Running a paysite, rocket science or not?
 

Been just over a year since we opened www.paulmarkhamteens.com and I think it's time to share some of the knowledge I've gained. I say me because it's run mostly by me so I'm the guy to kick.

I honestly do not think it's rocket science to run or open a paysite, in fact it's simple. The trick is in making it work to a profit, but that's not too hard.

I admit I started with a bit of knowledge regarding what the porn surfer, who's into teens likes, but the traffic and paysite knowledge was zero to low. And yes I did start with some content, about $25,000 would of bought our entire inventory 18 months ago when we started and $1,000 a month would pay for the updates. And we did have a program that worked, but they can be bought so not too difficult.

The hardest thing was rewording the site to suit a paysite rather than a content store, a work still in progress and if there is a cheap script writer looking for a job he can apply here.

Other than that the whole thing was pretty simple, we got a design made, then another one, then the one we have and I think it works best. My name did not bring in 100s of affiliates as I thought it would, but it might of bought in a few. The main thing is they stay, which is the key.

Other than that the site runs itself and other than adding 3 new content every day to the site and to the affiliates area there is little to do. The site runs itself and makes a healthy profit. It would of made a profit even if we had to buy in everything and start from scratch. Rocket science? No fucking way.

Oh yes and finally the big mystery. TRAFFIC. No rocket science here either, you convert you get traffic, you convert well you get more. You convert very well you get more and can be more generous. We let others do what they are best at and concentrate on what we do best. How hard is that to work out.

ok.
your point ?

Hey Paul.. Nice to see things are going well for ya.

Cheater! :)

I understand it isn't a cake walk either way, but you have/had a serious advantage..... Content.

Content is the most expensive part of a paysite, giving you mass updates and making your members happy from content is really the only key to a paysite, everything falls into place rather quickly.

Either way, good job with the way the market is these days.

Paul, it's not really quite as simple as you make out. It is bloody hard work IMHO, if it wasn't ever tom, dick and harry would be doing it. Many try, and many fail.

oh ya the paysite business is easy, I mean, look at how successful new affiliate programs are.. they come into existence and blamo.. they are instantly profitable and stay around for ever. You hardly ever see companies that run paysites going out of business, its unheard of.

ive seen better spam around here

i think the only reason more people don't have their own paysites is the initial investment cost to start something that will attract people.

Starting question mark posts every day: annoying or not?

lol4real :1orglaugh

Turning a profit is all part-and-parcel with running a paysite, which makes these two sentences somewhat contrary - IMO.

Kudos on the first year of operation, though. While there's no denying some aspects of operating paysites IS relatively easy...those of us who have been in the game for a while know there's other aspects that require a fair bit of hard work and dedication.

A year? Shit.. I thought you just opened it up

I run a paysite and affiliate program. It is not rocket science, but it's hard work...

noone knows about it though ;)

Selling adult is about as sophisticated as selling produce.

Traffic and those who command it are the real innovators. Everything else is meaningless (except for unique content and a great brand).

Although others will disagree in order to make themselves feel better.

so whats more profitable right now, the paysite or the content you shoot?

I like to keep it secret! :)

No, it will be lauched for the public soon enough!

not many paysites located on the moon, so I guess not

To start a business discussion.

The content would of cost $25,000 the first years updates $12,000 total $37,000.

Given the cost of the program, design, hosting and other things. Let's say first years investment. $50,000 plus our labour. That was repaid after the first 6 months.

Give me another business that returns investment that fast.

What I did have is KNOWLEDGE & EXPERIENCE in porn and that can't be bought.

Got to say some start on a shoe string, some with little to no porn knowledge and many think because they can write a program, talk Affiliatish and design a page they can sell porn. I can't do any of those things, but look at me.

Give the man a prize. :thumbsup

This is the only industry where a lot of people expect to make money with no money.

Plus little to know industry knowledge.

No, it's not rocket science at all. But that doesn't make it easy.

Our industry has trypically had a low entry barrier; Any webmaster with meager design skills and a camera can open up a site or two, and eventually build a program around it.

Traffic is the hard part. Back in the day it was easy to get traffic. I remember the days when meeting the right person could double the amount of traffic you got overnight - and the sales to go along with it. Those days are gone now.

Selling isn't sophisticated by comparison to producing unique and fresh product - but both rely on a healthy dose of innovation and creativity. One needn't be an einstein...but a little knowledge and experience can go a long way in this industry.

The guys who control the traffic are the guys who convert the best and can afford to pay the most.

Unless you want to send traffic to a site that pays less than others.

Traffic is a commodity, one man pays $30 a sign up on 1:1,000 conversions, another site pays $35 on 1:500 conversions. Where are you sending it?

Yes unique content and branding are very important. That has been proven over the years.

The content we shoot. There are a lot more ways to sell/profit from content than a paysite. Why do you think we turn away exclusive work?

So why do you think I find it so much easier than those guys?

Think it through.

good posting Paul

Great thread!

The only reason I don't have a paysite/affiliate program is because I'm an asshole.

No other reason. Just an asshat retard asshole.

I tested it out a few years ago and I had no complaints. The difference is with me I make my content. No models or photogs to pay, no forms no nothing. So total cost per month was like $70. It paid for itself in an hour.

