when are pictures considered child porn?
 

my site is full of chicks (and guys) that are under 18. now i know none of them are showing anything that would be rated "r" in a movie theater (topless, nudity of any sort) because my sites are what i call "pg13."

however, i do have a lot of ~ 16 year old girls submitting topless pics of then holding/covering their boobs, or other poses which show a "damn lot" of skin but wouldn't be considered nudity.

are there guidelines somewhere on the net i can read so i can be fully compliant? or is my definition ok - as long as it wouldn't be rated "r" and they've stated they are at least 13, i am "ok" ?

i figure there are some resident experts on this, as well as people who may have had to deal with this issue themselves. i just want to make sure i'm being legal and playing by the rules..

:eek7

http://www.child-law-watch.net/defin...rn-18-2256.htm

I'm no expert at all, but when in doubt talk to a lawyer *before* shit goes down or you'll be needing one after the shit hits the fan. You seem like a nice guy, be careful. Consider only dealing with old gay men in thongs...

cheers

..And how do I make a site like this?

Young girls showing any kind of skin shall not be shown online.

:ugone2far

Good luck.

Make sure and memorize your lawyers phone number.

anyone know a good lawyer who can advise me and could help me out quickly for free or for pretty cheap? my site has no revenue model.. and it's not worth me spending thousands on some fancy lawyer if it's for my free site :P

Although naked underage girls isn't necessarily illegal (if it was you wouldn't see many TV adverts for baby diapers) you are on dodgy ground - play safe and stick to only nude 18+ girls!

:eek7

:eek7

Play it on the safe side, and ask these people. I am sure they would be happy to answer any questions you may have.

that's the thing. i figured i can play it safe by not allowing anything nude. i guess the one provision that i'm concerned with is:

(E) lascivious exhibition of the genitals or pubic area of any person;

lascivious is a pretty damn subjective word. which is why i want to get a lawyer's advice.

lascivious. The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition. 2000.
...Given to or expressing lust; lecherous. 2. Exciting sexual desires; salacious.

so is that saying that if i went to a teenybopper britney spears concert with all the 13-15 year old girls in tube tops and shit, i'd be in a CP haven? depending on the person anything can express lust or excite a sexual desire.

:uhoh

If not for money, why are you doing it? Like most CPers to satisfy your own needs?

[i]

Now you're going to start telling us these children want to do it.
Any other photographers getting nude pictures of 16 year old girls? If I got a picture of an underage girl in the post it goes immediatly back to the parents or the police.

Go out and find a grown up woman.

If they are under 18 and you are displaying them in any manner to people in an effort for that person to pleasure themselves it is CP!

VERY wrong! VERY sick! VERY PERVERTED!

i didn't say they wanted to do it - but i'm not forcing them to. people submit pics all day, of themselves, of porn, of all kinds of shit. i review them and i kill off all that i can. i am asking for advice as i may need to change my definition of what is too risque and begin killing more.

i do not like being phrased as a "CP"'er - I am quite young myself, so these girls are pretty close to the age I was dating not too long ago. besides, their pics are on all other sites in the same fashion, it's not just my site promoting them. however, i do want to make sure my site is clean and compliant with ASACP rules. i will let the other sites deal with it on their own. if the girls/guys don't like it, they can go somewhere else.

i've emailed ASACP and asked for someone to contact me to review my sites and give me some advice as to where to draw the lines and such.

I've been a pornographer for 25 years and don't get any 16 year olds sending semi naked pics. But then I do state very clearly that the girls HAVE TO BE 18+ You must not be so strict. Your age is not an issue. So long as you are over 18, you can go to jail if you step over the line. Ask a lawyer.

yes i know this. i'm saying, for the 40 year old guys with kids, this seems radical, but for someone as young as myself, a 16 year old girl was dateable only a couple years back.

this is why i want to get reviewed and compliant. i do state clearly since i solicit a couple pieces of info from them (email address, age) that they must be 13 (compliant with COPPA) but now i want to make the rest of the shit is compliant. mind you i'm not asking anyone to post pics, it's a generally public site, just like hotornot.com, i'm not recruiting girls or anything.

maybe tonight i'll go through all the pics and reject all the "iffy" ones pending an ASACP review.

thanks for the pointers and the numerous posts about the importance of this issue. i want to be a team player and be well within the rules to be safe :)

This is for an actual porn site? There are other pics of hardcore and softcore porn on this site?

this isnt for porn at all.

this is for a free, fun *NON NUDE* rating site. there are tons of them out there.

http://ratemythong.com is one of mine, for example.

