among the population. To disarm them, strong support from within Lebanon is essential. That can only be achieved through political means, by boosting the antipathy most Lebanese feel (I hope "feel" is still the right word, and has not changed to "felt") towards Hezbollah, and by gaining strong international support.