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Paul Markham 06-02-2006 01:15 AM
Affiliates only
 
I've been thinking and looking into doing trials recently and no matter how I budget it, logically it can't make more money.

I come back to my original thought that this is a surfer who will not spend $30 for a month, for what ever reason, so is he going to be a big spender on upgrading, rebilling, upselling, cross selling or any other means.

More so than a guy who spends $30 straight off?

So which affiliate has made more money from trials on a program than they did with the full month and who makes more money with trials over all than full memberships?

Vote in the poll and tell us here how you find it and how you drive traffic.

2HousePlague 06-02-2006 01:17 AM
The bigger the "value", the longer the retention. Why is that so hard to grasp.

2hp

Damian_Maxcash 06-02-2006 01:17 AM
Hit edit quick - you forgot the poll.......

Paul Markham 06-02-2006 01:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2HousePlague
The bigger the "value", the longer the retention. Why is that so hard to grasp.

2hp
We know by giving affiliates more money we retain them longer.

We know by giving content store clients more value we retain them longer.

We know by giving paysite members 2 new videos and 4 new image sets a day we retain them longer.

Just trying to get this trial thing decided on.

I've looked at it long and hard and there are two ways to pay for it. Upsell a guy who would only spend $3 when he joined or shave one way or another. What are the returns on trying to upsell a guy who would not spend $30 compared to upselling a guy who would spend $30?

What is the magic formula that says a guy spending $3 will spend more money, over a period of time, than a guy spending $30 a month?

2HousePlague 06-02-2006 01:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Markham
We know by giving affiliates more money we retain them longer.

We know by giving content store clients more value we retain them longer.

We know by giving paysite members 2 new videos and 4 new image sets a day we retain them longer.

Just trying to get this trial thing decided on.

I've looked at it long and hard and there are two ways to pay for it. Upsell a guy who would only spend $3 when he joined or shave one way or another. What are the returns on trying to upsell a guy who would not spend $30 compared to upselling a guy who would spend $30?

What is the magic formula that says a guy spending $3 will spend more money, over a period of time, than a guy spending $30 a month?
Paul, it's way too late for a detailed discussion on this. But, for all that I have heard and read from those "who know', the basic failure in Marketing operative here is a failure to create for the customers (at the moment of purchase) a Value Picture that divides the dollar amount requested (reasonably) by the number of times he is likely to want to jerk-off during that period of time. It's one thing to win a sale on the basis of $3/nut. It's another to win it on the basis of X nuts in Y days for Z dollars.

I know I have not answered your question. But I don't think that's a productive question. More productive (and timely) I think is "When are we going to learn to appeal to our customers at moments when they do not have their cocks in their hands?"


2hp

Paul Markham 06-02-2006 01:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2HousePlague

Paul, it's way too late for a detailed discussion on this. But, for all that I have heard and read from those "who know', the basic failure in Marketing operative here is a failure to create for the customers (at the moment of purchase) a Value Picture that divides the dollar amount requested (reasonably) by the number of times he is likely to want to jerk-off during that period of time. It's one thing to win a sale on the basis of $3/nut. It's another to win it on the basis of X nuts in Y days for Z dollars.

I know I have not answered your question. But I don't think that's a productive question. More productive (and timely) I think is "When are we going to learn to appeal to our customers at moments when they do not have their cocks in their hands?"
I hear what your saying here.

A guy is reluctant to spend $30, but $3 is an easier sale and once inside you can upsell him becasue he sees what you've got is worth it.

But when he's in the site what make people think he will then spend more than a guy spending $30?

SteveLightspeed 06-02-2006 01:56 AM
Paul, you are missing a key point. The guy that buys a trial is often the same guy that buys a full membership.

Think of when a new softdrink is introduced... You aren't sure you'll like it, but it sounds good... So would you try it if it was only available by the case?

I think a lot of surfers have been ripped off too many times, and it could make them *nervous* if there is no trial option. What is that site trying to hide?

We designed our system to monitor signups per site, then turn trials on during slow sales periods and off when sales are hot. It helps keeps ratios low and revenue high. We also usually don't offer trials to "typein" traffic --- those are usually ex-members coming back for more because they already tried it and liked it.

I really like the idea of letting each affiliate decide if a trial option would be best suited for his traffic to the paysite. An experienced affiliate knows what his traffic is looking for.

I may be totally wrong, if I knew all the answers I wouldn't be working at 2am...

Steve Lightspeed

Beaver Bob 06-02-2006 02:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveLightspeed
I really like the idea of letting each affiliate decide if a trial option would be best suited for his traffic to the paysite. An experienced affiliate knows what his traffic is looking for.
i absolutely agree. Let the affiliate decide whether their traffic gets trial signups or not. This is what we do and it works nicely :thumbsup

SteveLightspeed 06-02-2006 02:06 AM
Another angle to look at is from your affiliates point-of-view. Most are still into "signup ratios" to determine where to send their traffic. It sure sounds better to them that you convert 1:200 instead of 1:1000, even when they are getting 5 trials instead of one full join. How many affiliates will pull their traffic if you are converting 1:1000?

Earnings per unique should be the stat that matters most, but how often do you hear anyone bragging about earning 8 cents a click vs. bragging about 1:90 sales ratios?

Paul Markham 06-02-2006 03:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveLightspeed
Paul, you are missing a key point. The guy that buys a trial is often the same guy that buys a full membership.

Think of when a new softdrink is introduced... You aren't sure you'll like it, but it sounds good... So would you try it if it was only available by the case?

I think a lot of surfers have been ripped off too many times, and it could make them *nervous* if there is no trial option. What is that site trying to hide?

We designed our system to monitor signups per site, then turn trials on during slow sales periods and off when sales are hot. It helps keeps ratios low and revenue high. We also usually don't offer trials to "typein" traffic --- those are usually ex-members coming back for more because they already tried it and liked it.

I really like the idea of letting each affiliate decide if a trial option would be best suited for his traffic to the paysite. An experienced affiliate knows what his traffic is looking for.

I may be totally wrong, if I knew all the answers I wouldn't be working at 2am...

Steve Lightspeed
No I totally understand that point especially with sites like yours. Which incidently are one of our best upsells at the moment. :thumbsup

What I'm talking about is some of the very large figures I see quoted from site that simply are not as good as yours.

Paul Markham 06-02-2006 11:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveLightspeed
Another angle to look at is from your affiliates point-of-view. Most are still into "signup ratios" to determine where to send their traffic. It sure sounds better to them that you convert 1:200 instead of 1:1000, even when they are getting 5 trials instead of one full join. How many affiliates will pull their traffic if you are converting 1:1000?

Earnings per unique should be the stat that matters most, but how often do you hear anyone bragging about earning 8 cents a click vs. bragging about 1:90 sales ratios?
Very true.

Maybe I need to look at trials again.

gooddomains 06-03-2006 12:20 AM
this is a good thread, thx a lot Steve and Paul

The Ghost 06-03-2006 12:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveLightspeed
Another angle to look at is from your affiliates point-of-view. Most are still into "signup ratios" to determine where to send their traffic. It sure sounds better to them that you convert 1:200 instead of 1:1000, even when they are getting 5 trials instead of one full join. How many affiliates will pull their traffic if you are converting 1:1000?

Earnings per unique should be the stat that matters most, but how often do you hear anyone bragging about earning 8 cents a click vs. bragging about 1:90 sales ratios?

This is a VERY true statement.


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