If you have to ask where the rules on CP are then you have crossed them and need to seek help!

If a 16 year old was dateable a few years ago, does not mean she should be on your site!

Hell I am not that old and I KNOW what lines to cross and what not to!

If you are promoting an adult NON NUDE site featuring 16 year olds you are a C Pornographer!

Plain and simple!

Just my :2 cents:

Since these people are apperently sending these to you via emial you probably don't have U.S.C. TITLE 18, SECTION 2257 COMPLIANCE information.

Why take the chance of some real bad shit happening to you?

first point, agreed. i was merely using that as a reference point from my angle.

second point: it's not an "adult site" - it's for all ages, hence the reason i made it non-nude, so anyone can enjoy it. they won't be able to view actual nudity, but depending on the definition of CP, they might be able to view/submit CP (again, the line is so hazy, it's hard to tell, so i'd rather be safe than sorry and clean it now.)

it's through a webform, the only thing i ask is for a non-verified age.

i didn't know there was a chance, i was thinking non nude = safe. which is why i decided to ask before it got out of hand, and why i intend to act before this "bad shit" can happen :)

If they aren't 18 with ID all you hear from me is the sound of my size 13s beating tracks for the hills....

If you GET CP sent to you the FBI can send you to ass fuck hotel (PRISON):Kissmy

You have filesa on your computer of CP!

Guess what you are in violation of US law!

I found these link descriptions on your site under:

home > browse by age > ages 13 to 15 >


XX yr. old cam girl, journal, pictures, nudes

lots of teenage skin...

My name is Sierra. I am XX years old, from the USA. Sweet, innocent girl.


I wouldn't put that on my site for anything.

I wouldnt even CLICK THE LINK!

Too risky!

I dont even want HIS site cached on my system!

Anyone got a link to Internet Eraser ?

Yeah here!

you should require them to be 18 to post on your site. also have disclaimers.

i will have to clean out my computer then as well too :P i know i do not have "nude" pics of any < 18 but i will also make sure i don't have anything risque either. i'm getting pointers on the definitions and such right now. thanks for all the help guys.

it will be resolved and conformed to the strictest rules.

yeah, one of my other things will be to put in some sort of review process for what the girls write about their sites on that site. just like google, i'm learning the hard way, some girl put down "LOLITA CAM" for her site. i wonder if she knows that that's the unholiest of words on the internet..

Whoa, the board is called gofuckyourself, and I think you just did.

Did you ever consider considering this before your shit was up?:eek7 :ugone2far :eek7

there are plenty of sites out there like mine, with more starting per day. most of them do not allow nude, but anything else is allowed. they've been around for quite some time with huge amounts of exposure, i'm sure if it was breaking and laws they'd be shut down a hell of a long time ago. i am making sure that i am indeed within the rules of 2256, which it looks like i am. i am going through all my pictures right now to ensure none of them show anything relating to "sexually explicit conduct" in those terms.

this was probably the wrong board to ask, as many people think i am asking in regards to a porn site, or selling these pictures or something. i just wanted some advice as to who to talk to with my questions about CP, not get into a discussion here with people who aren't lawyers or representatives from authoritative bodies on the subject.

i'm already on the path to validating, cleaning, and ensuring i do not have any violations. so thanks everyone.

They are being shut down!

IMO this is the scurge of this industry! Pedophiles like you!

they are not being shut down. you obviously have no insight into the sites i'm talking about. it's fine, i will talk to people who have legal clout into the situation and can help more than a bunch of name calling.

you should be happy im conscious of the fact i may be in a hazy area and i am trying to clean it up.

you said ratemythong.com is yours? dude,there are chicks that are like 13 years old on there pulling their pants half way down,that IS sexually explicit AND CP in my book...


Those other ratemyphoto websites make SURE to say NOTHING CLOSE TO NUDE...I suggest you just do a regular ratemyphoto instead of showing lil girl asses

http://ratemythong.com/?id=104474


Look at that,dont even look at the pic...look at the GROWN men comments beneath the pic ... thats a shame dude,take that down

This is what i've heard regarding this. I'll say right now, i'm definetley no expect on this matter.

