religious people have low IQ levels
 

and on average have the mental capacity of an 8th grader...

this is the point of view my well educated friend has, I don't agree with him, nor am i religious. what are your thoughts?

Well I dunno about the 8th grade but I'd be willing to bet a few of them don't have their grade 10 yet.

And where do you get your stats from ?

I think this could be very true of fanatically religious people. But saying someone is ignorant or unintelligent based solely on spiritual beliefs is pretty shallow and quite ignorant in and of itself.

this is my friends overall opinion.. not fact

that sounds interesting..can be a good topic for research..

I'd say the opposite - as far as hypnotism is concerned, intelligent people are much more suggestible. Hypnotists, salesmen, organised religion and cult leaders all use similar methods to influence people.

not an 8th grader, but I would agree that ON AVERAGE their intelligence is lower

I think that the collective IQ of 5 rabbis > the collective IQ of 100 GFYers

im not even sure the average PERSON is smarter than 8th grade level.. so i certainly wouldnt go that far..

I think your "friend" is making alot of assumptions..

Most religious people i would think are being schooled, whereas the average earthling most likely isn't educated , certainly not 8th grade level educated..

I suppose it's all in what you mean by educated..

IQ is a strange test for evaluating how smart someone is.. ( even though thats what its there for )

i liketo come up with different scenario's to judge how "smart"someone is..

Toss 2 people n the woods with nothing but a knife , and see who makes it out.. :)

Using my scenario , your friends opinion miht be right ;)

as long as you meant rabbits :thumbsup :thumbsup

:1orglaugh

rabbi's are the ones sucking blood from penis's to "prefent" infection.

rabbits are the ones that eat ther babies.

I don't see any relation of religion to you being a smart ass.

I don't think you can lump them into a 'stupid' category. A lot of very intelligent people are fanatics. The only thing is I think the issue becomes one of security or lack thereof. These people need to feel they have something in store for them that makes their life meaningful. They are not secure enough in their own skin to believe they have everything they need for life.

The less secure a person is, the more necessary it is for them to find that thing that gives them that feeling of security. Hence, you have the most fucked up people preaching and being absolute fanatics.

it is a fact that in the USA in the last 40 years or so SAT test scores have been widely avail and composites have been published for entering freshmen at various colleges and universities.

it is interesting what sorts of schools and curriculums attract the LOWEST scoring freshmen.

guess.

lets see some stats!
im curious about this issue,
a couple things... im sure we can all agree that idiots and ignorant people come in all shapes races religions and sizes...and when talking about IQ i do believe we are talking about the ability to learn new things, not the knowledge already learned and retained.

there are dumb people in every aspect of life, sure there are idiots that are also religious nuts...but there again there are idiots that don't believe in religion too

I believe this is true. I also think what latinasojourn said is truthful, because religious fanatics shut themselves off to education. They reject science, they reject sociology and psychology, they reject personal accountability... and they put "faith in God" in their places. So if you ever talk to an extremely religious person about any of these things, let's take personal accountability for example... they'll blame their relationship problems on "I guess that's the way God wants it to be". Instead of "I made a mistake, I should learn from my mystakes and move on". If they key someone's car, they say it was "what God wanted them to do". If they kill people, it's the same thing.

So religious people remove all rational logic, and put "God" in it's place.

That is absolutely ignorant.

I believe that people who seek religion are looking for someone to lead them. Some of us are leaders, the rest are followers, so religion catches the attention (and cash) of those who wish to follow.

The problem is that the religious leaders get all hopped up on the high of having so many people listen to them that the power goes to their heads and they start telling people ridiculous things.

Intelligence is something you are born with and knowledge is something you acquire. The human memory capacity stops growing by age 13. The human brain isn't fully developed until age 25. And belief isn't fact. If someone believes pineapple Lifesavers taste better than lime ones, there are no facts to prove or disprove this belief, nor does intelligence have anything to do with it.

I am not religious, in fact I am anti organized religion. Personally, I believe most religions are used to brainwash, misguide, and control people. However, only an ignorant and uneducated person would claim that there is no God, higher being, aliens and/or anything of the sort. Science cannot prove there isn't a supreme being and people of faith can't prove that there is.

I agree that there are a lot of severely misinformed, naive people in the US and all over the world, but the same can be said about atheists or the human race in general.

religion = brainwashing

As Jesse Ventura said, "Religion is a crutch for the weakminded."

on average - yes, definately

Imagine the shit mankind would have already accomplished if so much time hadn't been wasted on faith.

and karl marx once said

"Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people."

