WARNING: Business Thread: I see a big shift in Adult companies.......
 

That move their hosting/operations from the US to Europe. With all the changes
in legislation (2257), billing rules, etc it seems like more and more adult companies make
the move. I also notice more and more US hosting companies that are in the
process to setup an European Point of Pressence.

Have you thought about moving your operations yet? How much more till you
decide? The new .XXX that's coming will probably boost this trend even more.
Has the Strong Euro versus the Weak Dollar got something todo with it?

Share your thoughts. :pimp

This "big shift" seems to come around every 6 months or so in this industry with every new "sky is falling" obstacle thrown in it's way.

And yet... nothing has really changed.

well I do see changes. I notice a lot of US companies opening shop here.
Some of them are clients but I also see others as I'm visiting all the data
centers here in Amsterdam every single day of the week.

Dunno about others but we are certainly looking to move our processing to EU instead of keep it in the US. And if things heat up to do with any of those other issues you mentioned above surely many othesr will also. As well as hosting etc

It seems stupid to move to the EU. In Germany for example you can't run an adult business at all. Smart people will move to small island countries and other countries with privacy laws.

I also get more and more requests for info from US companies at the moment.
It started a few months ago but I get more and more. Maybe not everyone
will do it inmediately but there seem to be a lot of companies thinking about it
and investigating the options.

:2 cents:

Well there are very liberal countries in the EU aswell.....The Netherlands for
example but also Spain, Czech Republic, Hungary, etc.

How does this law affect Canada?

there is always a way around it

it doesn't :winkwink:

Seems to me like someone is trying to stir up interest (and perhaps fear) into hosting in Europe.

In case you haven't noticed, nothing has changed with 2257 to date. And I doubt it will. ANd I believe anything has changed with the credit card billing rules either.

;)

The .xxx thing will affect the servers in EUrope too. They control the content at the CLIENT (the user).

Egomancer

Hahaha you're funny man. First of all I don't own or sell hosting.

In the EU there is no such thing as 2257.

Credit Card billing is different in the EU. Rules are different than in the US.
For example. In the EU there is a 2% chargeback limit instead of 1% in the US.

I'm not stirring up shit. I just expressed what I see and notice.

I have clients from the EU and the US for me it really doesn't make any difference if they're US, EU or Moon based.

If you live in the US it doesnt matter where you host.

Yes the change in TLD yes but all the side effects that may become a result
of this change are not as likely to happen in the EU.

:2 cents:

I didn't say that.

If you live in the US you live by US rules and it does not matter where you host.

If you're a US citizen, it doesn't matter where you host or live.

That's not correct. If a US citizen starts an EU company and the Principle of
that company lives in the US there's no need to comply with 2257

Some of the moving has been progressing for a few years now SG, tho the series of issues being proposed as legislation in the US and the activities of ICANN sure help in the decision-making process as to whether to depart from the US.

Totally agree on the EU - there are now more seats at screens in the EU than exist in the US and it's a logical location to have a presence and where cabling is good and where processers have more laws/rulings for protection of client funds.

Only my :2 cents: - the domestic laws of any country are irrelevant to anyone who does not live, host or have a business presence in that country.

Any company or serious webmaster should already have a "presence" - in whatever form, - in a variety of countries and a series of options (plan B's) in place to deal with changes in the operating environment - whether this may stem from.

There are increasing numbers of "facilities" (hosting, billing etc) in different parts of the world and it's common sense to spead risk and use them.

On the flip side - folks residing in industrialized and/or high-tax regime countries can be restricted in what they choose to do in that as long as they continue to live in their "home country", they need to comply with domestic laws. If that country does not have laws favorable to net operations, they may be violating local laws even if they are operating in another jurisdiction. Basically they need to actually live in a country where laws are favorable to net trading - it sure saves a lot of hassle and, if a low-tax or no tax jurisdiction is selected, - simplifies tax issues.

On your "Thought about moving?" question SG - yep.. done that years ago and never regretted one second. It was clear there was going to be problems years back - it was only a matter of when. We may be concerned over XXX or whatever today, but this too, will pass - then there will be more never-ending "issues". :)

is Amsterdam a nice place to visit

Why not just setup an offshore company protected by a thrust fund and all legally in order like our company is doing and I know how many other companies are doing as well. Its easy, safe and very reliable. If anyone wants to know how to do this I can forward you to the company that we used to create our offshore setup for Pinelake Production.

Very good post. You hit the nail right on the head. Things are changing
and have been for the last few years. I just noticed a bigger than normal
increase and it made me wonder.

Depends on the circumstances of the folks involved in whether they can operate offshore - eg the idea of a US citizen being offshore is like telling a cat where the mouse is :pimp

Offshore depends on the background of the people who are going to participate in an offshore enterprise.

No doubts the change will speed up SG - possibly prompted by the current US currency valuations. There is a level where it makes no sense to just accept payment in dollars when processors in eg the EU can offer multi-currency payments - and have more security in place for webmaster funds.

Also agree with MarcDuvall in that if any webmaster has the ability to actually live in a "net friendly" country and then use offshore in whatever jurisdictions and in a legal manner - it's got to be worth checking out. (The EU can even be treated as an "offshore" if a suitable structure is in place - and no problems with any VISA "rules").

That day has already come. Verotel should be cleaning up with this option.