If I had to pay me for all the art I do I wouldn't be able to afford it. No company could. No matter how big shot they are. So in my case I technically was at a loss as I couldn't afford to pay me for the multiple jobs I did.

Now the good part is I didn't need 100's of webmasters to sell. 100s showed up and guys ask me several times a day to do an affiliate program. What I found out is that you can have 100 webmasters selling and only 4 know what the fuck they are doing. My site has always, always had high retention. That was another plus point, in addition because I email and ICQ members giving tips and just chatting. It gives them that cool secret club house feeling.

So a pal of mine who is huge in japanese toons got hold of me last week and he's hooking me up big time. I have no choice but to start a paysite/affiliate program.

I think his point is that he needs affiliates

Fuckin' idiot.

Paul, while I had zero interest in opening up a paysite I did so a couple of years ago to prove a point to a friend. Under $1000 in non exclusive content, 1 $400 / month feed, and a crappy design an outsourced designer did. I didn't care about the design because I marketed it myself on a hand made non graphical landing page that linked to join.

The results, 1:300 with good retention.

Oh, and I charged $25 for a 7 day trial rebill to $50.

In short I agree with you 100% except that you can survive without 25k down and 0 affiliates.

The point of this thread, for those who have not seen it, is this.

There is so much BULLSHIT spoken about how to run a good paysite and most of it will not work.

Let's look at what people say.

Open a butchers shop, organise the people to see what you have for sale, organise the shop, design and payment system.

Then go out and shoot the first thing you see and who cares if you know little to nothing about what you are killing, how to butcher it and how to present it. Because the secret is in the number of people you show it to.

Works if the people you are selling to don't know horse meat from prime beef.

So stop assuming the people buying porn are as clueless about as the person shooting it.

Oh I forgot it's an amateur, reality butcher shop so the meat can taste like shit. :1orglaugh

The moral of this is not what Rochard says, you can't just pick up a camera and point it at a naked girl and expect the guy who buys porn to be impressed. Yes Steve did it, but I know him and he knows teen porn as well as any.

Ahh crap, is this really going to turn into your I am a great photographer and it must be perfect content monthly speach again?

I started with few bucks and 0 affiliates. :)



And I agree btw. :)

Congrats dude. I wish I had it in me to run paysites but I'm just not interested. Definately a good market to be in regardless of what's said on gfy. :winkwink:

thanks, I guess I'm just lucky :)


Im sure you have it in you, its fun. :)

The difference is you started with something and not from the ground up. It's like today, I can take a block of money, quickly buy content, open a site and 6 months later I'm making my money back, it's much much easier if you have cash and content. Even more so with the amount of updates you do.

When we started we took money from our own pockets, got the shoots done, programed our own aff software, paid for everything from our personal bank accounts and built it up from the ground up. It took us 6 months to pay us back and about another year for it to be a no worry product.


Another business that made it's return that fast?
Business as in porn, or the business niches in porn? We have many things that make a way faster return than paysites. Even non-adult stuff is much faster return than paysites..

Well tell me that crap product is the way to get rich and show me the people who do it that way.

I just told you I did it with $1000 in crappy ass filler content, a crappy ass tour, a $400 a month feed and hand coded html pages the actual traffic went to. It was 100% marketing, and at well over the standard paysite price.

Edit: A ton of the adult sites / programs online now are built around crap content.

I see a Tungsten discussion comin

We have a few feeder sites done like this, one in the program, if the price level is right they can retain better than full paysites and have a lower cb/refund ratio. Our's don't seem to convert as good, but I haven't tried playing with the design / join pages much.

self advertisement dude.. get it???

whatever. com

Well, the conversions were lower because I drove my own traffic and it wasn't SE / TGP or similar. There was a little twist on it that I don't want to mention here but I was just trying to make the point to Paul that content is not the be all and end all he makes it out to be.

So maybe you should give us a URL and if it does so well why not get some affiliates to give you more success.

Everyone tells me of the successes, but few point me to the sites.

I think the difference in this side of the porn business is the belief that you can get rich quick with no investment and little knowledge. Yes I started with both, but then this would be normal in other businesses.

By other businesses I meant totally other businesses.

As for traffic that was fairly easy, just need to be patient and pay the affiliates well. We now are paying 75% revshare as a promotion, the traffic is sky rocketing. Will be interesting to see what happens when we switch back to 60%.

Plus we do have other traffic sources most Internet sites don't have.

I'm looking but not having much luck :)

there you go giving the newbies false hope again..

Its as easy to make money in Porn as it is to be a actor or singer
you can make a few bucks here and there but its not easy to be a RockStar

See sig for help

Delusions of grandeur.

No it is not that hard. Most people are just that stupid. I have a feeling you know this though.

Oh God..Not ANOTHER Paul Markham "running a paysite wasn't as hard as I thought" thread

making a couple bucks with a paysite = easy. making millions of dollars after taxes and retiring in your 30's = not easy.

I think if I had started when you did it would of been easy.

My biggest mistake was not keeping going in 1997 when I opened my first site. But I was making a lot of money working one day a week shooting for magazines and never really thought it was worth the effort.

I told a friend, "Porn on the Internet will never catch on" :1orglaugh