Deists really have the right idea.

Karl Marx wrote (this is not verbatim) 'Religion is an opiate to control the masses and take away the fear of dying'.

My interpretation is that the weak are easy to lead, but has nothing to do with IQ. A lot of people of high IQ are indead weak in personality and can be led like the low IQ fools. Can't you see them in going to church, walking along looking at the ground, hoping the preacher is going to make their day better. Isn't if funny that the cars that are covered with religious messages and slogans are all old beat-ups and the occupants are losers.

Would you trust a person who told you that the cheque they are giving you is good because they are religious or church goers...hell no, they are telling you that you are about to be ripped off. They can go to church and repent the bad deed they did today (that's ripped you off) say a few hail mary's and they're away feeling good again.

Religion...Ugggggggh!

Lyn

I was going to add this line as this is one of my favorite quotes of all time and all so true.

Organized Religion keeps the masses in line and the oppressed remain oppressed as they seek the better life in the hereafter.

Once we finish discussing organized religion, the next question is: is there a God? This is a totally separate discussion from the merits of organized religion.

Matt

This would be my suspicion, I'd certainly be interested in reading a study that addressed the topic.

I beg to disagree with that. What are your bases? A sound and valid argument argument must be supported with factual premises.

Since my brother has become a born again Christian everything is Gods plan...

So I says to him, so is me being in the adult business!

So he says I should read, Left Behind.. So I do.. Great books man... Really cool!

But then I pointed out that I am supposed to make millions of dollars and fund the trading network for the believers with it... But thanks for letting me know that I am part of God's plan!

He doesn't think I got the message... But that is because religeous people have a lower IQ...

when my brother would do that id slap him everytime id see him to try to wake him up

I don't think they necessarily have lower IQs, just lower self-esteem

:2 cents:

bump for you...

Here you go:

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-thinkingchristians.htm

Oh and Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religio...d_intelligence

I would hardly put atheists in the 'ignorant' group. Not believing in something because there is absolutely no evidence of it is not analagous to believing in something because there is no evidence for it, but you feel it to be true.

I prefer the agnostic, "Maybe." stance.

Actually I know a few american indians that were raised on the reservation, and hunt with Bows and knives, and are in the church the minute the doors are open. So that kind of blows that one out of the water.

I think he's full of shit.
I think you are just trolling.

Einstein was religious. I guess he proves your 'friend' wrong :thumbsup

Einstein was activly Jewish but only to celebrate his culture. He did not believe in any higher power.

http://newyorkmetro.com/nymetro/news...78/index1.html


L'chayim!


:pimp

So I can take a very intelligent baby, keep it in a cave for 18 years and that 18 year old will pass any kind of IQ test with flying colors?

As with everything else external enviromental factors play muchj greater role than genes (genetic predisposition) IMO.

No, I'm saying some atheists are ignorant, just like some religious people are ignorant. It has nothing to do with their beliefs.

Survival skills doesnt mean you are intelligent....

someone who lived in a small shack in the wood all his life will probably survive better in the wood than Stephen Hawkins...but I guarantee you that Hawkins is smarter...

There's no ultimate and precise way to measure out how someone is intelligent...but I think the ability to learn easily and understand new concepts is great sign of a smart person...

You have 2 cars, both are able to reach the speed of 60MPH. Car A reaches 60MPH 3 times faster than car B and remembers where your seating position lies, because it was designed and built that way. Compare this to the human mind. Some people learn, understand, and recall things faster and/or more accurately than others.

Exactly...this, IMHO, is a good demonstration of intelligence...kinda sums up what I was trying to say in my post

Wrong. He believed fully in God. As a matter of fact, he believed God and science could co-exist much like ID.

Highly religious school districts generally have lower scores then school districts that take religion less seriously. The mind needs to be exercised or it looses its ability to perform. Science education pushes you to keep asking questions and thinking. Religion requires you to stop asking question and accept blind faith. The two are in great conflict with each other.

Compare the religion levels, education and intelligence levels of some southern states with those in the north and you will find a very simple pattern that's hard to deny.

It's simply because highly religious minds are bent into believing 'facts' which are in fact total horseshit. Then the mind cannot understand true facts and begins to be incorrect about non-religious matters, yet blindly believe they are true.

Ok.