Yep - was trying to avoid being a pimp for Verotel :pimp :winkwink:

If it was iBill... well...:)

im going to hope you werent serious in this statement.

you might know a thing or two about dutch(EU) law. but thats not the case in america. if your an american and you work in america.... your bound to american laws PERIOD.

by your logic.... its legal to sell drugs in certain countries. so i can setup a drug dealing company in one of those countries, come to america, and sell drugs and its OK? think a little harder dude.

POsted in wrong thread sorry

I never said any different. read a little better dude :winkwink:

You hit the core issue of .. (a) where you reside (b) where you operate a business and (c) are you a US citizen? (The US is the exception on various issues)

Fundamentally, where you reside is the governing factor. There is an obligation to comply with all laws where you reside. (Whether a US citizen or not).

Where you operate a business - ie if this is outside your "home country" has a possible bearing on taxation within your home country from the moment any funds are pulled into your resident country from a foreign business. This is further messed up if you happen to want to run an offshore corp and are a US citizen - where there is an obligation to declare interest in all business activities worldwide - and pay any taxes due on this to the IRS. These taxes being payable wherever a US person actually lives - be that in the US or elsewhere. The requirement to declare interest in foreign corps in the US is a problem when offshore is involved - since the whole object of offshore privacy is obliterated.

For citizens of other countries who happen to reside outside their home country - this is not a problem.

Bottom line... the ideal scenario (does not apply to the US unless citizenship is relinquished) is actually live in a "net friendly" country (the majority are) and as an added benefit, a country which has low or no taxation. The only laws which apply in that instance are the laws of the country in which you reside and to a lesser extent - any countries used as new hosts. (And.. these can be selected from "net friendly" countries to obviate hassle)

Many companies are moving offshore. You would be nuts to sit in the states and wait for the next round of bullshit law changes. The Euro isn't that strong against the dollar yet, that might be motivation in the future but right now, its just the stupid rules and regs.

It makes ya wonder why the US keeps wanting to shoot itself in the foot with such regularity. Most folks who do shoot themselves in the foot kinda learn a lesson - but not in this case.

Adult biz is, in a way, similar to gambling. The US govt decided to protect their citizens from gambling - so what happens? Gambling operations are flourishing in other countries when govts even amend laws to accomodate net gambling. Now the US is complaining about losing gambling taxation revenue, but still continuing with the implementation of laws outlawing it. It's like wanting butter spread on both sides of the bread - it's not going to happen.

All I can say is that moving to a "Offshore" solution is just a matter of time when comes to the legal ebb and flow of this industry.

Amen brotha. Sing the praises. :thumbsup

Best regards,

Chicken Little

:winkwink:

.xxx is scary...but have to move outta the us just to keep my .coms up and going...

fuckin a..

U.S. politicians are idiots..they try to regulate gambling and the adult industry and the industries move offshore....losing alot of money for the U.S. and making the U.S. economy shittier...

i don't know how the fuck they are going to enforce this...even if they force U.S. citizens and companies to move adult websites to .XXX there will still be porn on .com and other TLD's coming from the rest of the world....all this will do is cut out money coming into the U.S. from the adult industry.....and the big players in the industry might just move out of the U.S. or setup shop outside the U.S. to keep their adult domains on regular TLD's...

more inquiries to host out of the US ... I see mor erequest for Canadian hosting ...

But again, this ia a preventive measure, and if you reside in the US , it will not prevent you from being prosecuted..

On the other hand, you site is safer abroad ....

why is the american government so against gambling?

in regards to the comapny yes.

but in regards to the principle, he is bound by US law and can have charges brought against him.

The movement is aways better than stagnation. I think it's ok that more and more adult companies are moving to the EU. It's should essentially boost the EU internet-related business and drop down the prices on hosting ect. Course it will be a serious blow for the US-based IT industry (I mean everything that somehow related to the Net), but who cares about that if eben Bush said: "let's fuck that damn US Internet-related industry and dollar" and help to the EU and Euro?

Can't really say jjjay. There are probably too many cooks in the kitchen and all have different agendas.

Possibly some of the underlying reasons are .. basically greed and wanting a share of the pie either personally, or for "friends and associates" and of course govts want to tax the profits.

There will always be those who claim gambling is "evil" and causes harm within a society and not saying there is no validity to this, but seriously doubt their motivations. There is also the concept that the "govt knows best" and will protect folks from the evils of gambling - but, I'm sure you'll agree - they don't know what's best and could not protect a flea from drowning.

If you look at countries where gambling is no problem - eg the UK, - in reality, there is little social problem with this and it does not appear to be the "evil" some fear.

Only my :2 cents: .. the US goverment want the tax revenue, but also want to control to a silly level - unless they also have a major stake in the pie.

great thread... and in summary.!!!
 

Firstly have been trawling for this shit for days, finally i see some info thats usefull. How does 2257 affect UK webmaster with site hosted in holland? well judging from this thread not too badly, if 2257 is a us law then there is no probs right. Buy hangon almost all UK / european sites have a 2257 compliance note. So are they just covering their jacksies, just in case? Also if this site is merely a distributor of porn rather than the creator or publisher (the site allows amateurs to upload their own porn) then even better.

yes in 2257 is states: "the term "produces" means to produce, manufacture, or publish any book, magazine, periodical, film, video tape, computer generated image, digital image, or picture, or other similar matter and includes the duplication, reproduction, or reissuing of any such matter, but does not include mere distribution or any other activity which does not involve hiring, contracting for managing, or otherwise arranging for the participation of the performers depicted;"

See adultwork.co.uk for a perfect example of this. Are they legal? yes it would seem they are.

Any thoughts?