I was under the impression that displaying underage girls in suggestive poses (girls bearing their asses covered wearing nothing but a g-string is suggestive in my opinion) is illegal. Whether they be nude, or even wearing something like a bikini.

If you're going to do non-nude, there are plenty of 18 + year old girls willing to slap a pic up on these things. A prime example of sites with chicks like this... ratemypicture.com, ratemyprofile.com, facethejury.com

They have underage people on them, but nothing that is anywhere near as suggestive as a 13 year old girl brandishing her ass for everyone to see.

:2 cents:

If you're in the adult biz, it's INSANE (did I make that clear enough?) to have nude pictures of underagers either on your site or in your computer. INSANE, spelled I-N-S-A-N-E. I don't care how tasteful they are. For a real photo artist, it's a bit different (but not entirely clear), but for an adult webmaster, it's just plain stupid.

Remember, it isn't YOU who decides if something is obscene, it's a cop, a prosecutor, a judge or jury. What you or I think has NOTHING to do with it.

i agree 100% with UnseenWorld.

I don't doubt you don't have have any intention to cross the law borders, but when you deal with anything under 18y.old just say NO because you can end up with serious problems without even realising it like now.

Dude, do you even know the definition of a pedophile? It's not someone who looks at 16 year old girls. Pedophiles like children - prepubescent kids.

If you want to say that content with girls under 18 is illegal, fine, but there is a difference between people who look teen girls and those who look at little kids. Many cultures accept 16 year olds as legal and mature - is everyone who lives in one of those countries a pedophile?

I guarantee you that you have looked at a hot 15 year old girl at least once this year. Does that make you a pedophile? No, of course not.

You would be breaking the law if you touched her, and it's a fine law, but you are not a pedophile because you look at a 17 year old girl. Even if you have sex with a 17 year old girl, you're not a pedophile.

Don't break the law, but don't be ridiculous about calling people pedophiles either.

Why play with fire? You know what type of person is looking at your site. If you have sex with a girl under the age of 17 (in most states) you are breaking the law. If you look at or have pictures of a girl nude or in sexually explicit pose you are breaking the law.(in most states)
Why skirt the issue is the amount your making on the site going to cover the cost (not to mention the humiliation) of a trial if some dad or mom see's his daughter topless on your site and screams child porn. When someone accuses you of being a child pornographer you (in the eyes of the common man) will be guilty until proven so.

Is it worth it? Thats what you need to figure out not what the law is or if your breaking it, but is it going to be worth it when the shit hits the fan?

fuel

I'm getting a kick out of how CP and pedophilia is being thrown around in this thread. There are TONS of sites around exactly like the one talked about above. People like to know what others think about their looks. Fuck, there's even one for adult webmasters. You should see LittleC, hot damn!

Anyway, this certainly does not make Mike a pedophile or a CP pusher. Anyone claiming so might want to reconsider what they say next time.

Mike, definitely get more strict on every submission. I'm assuming you review all pictures prior to listing. But for a Rate My Thong site, you're better off requiring a 18+ limit. There's no use risking it, especially since you're not making any green.

I must agree 100%.... I hope you understand and have some
wipe disk proggy's....

Hey fiction, according to California law - if you are in possession of lude pictures of, or have sex with someone under the age 18 you are a sex offender, a pedophile.

I have family that is in law enforcement and criminal law!

:321GFY

Your on questionable territory dude, definetly get in contact with a lawyer. But first start by saying you must be 18 to post

He takes the chance for two and only two reasons. He thinks he will make money at this or it's his bag. Personally I go for the latter.


He is presenting young girls as sexual objects. Even if they want to do it girls of this age should be discouraged. This is my moral view point.

I also agree 101% with Unseenworld, it has nothing to do with what we think.

However we need him like a hole in the head. Everytime they try to ban porn they use guys/sites like this as an excuse.

Let Aaron back and ban this guy. AM is just a pain, this guy is dangerous to our business.

TOTALLY OFF TOPIC, but I have to give charly :thumbsup :thumbsup for that last line!

That takes a big man! Congrats!